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One Piece General Discussion: Elbaph
- Thread starter KingTempest
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- one piece
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W pookie piece
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As if Oda doesn't draw the insane detailed colorspreads
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Well, stronger than old and dying Roger. He is supposed to be the most wanted man in the world, so I thought that he would be Yonkou level, not admiral level. But maybe he has gotten stronger since then?
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Okay. Nevermind then, as you said.
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he definitely should've gotten stronger... But Whitebeard in marineford while old, having already been fatally damaged and ganged up on, was still able to completely overpower the strongest admiral... Roger is as strong if not stronger, Dragon could still be easily above admirals even if he's under old, dying Roger
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Well, I hope that he is at least comparable to his father Garp in his prime.
tough thing to accomplish... I mean like I'm going to assume not even luffy is prime garp/roger yet in gear 5... Shanks's divine departure technique, which is a technique of Roger, one shot kid who was able to take alot of damage from yonko big momDragon being around kaido lvl or a little above is a fine placement I feel like, I can't see him with Prime Roger, Whitebeard and Garp... Especially when he never actually fights many battles (Well from what we know)
Even old garp is above admiral tier tho
I see Dragon more of a fast, haxy and tactical fighter than a brawler... We'll see in the future tho
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The combination of Batman and Superman in my eyesWell, I hope for the best, as Dragon may be the most purely heroic character in the One Piece story along with Kuma.
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It fooled me with it being from the official Twitter account,but it’s a fan list
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Luffy has been a huge outlier tho, being the youngest emperor ever if I remember correctlyWell, considering how strong Luffy already is despite his young age, I hope that his father Dragon is even stronger.
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yee so many things was pointing it to be official... And then I was like... Hmm, I haven't translated this thing under the ranking list, let's see what it says just in case, them boom... Not official
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If him being able to control wind/natural disasters is truly the case, that sounds like a pretty broken ability.
Dragon being around kaido lvl or a little above is a fine placement I feel like, I can't see him with Prime Roger, Whitebeard and Garp... Especially when he never actually fights many battles (Well from what we know)
Even old garp is above admiral tier tho
I see Dragon more of a fast, haxy and tactical fighter than a brawler... We'll see in the future tho
But yea, 25+ years later in one piece and we still don’t have answers to a lot of important questions
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Kaido and Big Mom could also do stuff like that, gonna assume he's a zoan primarily for that tho
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Anyone here ever think about how silly Zoro's attack names are?
Like, Sanji's attacks are named after cuisine. Okay, makes sense.
Luffy's attacks are named after weaponry.... I mean, he fights barehanded, but sure. He has a somewhat military family & he fights marines on the regular, maybe he picked something up.
But Zoro? Dude grew up in, what, a sword-fighting school? Where did he learn to write, let alone make wordplay based off of multiple meanings of kanji?
One gorilla, two gorilla, unrefined rice wine!
& just off the top of my head, there's a Two-Sword-Style technique that goes Tower Climb/Fatty Tuna->Reverse/Descending Tower Climb/Extra Fatty Tuna.
Dude is making puns about paper lantern ceremonies, theological references (Despite claiming to Enel that he's an atheist?), & sushi, & probably a bunch of other stuff.
Where did he learn all this? What is he on about?
I can scarcely remember Zoro ever writing (He does seem at least somewhat literate.), so when did he get the inspiration for these multiple reading puns?
Like, Sanji's attacks are named after cuisine. Okay, makes sense.
Luffy's attacks are named after weaponry.... I mean, he fights barehanded, but sure. He has a somewhat military family & he fights marines on the regular, maybe he picked something up.
But Zoro? Dude grew up in, what, a sword-fighting school? Where did he learn to write, let alone make wordplay based off of multiple meanings of kanji?
Oni Giri (鬼斬り, Oni Giri, literally meaning "Ogre Cutter"): The pun in the name is that onigiri is also the name of a Japanese rice snack, while an oni is a type of ogre/demon in Japanese folklore.
(You know, like the rice balls that girl & Luffy gave him when he was captured?)
