- 18,922
- 13,943
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
-
- Tags
- one piece
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Not at all, Marco disproves his kick working in this very panel. Marco is close to Kizaru, though.
Definitely equal with kizaru
WrongIdea21
He/Him- 4,089
- 2,153
Marco send Kizaru Away, Marco Damaging Kuzan, Also Akainu too but Somehow Akainu can Resist His Haki.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Sending someone away doesn't mean you're evenly matched.
He never seriously damaged Kuzan, and damaging alone is not evidence for equal AP, just approximate.
Akainu likely used the "Katakuri strat" to avoid damage.
- 18,922
- 13,943
It's literally stated in the Databook he has the power to fight the admirals (I think)
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
And he does, hence why he is 6-B, lmao.
You're mistaking "not equal" with "Absolute fodder".
Marco is strong as shit, and his power is more than enough to fight an Admiral, but still, individually, he is not equal to an Admiral. To exemplify my point, if Marco were to fight Akainu, for example, Akainu would most likely win, but not before being crippled too.
- 18,922
- 13,943
Akainu is much different from kizaru... Akainu is shown as the strongest admiral and is now fleet admiral
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Akainu = Aokiji. If Kizaru is the weaker link for... any reason? Then the Databook statement would make no sense.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Just realized, this has nothing to do with Wano, let's cease this.
- 18,922
- 13,943
Eminiteable
He/Him- 7,401
- 6,631
And either way you're wrong about Enma drawing out conqueor's, and that attack itself had no evidence of conqueor's coating due to the lack of lightning trails.
That attack should be comparable to the Tatsumaki he performed later which overpowered Kaido's attack and cut his scales, even if attacks on that level aren't a major risk to Kaido Big Mom seemingly thinks they're worth dodging, which may be more indicative that she viewed the attack as a risk compared to herself.
Zoro's AP can't be above Base Kaido because he didn't 1v1 him? When did him or any of the rooftop supernova get the opportunity to 1v1 Base Kaidou when there's 2 Yonko and 4 other Supernova who were all trying to defeat him, not to mention the fact he immediately transformed in the first chapter of fighting.
Last edited:
- 3,317
- 2,719
One Piece characters for the most part (and especially humans) don't have passive durability, which is why people get hurt by bullets when they have no business getting hurt by bullets. Not to mention, it was a gag
- 3,317
- 2,719
Morgan did nothing to Garp (literally didn't even wake him up) whereas Kaido badly affected Oden
- 4,781
- 7,395
There's no translated source of it around, strangely enough. I found the french one a while ago and translated it on this thread.
But also yeah, I think it was going to be accepted as limited biological manipulation via severing the cells on such a high level that even after a WHILE, the boar could still be reattached, or something like that.
There's no way they reattached that boar minutes after when they were saving the people and all around- also the factor of the fact that there's no technology in wano capable of reattaching blood arteries, veins, muscle tissue, etc- it just implies that the cut was so beyond perfect that you could just REATTACH the thing with regular stitches, similiar to Law's room almost. But less, since Law doesn't require stitching and all that.
- 4,781
- 7,395
Not yet. They're working on the God tiers in the post timeskip thread. Once that's applied they'll move on to speed.
WB'S 30+ TT and the new 62 TT calcs will be added soon enough.
Those are still things that are being used in BASE. Luffy's round 2 with Kaido, despite already having Ryuou and Haoshoku, was still ended too early with Luffy knocked out because he wasn't strong enough.
Round 3 Luffy is just stronger physically and that's why he can handle Kaido up close now. If Luffy had Ryuou and Haoshoku coating and was as strong as he was in Dressrosa, would you still say he's only THIS strong because of Haoshoku and Ryuou, despite the fact that that exact same factor on round 2 didn't matter one bit because he got KO'd and called weak by Kaido anyway?
Luffy's matching Kaido PHYSICALLY. CoC Coating is only to leave lasting damage on Kaido. (Similiar to how Kaido kmplied only CoC could scar him based on the Ashura showing). If Luffy's physical attributes increase, then his current value based on the fact that he's fighting mano e mano against Hybrid Kaido would be multiplied by whatever G4's multiplier is.
The ONLY way this could get disproven is if Kaido himself stays in hybrid and still handles G4, then it'd show that Ryuou and Hao are the only thing holding Luffy's fight up 'till now. But if Kaido has to power up to match G4 Luffy, then there's no doubt he got stronger between fighting Hybrid in base vs in G4.
