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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph

Eseseso said:
I have a bit of a confession to make...

While I have ZERO plans to make any CRT's related to this, I do kinda think that Zoan Queen should be scaling to the same "Yonko" value of AP/Dura as people like King and Marco.

1. He's repeatedly portrayed as comparable to King, whether in combat against Sanji and Zoro alongside King or when he and King both talk down to Jack. Or when Zoro said Zoan Queen and King would both be tough to get through in order to make it to the roof.

2. He took a Big Mom beatdown and got up shortly after with minor injuries.

3. Yes, he got hurt by Marco's attack, but in the long run he was fine all things considered. His Base does downscale (since a Marco attack sent him flying like a doofus), but his Base took it way better (especially since that same shockwave attack also made King bleed a bit due to dura neg).

4. I still think he should scale above Apoo's DF in his Zoan form (since we can safely assume that when he threatened to kill Apoo he was referring to his Zoan power).

5. Sanji temporarily fought King and Queen off-screen in a 2v1, and while he got overpowered, this still means he took some off-screen hits from King. Queen hurt Sanji in his Zoan form, meaning he'd scale.


Of course, he's far below Big Mom due to being terrified of her, and this would only apply to his Zoan form and not his base (since as mentioned his base was sent flying by Marco's single kick), but he still should scale to the value of, say, Ace level.

I'm not making a CRT on this since a previous one about some of these got rejected, but just had to get this one off my chest.

If Zoan Queen did scale to this, however, Onigashima Sanji would only scale with Diable Jambe, though Post-Exoskeleton Sanji would just scale period.

Zoan Queen's AP would scale to matching DJ Sanji, who can hurt him, and due to his Zoan form being repeatedly portrayed as at least comparable to King's Base w/ sword. Not to mention, Sanji def took at least some off-screen hits from Base King during that off-screen 2v1 where King and Queen overpowered him, so Zoan Queen would scale to that.

MP Chopper, however, would still be Scabbard level due to Queen toying with him for the entire off-screen fight asides from that first punch.

As for Base Onigashima Sanji's AP, while he did somewhat match blows from Hybrid Queen without DJ, he was clearly struggling and was getting overpowered and pushed back until Diable Jambe turned the fight around in his favor. As for him kicking Hybrid Queen in the mouth, he kicked an area with no Zoan scales, so it'd be no different from kicking Base Queen (who is Scabbard+ level via scaling above Jack and the Scabbards and downscaling from Marco's kick).

As mentioned twice before, I'm not making a CRT, these are just my thoughts.
Click to expand...
I love you brother.
 
Kachon123 said:
I love you brother.
Click to expand...
Don't get too happy.

I still don't think Sanji casually melts all the Yonko tiers with Ifrit Jambe's heat.

But yeah, Sanji is repeatedly portrayed as being 80-90% of Zoro's level. And Queen is constantly portrayed as =< King, although of course King is above him thanks to the WoG statement.
 
On another note, I was thinking that if the exaton shiki calcs ever get removed, it's likely that the God Tiers will scale to WB's 390.79 teraton Kaishin.

If that ever happens, we can just backscale the Scabbard tiers to baseline High 6-B (which is 100 teratons).
 
Kachon123 said:
Heat resistance
Click to expand...
1. Even Zoro got hurt by those things

2. His mega-dragon attack (the one Zoro cut through) could do massive damage considering King thought it'd kill Zoro despite seeing Zoro's max power,
Kachon123 said:
Queen can definitely grab King with Winch Queen when King turns his flames back on and use pressure to crush him.
Click to expand...
1. King went FTE to Zoro, who reacted to the Yonko, who scale above Queen's speed. Ain't no way Queen reacts to that.

2. King could break out like Sanji did for sure.
 
Eseseso said:
1. Even Zoro got hurt by those things
Click to expand...
Yeah by the force of the attack. I'm saying that the fire wouldn't add anything special due to King's heat resistance.
Eseseso said:
2. His mega-dragon attack (the one Zoro cut through) could do massive damage considering King thought it'd kill Zoro despite seeing Zoro's max power,
Click to expand...
That's if King would be able to detect invisible Queen
Eseseso said:
1. King went FTE to Zoro, who reacted to the Yonko, who scale above Queen's speed. Ain't no way Queen reacts to that.
Click to expand...
I said flame on King.
Eseseso said:
2. King could break out like Sanji did for sure.
Click to expand...
Doubt it.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Him going invisible didn't work on Sanji how do you think it'd work on an opponent with considerably better stats than Sanji?
Click to expand...
Because King doens't have as good observation haki as Sanji what?