Yaki Oni Giri (焼鬼斬り, Yaki Oni Giri, literally meaning "Burning Ogre Cutter"): Adding "yaki" to it would change its meaning to "grilled rice ball". In the VIZ manga and Funimation adaptations, this is called Flaming Oni Giri.
Enbima Yonezu Oni Giri (艶美魔夜不眠鬼斬り, Enbima Yonezu Oni Giri, literally meaning "Charm Demon Sleepless Night Ogre Cutter"): The pun naming in this Oni Giri variation is due to whenever "Ebi Mayoneezu" is added, the name can also mean "shrimp mayonnaise rice ball" in Japanese; "yonezu" by itself without an extended "e" vowel is also a term for rice vinegar (along with "komezu/komesu"). In the VIZ manga and Funimation dub, this is called Charming Demon Sleepless Night Oni Giri.
Tora Gari (虎狩り, Tora Gari, literally meaning "Tiger Hunting"): The pun in the name is that "Tora Gari" is also a type of Mohican haircut.In the VIZ manga, this is called Tiger Hunt, but later in Volume 21 it is called Tiger Trap. In the 4Kids and Funimation dubs, this is called Tiger Trap.
Toro Nagashi (刀狼流し, Tōrō Nagashi, literally meaning "Blade Wolf Stream/Flowing"): In the VIZ manga, 4Kids, and Funimation adaptations, this is called Streaming Wolf Swords. Tourounagashi (灯籠流し, lit. "garden/hanging lantern stream/current") is a Japanese Buddhism ceremony in which participants float paper lanterns (chochin) down a river.
Tatsu Maki (龍巻き, Tatsu Maki, literally meaning "Dragon Twister"): The pun here is "Tatsumaki" means "tornado" in Japanese when written with the Japanese character for "tatsu" (竜) instead of the Chinese character (龍), and is also a type of sushi. In the VIZ manga and 4Kids dub, this is called Dragon Twister, and in the Funimation dub, this technique keeps its original name. However, in some earlier episodes of the Funimation dub, Zoro calls it Dragon Twister. In the Odex dub, this is called Zoro Tornado.
Ichi Gorilla (一剛力羅ゴリラ, Ichi Gorira, literally meaning "One Gorilla"): "剛力" (gori) means "herculean or great strength" (literally read as "gouriki" and can also be written in kanji as "強力"), while the kanji for 羅 (lit. "silk/thin/gauze") is a kanji used for demon names in Japanese. The pun is of course, "one great strength" and gorilla (though a more literal translation is "strong strength gauze"). In the VIZ manga and Funimation adaptations, this is called One Gorilla.
Ni Gorilla (二剛力羅ゴリラ, Ni Gorira, literally meaning "Two Gorillas"): As above, the pun is "two-strong strength" and gorilla. This was first seen being used against Kaku. In the VIZ manga and Funimation adaptations, this is called Two Gorilla.
Nigori-Zake (二剛力斬ニゴリザケ, Nigori-Zake<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Japanese" title="wikipedia:Help:Japanese"><span>?</span></a>, literally meaning "Two-Strong Strength Slash"): The pun here is that nigori zake also means 'unrefined sake (Japanese Rice Wine)'. In the VIZ manga, this is called Two Gorilla Cut while in the Funimation adaptations, this is named Two Gorilla Slash.
Hyakuhachi Pound Ho (百八煩悩ポンド鳳, Hyakuhachi Pondo Hō, kanji meaning "Hundred and Eight Klesha Phoenix"; furigana meaning "108 Pound Phoenix/Cannon"):
This is called 108 Pound Phoenix in the VIZ manga, Funimation subs, and the Funimation dub of Episode of Sky Island. It's called 108 Caliber Phoenix in the Funimation dub of the main series, and Triple Sword Soaring Phoenix in the 4Kids dub. The attack's name is actually a very heavy pun — it is written out as "Phoenix of the 108 Kleshas" in the manga with a skewed reading attached that makes it "108 Pound Hō" when read out:
(You know, like the rice balls that girl & Luffy gave him when he was captured?)
Yaki Oni Giri (焼鬼斬り, Yaki Oni Giri, literally meaning "Burning Ogre Cutter"): Adding "yaki" to it would change its meaning to "grilled rice ball". In the VIZ manga and Funimation adaptations, this is called Flaming Oni Giri.
