- 4,781
- 7,395
I should've clarified when I said "fandom", I meant the community not the wiki
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
-
- Tags
- one piece
- 31,404
- 27,702
Ah, okay.
WrongIdea21
He/Him- 4,089
- 2,153
I'll just call them by their Name.
- 106
- 95
The paradox, if i think yamato is hot then I'm gay.... therefore my heterosexual status is gone, i will invent a new gender for me nglWell fandom is corrupt
Not calling a Yamato a man can get you banned from Fandom globally apparently...
Not gonna lie, that's some dictatorship stuff
- 39,679
- 15,608
I already called this for so long, it such a missed opportunity of Oda doesn't do it
I also want Catarina mirroring what Tamamo no Mae did in the legend (like for example made a powerful kingdom fell due of her deceive/seduce)
- 19,386
- 17,001
"When in Rome, do as the Romans do," I guess.
- 4,128
- 4,350
Im not even gonna argue but lol…
You can have a different opinion but if you express it ur a goner.
️
- 31,404
- 27,702
Yes. I'm not going to tell you what to believe about characters; but Fandom has rules about you can say on its platform. I also understand that from the perspective of many it's an ambiguous situation but if someone is deliberately posting in bad faith then Fandom has the right to take action against them.
- 4,128
- 4,350
Well that’s when this all goes to shit cuz they dgaf about bad faith, any misgendering, basically regardless of the context is a ban.
quoted from the post:
“To be completely clear, using anything besides he/him pronouns in reference to Yamato will be considered misgendering and will result in local wiki and global bans…I can say with confidence now, though, that he/him pronouns must be used in reference to Yamato, for this wiki to meet Fandom's standards of respect and inclusivity.”
Edit: like im not going to deny that the fandom has rules, cuz u know, obviously...but that doesn't deny that the rule is shit or an absolute rule, that if anything, ignores and contradicts the entire meaning to the inclusion that they "aim" to achieve.
Last edited:
- 15,442
- 15,410
The issue is Yamato’s gender is not a done deal at all… And even then, it’s literally a gag… Yamato’s gender is literally treated as a meme constantly, that’s why Oda has Momo, Brook, and Sanji fawning over her
To suggest that calling a fictional character a different gender from the perceived gender of the staff member is BULLYING
That is ******* corrupt as hell. If I make fun of Sanji and call him a trash character for being dumb against women, I wouldn’t get banned would I? But that’s arguably a worse form of “bullying”. You can’t ******* bully a fictional character cause they’re not ******* real. But to suggest you will get GOBALLY BANNED because you don’t consider Yamato a man is jus horrendous
Like this is pretty shit… I’m not allowed to believe what I want to believe or practice my free speech because the higher ups on Fandom have made an executive decision on something that is far from concrete
- 31,404
- 27,702
Nobody said you're not allowed to believe what you want... but I don't think Fandom has ever declared itself to have unrestricted free speech on its platform. People aren't allowed to say literally anything they want to.
And in this case, I think it is partially motivated by an attempt to reduce the normalization of misgendering characters and create a safer environment for those minorities such as trans people. I'm not trans myself and can't speak for their experience, but if you have people discussing a character on the wiki and saying "Oh, this character isn't really this other gender because it's just in their head and they're making it up" then that I could see how it could impact them.
I don't think that Yamato is a traditional trans character like Kiku, I think it's more complicated than that, but I believe the community consensus on the OP Wiki was going to be changing Yamato's profile over to male anyway. Fandom just jumped the gun because at some point, these kinds of decisions are too sensitive to let them be truly democratic. And for a wiki, not all decisions about what goes in the page should be democratic.
Not saying you're wrong to believe whatever you want about Yamato; but the wiki can't cater to everybody or satisfy all points of view.
And in this case, I think it is partially motivated by an attempt to reduce the normalization of misgendering characters and create a safer environment for those minorities such as trans people. I'm not trans myself and can't speak for their experience, but if you have people discussing a character on the wiki and saying "Oh, this character isn't really this other gender because it's just in their head and they're making it up" then that I could see how it could impact them.
I don't think that Yamato is a traditional trans character like Kiku, I think it's more complicated than that, but I believe the community consensus on the OP Wiki was going to be changing Yamato's profile over to male anyway. Fandom just jumped the gun because at some point, these kinds of decisions are too sensitive to let them be truly democratic. And for a wiki, not all decisions about what goes in the page should be democratic.