Also the fact that even after mastering Ryuou, Luffy in base did little to Dragon Kaido in round 1, yet he goes Gear Fourth and Kidd suddenly comments on how much stronger he got and that he can damage Kaido. Clearly his physical factor matters. Adding to that is the fact that G4 itself has been hyped up by Luffy FOR ITS HAKI, even saying Boundman wouldn't lose to Katakuri's block Mochi when it's down to armament during their fight. Restricting Luffy's physical value this heavily based on very little evidence for it and more than enough AGAINST it is a little absurd.
- 4,988
- 3,781
What BB's calc that is over 30TT?
- 4,781
- 7,395
WB, not BB. The feat where he yelled and tilted the oceans I believe.
- 18,729
- 12,988
I thought that was 12 teratons.
- 4,988
- 3,781
Ah I think I recall that one. I think I added it when I updated the verse's Calculation Section:
One Piece
For detailed information about this series from the One Piece Wiki you can click here. One Piece is the world's most popular manga series of all time.[1] It is published in Shonen Jump and is written and drawn by Eiichiro Oda. It is an Action Adventure story about Monkey D. Luffy, a pirate who...
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 361
- 238
Doing this Bs again, but I'll add another feat to it to be on the safe side
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 4,781
- 7,395
It's by KT. If I recall correctly-Ah I think I recall that one. I think I added it when I updated the verse's Calculation Section:
One Piece
For detailed information about this series from the One Piece Wiki you can click here. One Piece is the world's most popular manga series of all time.[1] It is published in Shonen Jump and is written and drawn by Eiichiro Oda. It is an Action Adventure story about Monkey D. Luffy, a pirate who...
Yeah, that one!Doing this Bs again, but I'll add another feat to it to be on the safe side
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Oh boy...
Luffy's Haki wasn't strong enough, yes.
Or Kaido is weaker?
Or Luffy's Haki grew stronger?
Or any other reason?
Kaido stated his use of Haoshoku was poor, not that he was weak. And he wouldn't be this strong in Dressrosa because his Haki was mid, but his Haoshoku Coating would still allow for him to hurt Kaido regardless.
He isn't.
G4 only multiplies impact based on spring-based abilities. Physical impact.
It does make his Haki stronger, but the multiplier does not apply to THAT. It's a multiplier that comes from the impact, the Haki amp is unquantifiable
Luffy used G4 multiple times in his battle with Kaido, lmao.
That's false? Base Luffy never attacked Dragon Kaido during Round 1.
Chapter 1000, and 1001:
- Base Luffy punches Base Kaido with G3 Ryou, Kaido states that shit damaged him.
- G4 Luffy punches Base Kaido in the gut, and no major reaction is given, he even laughs it off, unlikely if it was really 4x stronger.
- G4 Luffy punches Kaido with Rifle, and Rhino. No major reaction.
- Kong Gatling makes D. Kaido go "Gaah!"
- Luffy is beating the shit out of Kaido with Ryou, and Kidd comments it might do full damage.
I already conceded that it does make his Haki stronger, but not necessarily by 4x.
It's physical force + ryou = 62 Teratons
Ryou contributes to the majority of this value.
G4 makes it 4x physical force + amped ryou, not necessarily a 4x the actual value.
- 4,781
- 7,395
No indication whatsoever that that's the case. When Luffy's haki gets stronger it ALWAYS gets commented on. VS Katakuri he boasted his armament is stronger with G4. When Kaido's haki got stronger Luffy said so. Luffy's usage of Ryou/CoC in round 2 is the exact same as it is now, only his base is fighting better than before.
Can't be. Kaido himself said he wouldn't weaken himself this fight when drinking.
Again, no indication whatsoever that his haki changed between R2 and R3. Only the fact that he's physically able to fight Kaido now.
It amplifies ARMAMENT. Luffy himself said so. His regular coating becommes strong enough to where it's consistently tanking attacks on a similiar scale to what G4 dishes out.
He used it in round 1 where he was marginally weaker and couldn't tank a ragnarok. Now he can.
He didn't use it in round 2.
In round 3 he used Snakeman once and it sent Kaido flying back. Admittedly it was done with Yamato's own attack, but still.
Yeah, no, I meant Zoan in general, not only Dragon. He got KO'D by Ragnarok in round 1 and made Kaido disappointed than anything.
Regardless of that, that same Luffy throughout both rounds got knocked out by Kaido's Ragnarok, then after unlocky CoC Infusion got knocked out again after not too long.
Luffy CURRENTLY is PHYSICALLY taking the attack that knocked him out cold during round 1, and from the same Hybrid Kaido that knocked him out again in round 2, AFTER he started using CoC infusion.