Enbima Yonezu Oni Giri (艶美魔夜不眠鬼斬り, Enbima Yonezu Oni Giri, literally meaning "Charm Demon Sleepless Night Ogre Cutter"): The pun naming in this Oni Giri variation is due to whenever "Ebi Mayoneezu" is added, the name can also mean "shrimp mayonnaise rice ball" in Japanese; "yonezu" by itself without an extended "e" vowel is also a term for rice vinegar (along with "komezu/komesu"). In the VIZ manga and Funimation dub, this is called Charming Demon Sleepless Night Oni Giri.
Tora Gari (虎狩り, Tora Gari, literally meaning "Tiger Hunting"): The pun in the name is that "Tora Gari" is also a type of Mohican haircut.In the VIZ manga, this is called Tiger Hunt, but later in Volume 21 it is called Tiger Trap. In the 4Kids and Funimation dubs, this is called Tiger Trap.
Toro Nagashi (刀狼流し, Tōrō Nagashi, literally meaning "Blade Wolf Stream/Flowing"): In the VIZ manga, 4Kids, and Funimation adaptations, this is called Streaming Wolf Swords. Tourounagashi (灯籠流し, lit. "garden/hanging lantern stream/current") is a Japanese Buddhism ceremony in which participants float paper lanterns (chochin) down a river.
Tatsu Maki (龍巻き, Tatsu Maki, literally meaning "Dragon Twister"): The pun here is "Tatsumaki" means "tornado" in Japanese when written with the Japanese character for "tatsu" (竜) instead of the Chinese character (龍), and is also a type of sushi. In the VIZ manga and 4Kids dub, this is called Dragon Twister, and in the Funimation dub, this technique keeps its original name. However, in some earlier episodes of the Funimation dub, Zoro calls it Dragon Twister. In the Odex dub, this is called Zoro Tornado.
Ichi Gorilla (一剛力羅ゴリラ, Ichi Gorira, literally meaning "One Gorilla"): "剛力" (gori) means "herculean or great strength" (literally read as "gouriki" and can also be written in kanji as "強力"), while the kanji for 羅 (lit. "silk/thin/gauze") is a kanji used for demon names in Japanese. The pun is of course, "one great strength" and gorilla (though a more literal translation is "strong strength gauze"). In the VIZ manga and Funimation adaptations, this is called One Gorilla.
Ni Gorilla (二剛力羅ゴリラ, Ni Gorira, literally meaning "Two Gorillas"): As above, the pun is "two-strong strength" and gorilla. This was first seen being used against Kaku. In the VIZ manga and Funimation adaptations, this is called Two Gorilla.
Nigori-Zake (二剛力斬ニゴリザケ, Nigori-Zake<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Japanese" title="wikipedia:Help:Japanese"><span>?</span></a>, literally meaning "Two-Strong Strength Slash"): The pun here is that nigori zake also means 'unrefined sake (Japanese Rice Wine)'. In the VIZ manga, this is called Two Gorilla Cut while in the Funimation adaptations, this is named Two Gorilla Slash.
Hyakuhachi Pound Ho (百八煩悩ポンド鳳, Hyakuhachi Pondo Hō, kanji meaning "Hundred and Eight Klesha Phoenix"; furigana meaning "108 Pound Phoenix/Cannon"):
This is called 108 Pound Phoenix in the VIZ manga, Funimation subs, and the Funimation dub of Episode of Sky Island. It's called 108 Caliber Phoenix in the Funimation dub of the main series, and Triple Sword Soaring Phoenix in the 4Kids dub. The attack's name is actually a very heavy pun — it is written out as "Phoenix of the 108 Kleshas" in the manga with a skewed reading attached that makes it "108 Pound Hō" when read out:
- Ho means both "cannon" (砲, Hō) and "phoenix" (鳳, Hō), however the attached kanji is for "phoenix", making that the literal translation and the "cannon" reading a pun on that, both of which are correct. The kanji "ho" however, actually means the east asian phoenix.