Not saying you're wrong to believe whatever you want about Yamato; but the wiki can't cater to everybody or satisfy all points of view.
- 15,442
- 15,410
The suggestion that you will get banned for it is my real concern
If they just said “We’ll be addressing Yamato as a man”, I’d be ok with it. I still wouldn’t agree with that conclusion as I think it’s far too vague to make that declaration. But hey, I wouldn’t really care as I agree it’s open to interpretation and I don’t give a **** as to what other people call her
But they basically said you have to refer to Yamato as such or it will be bullying and therefore you get banned globally… With no amount of lenience
That is pure corruption right there
- 12,306
- 11,259
Yeah, this does sound a bit... extreme, to say the least.
- 4,128
- 4,350
but ur not...hence the must...
free speech in the context of preferred usage, you know...ur kinda stretching it with the decleration of free speech...
inclusion is fine and should be welcomed, but forced inclusion to exclude others is quite contradicting...
yeah so at the end of the day, satisfy those u can.
- 4,128
- 4,350
i mean nothing's spiraling, just a civil conversation.
- 15,442
- 15,410
I've spoken my piece, I'm just concerned about how the OP Wiki handled this and am afraid Vs Battles Wiki will handle it this way as well
I don't wanna be banned for considering Yamato a female...
I don't wanna be banned for considering Yamato a female...
- 31,404
- 27,702
Well, for Yamato's page I'm fairly sure we'll end up putting:
Explanatory notes like that should suffice, much like for Orochimaru's profile we put:
I don't see the need for any controversy over that.
Explanatory notes like that should suffice, much like for Orochimaru's profile we put:
I don't see the need for any controversy over that.
- 4,781
- 7,395
I laughed harder than I should've I'm sorry for your suffering
- 4,781
- 7,395
Orochimaru's gender is "yes"
- 15,442
- 15,410
- 31,404
- 27,702
Not to sound defeatist but there won't be a "Gender debate". If it has been decided for the OP wiki, then it has been decided for our wiki too.
- 21,470
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #6,584
People won't argue over Ivankov and Bon Clay but they'll argue for Yamato.
I'm ctfu
Anyways cease this convo. We still count as fandom and we still follow their rules on this forum.
Let's not get banned over accidents. Agree or not, just ignore it.
I'm ctfu
Anyways cease this convo. We still count as fandom and we still follow their rules on this forum.
Let's not get banned over accidents. Agree or not, just ignore it.
- 15,442
- 15,410
Well ok then
Kazuma_kuwabara
He/Him- 4,869
- 2,305
Share the world, my final message, goodbye
- 3,562
- 641
Can we not just use they/them?Well fandom is corrupt
Not calling a Yamato a man can get you banned from Fandom globally apparently...
Not gonna lie, that's some dictatorship stuff
- 19,386
- 17,001
Kazuma_kuwabara
He/Him- 4,869
- 2,305
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/DPEvF8l9LDM You have not seen this meme?Uh?
- 19,386
- 17,001
- 18,628
- 12,901
- 21,470
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #6,592
Wait a damn minute.
We aren't the OP wiki.
We disagree with a shit ton of stuff the OP wiki says all the time. When did they become the end all be all for One Piece discussions here?
If you want to call Yamato a male on our wiki because fandom wanted to just ignore the views of everyone else, then whatever.
But don't do it because the OP wiki, who we share like 2 opinions with, said so.
- 31,404
- 27,702
@KingTempest; I didn't mean because the One Piece Wiki decided so. I meant because Fandom decided it for the One Piece Wiki, which means it would apply to all wikis on Fandom since I doubt they're going to selectively enforce their rules just for a single wiki.
- 15,442
- 15,410
- 21,470
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #6,595
That's headass.
From this point on
vsbattles.fandom.com
vsbattles.fandom.com
We're going to give these 2 female pronouns, and replace the "Okama King" with "Okama Queen" like Ivankov usually does. I'm surprised they haven't tackled that and they still use male pronouns for every single Okama.
We're also going to add on "Yamato, also known as Kozuki Oden, is the son of Kaidou and the father of Momonosuke" on Yamato's profile.
It's clear that Fandom wants to agree with Yamato's pronouns but not Yamato's delusions, in order to please a handful of people, which is although noble, wrong and unfair.
This is just the enforcement of beliefs all over again.