The issue is the fact that he is also TANKING attacks from a character of equal value. If not greater, as Luffy said Kaido's Haki became stronger when he took the Lightning Hammered Ragnarok. You don't use CoC Infusion for defense passively, at least it wasn't shown. Luffy had to hold his hand out to use the barrier and block Kaido's swings on that same chapter. And Ryuou is dura neg- that shouldn't add any kind of value since it doesn't bypass defenses directly like AP.
If Ryuou doesn't add to the value, and CoC infusion has been proven to hit harder when Luffy uses greater techniques (Roc gun sends Kaido flying when he's fully on guard, whereas the regular physical attacks of base Luffy damage him but don't force him on his back), then the only thing left is the fact that Luffy can tank attacks equal to his own value without usage of Ryuou barriers or armament.
There's always the argument of "he's rubber and can take more than what he can dish out", but at the same time Kaido was using CoC infusion in his own attack as well.
Still, arguing this now might be too early- I say it's best we wait and see if Luffy goes G4 and if Kaido can still keep up in base. If that's the case, then G4 isn't a higher value. If Kaido is shown needing to transform or use awakening, then G4 is definitely a physical amp to the usual value. There's a reason why I wanted to bring this up AFTER Luffy vs Kaido is done and not now >>
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
It's possible.
He wouldn't weaken himself from Drinking.
He is brutally damaged at this point.
He isn't. He is using Haki with every attack.
The rest of your points don't really address the multiplier, so let's go.
Yes, it amplifies armament. It is in no shape way or form related to the 4 times impact multiplier, therefore it doesn't matter.
- 4,781
- 7,395
Would you say Luffy's current base+CoC Infusion is stronger than Kaido, then? If they're equal, and Luffy is tanking an empowered attack from Kaido right to the face, then is that not him taking equal (if not greater due to the attack being stronger) value to his own? G4 is still an overall PHYSICAL amp. It tanks harder hits, and attacks that aren't spring-loaded can shatter a cracker soldier when even G3 couldn't. It proves that G4's regular attacks are still>G3>Base=Hybrid Kaido's stronger empowered attacks
It's less about fully offense and about just physical capability. If he can tank an attack that matches his attacks' value, then his body has to be equal to that value even without the addition of Haki. Ryuou's whole point was dura neg, and CoC Infusion's point is leaving perma-damage on Kaido.
Last edited:
- 11,973
- 16,632
The thing is, Haki blooming mid-battle is a canonical concept that's been explored in the series for a while now, especially during these past couple of arcs. So I'd say Luffy's Haki being the thing that's getting powered up throughout the course of this fight is the most likely interpretation.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Keep your text 20 words or less, geez.Would you say Luffy's current base+CoC Infusion is stronger than Kaido, then? If they're equal, and Luffy is tanking an empowered attack from Kaido right to the face, then is that not him taking equal (if not greater due to the attack being stronger) value to his own? G4 is still an overall PHYSICAL amp. It tanks harder hits, and attacks that aren't spring-loaded can shatter a cracker soldier when even G3 couldn't. It proves that G4's regular attacksURA are still>G3>Base=Hybrid Kaido's stronger empowered attacks
It's less about fully offense and about just physical capability. If he can tank an attack that matches his attacks' value, then his body has to be equal to that value even without the addition of Haki. Ryuou's whole point was dura neg, and CoC Infusion's point is leaving perma-damage on Kaido.
Base = Hybrid Kaido is incorrect. Kaido is clearly stronger, Luffy lost twice already.
Base Luffy is probably slightly below Hybrid Kaido, and his G4 more than makes up for it. My only problem would be multiplying 62 TTs by 4.
- 4,128
- 4,350
saitama reference
- 11,869
- 11,231
It proves that G4's regular attacks
- 4,781
- 7,395
So, it's more or less the fact that it's weird than anything. That I can agree with- I just like playing the devil's advocate
- 4,781
- 7,395
Don't
I don't know why that's there
- 18,922
- 13,943
Be grateful 
idk
idk
WrongIdea21
He/Him- 4,089
- 2,153
Base Luffy < Hybrid Kaido
Gear3 = Hybrid Kaido
Gear4 > Hybrid Kaido
makes more and Alot of Sense to me.
GodlyCharmander
He/Him- 5,744
- 4,998
Agreed.
- 6,635
- 6,821
- 4,128
- 4,350
that is the forbidden gear that we do not speak of.
- 6,635
- 6,821