- The "pound" part is a skewed reading of the kanji for "klesha" (煩悩, Bonnō) (The Buddhist term for "worldly desires with evil thoughts"), and is a reference to the weight of the largest solid iron sphere that would fit down a cannon's barrel (a 108-pound cannon would fire 108-pound round shot).
- Oda clarified in SBS Volume 31 that "12 pounds might not sound like much, but the cannon needed to shoot them will need to weight over 1 ton. (1 pound = roughly 0.45kg)."
- During the battle against the Special Zombie, Oars, Zoro had used an enhanced version of this technique alongside Shusui, where the three air compressed projectiles instead fuse and become a larger and more powerful, compressed air projectile.
One gorilla, two gorilla, unrefined rice wine!
& just off the top of my head, there's a Two-Sword-Style technique that goes Tower Climb/Fatty Tuna->Reverse/Descending Tower Climb/Extra Fatty Tuna.
Dude is making puns about paper lantern ceremonies, theological references (Despite claiming to Enel that he's an atheist?), & sushi, & probably a bunch of other stuff.
Where did he learn all this? What is he on about?
I can scarcely remember Zoro ever writing (He does seem at least somewhat literate.), so when did he get the inspiration for these multiple reading puns?
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My bad.
Still, he seems non-religious, no?
Or does the attack naming mean he's a non-praying Buddhist or such, maybe?
No offense meant to anyone, all.
If he isn't one, it'd be strange for him to reference stuff from it -As well as, regardless of his believes/practices, other things like onis, sushi types, etc.- in his technique names.
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... I mean, I think he believe in that sort of stuff but doesn't follow/pray to them or something
One can still believe they exist and still not follow them... He's more of a..... agnostic, wait no, not that... Theist? Idk something like that
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It’s probably some manifestation of himself/his Haki like with AshuraSpeaking of grim reaper, I think that we need to receive an explanation about what happened to Zoro with what seemed to be a shinigami in Wano.
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Zoro simply solos bleach 
he's immune to shinigamis from just willpower 
he's immune to shinigamis from just willpower
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“No haki?” vs “No Reiatsu?”Zoro simply solos bleach
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Don't think that's the case, as Zoro doesn't even know what's happening where with Ashura he does, he's also in a very weakened state... His Haki wouldn't just do that
Would be either from the sword Enma or Zoro having resisted/visited death too many times
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Not everything is or should be about power levels. One Piece is a far qualitatively superior and enormously more sympathetic work in my view.Zoro simply solos bleach
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well I was being sarcastic and joking there
Truth, sympathetic I'm not sure tho... Isn't ichigo like always sad/in rage or something in battlesOne Piece is a far qualitatively superior and enormously more sympathetic work in my view.
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I meant that I have the impression that One Piece is for progress, tolerance, freedom, love, unity, friendship, kindness, joy, hope, and life, whereas Bleach is ideologically its polar opposite.
Bleach is very far from the most poisonous and genuinely evil work I have ever read. For example, the narrative mindscapes of people like Kieron Gillen, Adam Warren, Warren Ellis, Garth Ennis, Bill Willingham, Jim Starlin, Rick Remender, Mark Millar, Jonathan Hickman, Justin Roiland, Dan Harmon, and so onwards seem like pure conceptual morbid amoral destructive cancer by my experience, but nevertheless.
Bleach is very far from the most poisonous and genuinely evil work I have ever read. For example, the narrative mindscapes of people like Kieron Gillen, Adam Warren, Warren Ellis, Garth Ennis, Bill Willingham, Jim Starlin, Rick Remender, Mark Millar, Jonathan Hickman, Justin Roiland, Dan Harmon, and so onwards seem like pure conceptual morbid amoral destructive cancer by my experience, but nevertheless.
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Why do you not enjoy bleach? I like the action and general world building (one piece is far better in the worldbuilding aspect)
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Because, as I said above, I have the impression that its core values are conservatism/slavish adherence to destructive tradition, intolerance, tyranny, callousness, hatred, tribalism, power-mad competition and social Darwinism, inventive cruelty and sadism, mirthlessness, hopelessness, dystopia, injustice, and death, meaning a really nasty form of amoral hope-destroying and utterly boring nihilism, fascism, and barbarism.