We put the gender identity and we put the character identity as well. I'm not asking, I'm saying.
From this point on
Emporio Ivankov
Miracles only happen to people who never give up!Emporio Ivankov Emporio Ivankov is known as the "Okama King", and is one of the leaders of the Revolutionary Army headed by Monkey D. Dragon. He was introduced as an vanished prisoner of Impel Down, hiding with other "vanished" inmates who were...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Bentham (Mr. 2 Bon Clay)
Bentham, also known by his epithet "Bentham of the Wild" and his alias Mr. 2 Bon Clay, is a former officer agent of Baroque Works and an okama (a Japanese slang term for a transvestite). Strangely enough, he was the only higher up member that lacks a female partner of the same rank. Possibly due...
vsbattles.fandom.com
We're going to give these 2 female pronouns, and replace the "Okama King" with "Okama Queen" like Ivankov usually does. I'm surprised they haven't tackled that and they still use male pronouns for every single Okama.
We're also going to add on "Yamato, also known as Kozuki Oden, is the son of Kaidou and the father of Momonosuke" on Yamato's profile.
It's clear that Fandom wants to agree with Yamato's pronouns but not Yamato's delusions, in order to please a handful of people, which is although noble, wrong and unfair.
This is just the enforcement of beliefs all over again.
We put the gender identity and we put the character identity as well. I'm not asking, I'm saying.
- 31,404
- 27,702
Yamato's page has an expanded section on Gender to cover the various details. Don't think it's quite as simple as "They're just wrong".
- 21,470
- 30,790
- Thread starter
- #6,597
Ykw lemme just shut up before I get in trouble.
It's clear now that it's actually a dictatorship.
Don't get me wrong I have no issue with addressing Yamato as a him, just needs practice since I usually don't do it.
I just don't agree with how fandom's enforcing it and ignoring all context.
It's clear now that it's actually a dictatorship.
Don't get me wrong I have no issue with addressing Yamato as a him, just needs practice since I usually don't do it.
I just don't agree with how fandom's enforcing it and ignoring all context.
- 31,404
- 27,702
To be fair, I don't think Fandom has ever not been a dictatorship. Fandom has always had the final say on what content they host on their wikis. I was disappointed to learn that Fandom doesn't permit explicitly adult content on their wikis after a policy change a few years ago and some images have to be censored to be displayed on some pages, but it is what it is and it's their platform.
- 15,442
- 15,410
I genuinely don't want to offend anyone and want to make people feel welcome. I refer to Kiku as female and always have. I respect that because it is clear as **** as to what Oda is saying... But Yamato is literally a jummbled mess of things, the narration and Vivre Card very clearly call Yamato female, but then people call Yamato Kaidou's son and a man. But then Yamato says that it's because they are Oden and Oden is a man, and Oden would bath with the men... Like it is a shit storm of ideas that aren't clear. Yamato also calls themselves Momonosuke's father... Should we include that on their profile? Like what is the line here... I don't 100% know if Yamato is a female who's just calling themselves Oden, whether they are gender fluid, whether they are trans, or something else entirely... I've heard some people say well "Oh that stuff's outdated and Oda clearly changed his mind", but that isn't confirmed, so like why is it being made an executive decision?
This'll be my last comment on the subject as I have already given my stance on them several times and I don't wanna beat a dead horse. Sorry in general for this everyone, I know you don't wanna hear some nerd's ramblings about gender. I just needed to vent my fears because I am genuinely scared of being unjusticely banned because I don't call a fictional character a specific gender. That really hurts my opinion of fandom as a whole because as most of you know, I genuinely love Yamato a ton and want to see them become a Straw Hat. Like I am a big fan of their character, so whenever I call Yamato a female, I don't mean to put Yamato down.
Yeah, so once again, sorry for rambling and I'll drop the subject
This'll be my last comment on the subject as I have already given my stance on them several times and I don't wanna beat a dead horse. Sorry in general for this everyone, I know you don't wanna hear some nerd's ramblings about gender. I just needed to vent my fears because I am genuinely scared of being unjusticely banned because I don't call a fictional character a specific gender. That really hurts my opinion of fandom as a whole because as most of you know, I genuinely love Yamato a ton and want to see them become a Straw Hat. Like I am a big fan of their character, so whenever I call Yamato a female, I don't mean to put Yamato down.
Yeah, so once again, sorry for rambling and I'll drop the subject