Also, King having better stats than Sanji is based on?
 
Kachon123 said:
Because King doens't have as good observation haki as Sanji what?

Also, King having better stats than Sanji is based on?
Click to expand...
King could sense Zoro's power iirc.
He could also see the sheer power in his KOH attack and was shocked when he used it.
Not to mention he almost blitzed Zoro despite him having good Observation as well.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
King could sense Zoro's power iirc.
He could also see the sheer power in his KOH attack and was shocked when he used it.
Not to mention he almost blitzed Zoro despite him having good Observation as well.
Click to expand...
This isn't telling me how that's helping him sense invisible Queen
 
Like you could at least say he would go for AoE attacks which is valid, but saying that he would be able to track Queen's movements is baseless.
 
Invisible nimble sanji who's already shown proficiency in stealth vs invisible big ass dinosaur man thumping around
Invisible Queen's probably not the best idea whatsoever in a 1 on 1 unless he stays still
 
SnookB said:
Invisible nimble sanji who's already shown proficiency in stealth vs invisible big ass dinosaur man thumping around
Invisible Queen's probably not the best idea whatsoever in a 1 on 1 unless he stays still
Click to expand...
Yeah but that still makes it 100x easier to land hits such as his brachio launchers, germa enhanced dura neg attacks, brachiosnakus, and more.
 
Kachon123 said:
Multiple Kenbun users have been faced against invisible opponents and haven't been able to spot them. What'd be different here?
Click to expand...
Yeah which is how Absalom got clapped by Blackbeard's crew right.
Hell, even pre ts when Sanji had no Observation he could defeat someone who's main gimmick was going invisible.
 
King:

  • Far stronger than Base Queen, and has a definite AP advantage over Zoan Queen with his zoan form
  • Easily faster, which his Zoan form and no-flames can amp
  • Durability is broken AF
  • If he is grabbed or put in Brachio-Snake, his explosion can one-shot Queen
  • Far more serious and less likely to be distracted
  • Flames are a much better source of ranged attack than Lasers and rockets
  • Definitely better buso haki


Queen:

  • Lasers Dura neg (if they even manage to hit)
  • Can narrow the AP gap somewhat with Vinsmoke powers, but probably can't get the edge in AP
 
Eseseso said:
King:

  • Far stronger than Base Queen, and has a definite AP advantage over Zoan Queen with his zoan form
  • Easily faster, which his Zoan form and no-flames can amp
  • Durability is broken AF
  • If he is grabbed or put in Brachio-Snake, his explosion can one-shot Queen
  • Far more serious and less likely to be distracted
  • Flames are a much better source of ranged attack than Lasers and rockets
  • Definitely better buso haki


Queen:

  • Lasers Dura neg (if they even manage to hit)
  • Can narrow the AP gap somewhat with Vinsmoke powers, but probably can't get the edge in AP
Click to expand...
Also, you know, King is blatantly stated to be stronger than Queen and second only to Kaidou
 
Eseseso said:
King:

  • Far stronger than Base Queen, and has a definite AP advantage over Zoan Queen with his zoan form
  • Easily faster, which his Zoan form and no-flames can amp
  • Durability is broken AF
  • If he is grabbed or put in Brachio-Snake, his explosion can one-shot Queen
  • Far more serious and less likely to be distracted
  • Flames are a much better source of ranged attack than Lasers and rockets
  • Definitely better buso haki


Queen:

  • Lasers Dura neg (if they even manage to hit)
  • Can narrow the AP gap somewhat with Vinsmoke powers, but probably can't get the edge in AP
Click to expand...
We all know who really wins though.
 
Eseseso said:
I'm waiting until base/Hybrid Lucci gets upgraded to high 6-A so that it doesn't have to immediately start with Awakened Lucci.
Click to expand...
Then the match will never happen
3324_petercry.png
 
I find it genuinely funny that we can barely do any Lucci matches right now, perhaps Kaku will prevail and gain a H6A key and bless us with a few matches.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Yeah which is how Absalom got clapped by Blackbeard's crew right.
Hell, even pre ts when Sanji had no Observation he could defeat someone who's main gimmick was going invisible.
Click to expand...
Doffy couldn't sense Absalom
Page One couldn't sense Sanji
King and Queen couldn't sense Sanji
 
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