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IDK if there's anything proper in a dictionary for it, "anthitheist", which is "beyond An active opponent of the belief in the existence of a god or gods. ", but Zoro doesn't seem to OPPOSE belief in Gods. AFAIK, he doesn't preach not to believe in them.
TV Tropes has a term: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Laconic/NayTheist
However, before someone cough cough put the focus on only the tangentially religion-related part of my post, I was trying to talk about HOW does Zoro know about the things he names his moves for?
Sorry, sorry.
Stuff like types of sushi/tuna cuts, & onigiri, alternate readings for Kanji, when we scarcely see him read or write & his only known education is for sword-fighting.
Where did Zoro get this knowledge & inspiration for his move names?
His Bull Needles move is named after an Ushibari, a type of beam used in Japanese home construction, Crab Seize is a pun on the term for a weathervane, Crow Demon Hunting is based on slang for a leg cramp,
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Didn't he say something in Loguetown that was more explicit on that?
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That would only be true if you thought the Soul Society was meant to be sympathetic. Every villain is portrayed as being created because of them, and their government officials are portrayed in the same manner as the 5 Elders. Many main characters work in active defiance of them, and Aizen murdering all 46 of the last group was talked about for like a chapter and never again.
Essentially, that's like saying One Piece is in support of the World Government because Garp(who protected the Celestial Dragons in God Valley), Sengoku(Who ran the Marines for decades and is culpable for almost every major action they took), Aokiji(Who participated in the attack on Ohara), and Kizaru(Who did not object to Kuma's treatment and the order to kill his friend) are portrayed in a sympathetic light, not taking into account the fact that these characters are meant to be multifaceted. Or that it was in support of the genocide inflicted on, say, the Kurozumi.
Someone could bring up Mayuri, but Caesar Clown is treated as a fun and goofy little side character now. He kidnapped children and gave them drugs that would kill them if they were kept from having access, all so he could turn those kids into soldiers for a cannibalistic warlord. The dude then used a living chemical weapon on his own underlings, then forced the weapon he'd made to die for him. He also created the SMILEs used to torment the civilians of Wano and to prevent an uprising, whilst also increasing the power of Kaidou's forces so Orochi's dictatorial rule could be extended. When he, in his "Gangster Gastino," persona, was helping out on Whole Cake, he was treated as an ally, and we were meant to root for him. Sometimes a character does something morally wrong, but is still narratively treated as a positive force due to a common enemy.
But that's just my take.
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The thing about Ichigo is that if anything is going on, he doesn't want to be there. He wants to be at home with his family playing PS2, and any fighting he does is because an outside force has forced him into that location.
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W pookie piece
That dude was really comparing the smaller panels to the double spreads and thought he was actually making a good point. I swear...
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Wait, MonkeMan was banned for good this time?Just a note that I have requested that DaMonkeMan's ban should be significantly reduced if he requests it and wants to return here.
Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
With MonkeMan committing to a permanent ban, that leaves us with DivineAura. Relatively light actions all throughout, I wouldn't recommend anything more than a two week ban given the circumstances. I'd also support no higher than 2 weeks for DivineAura.vsbattles.com
What in the world did I miss?
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He requested it himself due to that he behaved badly enough for a short ban, and I have stated that he can request it to be lifted if he wishes.Wait, MonkeMan was banned for good this time?
What in the world did I miss?
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Well, we have to agree to disagree then. I have the impression that Bleach defends thoroughly evil and corrupt institutions and values being maintained and nurtured, and that it wants to state that nothing can ever be greatly changed for the better, and that any degrees of amoral transgressions are acceptable as long as they are performed by a tribalist ally.
However, I obviously do agree about Caesar Clown being a thoroughly evil bastard, and that it is disturbing that his crimes are not treated more seriously, but unlike Mayuri, who is likely considerably worse, he is never treated as one of the protagonists, and allowed to freely perform experiments on a level with or exceeding doctor Mengele while working for the designated "good guys".
So yes, I still have a very strong impression that Bleach is an pro-fascist work with strong ideological roots in Japan's old alliance with Nazi Germany (much like Baki the Grappler for that matter) that also promotes utter hopelessness in its conceptual cosmological setup.
