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But we actually did scale the thickness of the Birdcage's string in the calculation for the durability of the Birdcage. Or have I misunderstood your comment?
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One Piece: Early Post-Timeskip and God Tiers AP Revision
- Thread starter GodlyCharmander
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GodlyCharmander
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So what's decided here? Please inform me so I can update the OP
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I believe shiki's feat is an outlier. It's performed by a super rusty super weak shiki casually yet It's many times higher than the some of the strongest feats performed by serious yonko level characters.
GodlyCharmander
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Fluffy does not know what an outlier is.
GodlyCharmander
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Unsupported Headcanon/Doesn't matter, since it's a Devil Fruit feat
Unsupported Headcanon/Doesn't matter, since it's a Devil Fruit feat.
Unsupported Headcanon, we don't see how much effort it takes to do it. Also, it's his DF's AP.
The 2 Petaton feat is performed by a god tier's Devil Fruit that is dwarfed by the people Shiki scales to. It's not an outlier to that.
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who told you this?
This happened anytime over the span of 20 years. Assuming it was done by the recent Shiki is unfounded
Kazuma_kuwabara
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About the god tiers, I choose the option B
The rest I don´t see any problem for now
The rest I don´t see any problem for now
Eminiteable
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Where are you getting 4 times from?
GodlyCharmander
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Zoro never cuts a string, IIRC
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Hyouzou
Eminiteable
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Oh yeah
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He lost to thriller bark luffy man. He's maintaining it casually, just like kaido was, so it's proportional to his stamina.
Even fujitora's feat sounds iffy tbh. It's casually stronger than all whitebeards quake fruit feats which is literally stronger than it canonically.
But he is casually maintaining it. And even if it was his prime, it's still way stronger than any feat in one piece by a lot and dwarfs feats of characters that are supposed to be stronger.
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You talking about characters who like never do aoe type attacks seriously and only do it casually and or doing it accidentally
which is what we are using currently to scale the God tiers if shiki isn't involved
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GodlyCharmander
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And? That's an outlier.
"It works simarly, so it must have the same effects on the user"
FluffyHeadcanonsZ.
The fruit's ability is to makes things float. Kaidou's ability is to transform in a Dragon, the flame clouds is a supernatural power given by his zoan form, just using your standard DF ability doesn't make you tired with the exception of notable outliers to the rule such as Law.
This, however, was never implied to be the case for Shiki.
It's literally "feat too high in value!", you have zero problems with the math, so how the hell is it iffy? It's higher into Tier 6 than WB's calcs, so it's in the same vicinity of power (going by our Tiering system)
Tell me, who is "supposed" to be stronger than Shiki? Every character in WB's range is relative to each other.
GodlyCharmander
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It doesn't take too much brain power to answer that
- Shiki's introduction was by comparing him to Roger
- He is canonically mentioned as rivaling Roger and Garp
- He shows no signs of being weaker
- The High 6-A feat did not necessarily happen recently, it could have occurred anywhere between 20 years ago and today, thus, Luffy beating him is irrelevant.
- Luffy was in a movie, which he had to win, uninjured, because it was "retconned" into a few-day timeskip inbetween two arcs where supposedly
- The sheer disparity of feats in the movie itself are outliers for Luffy, as he taps into Post TS territory with some of these feats.
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If a major plot point in the movie is so unreasonable to the wider story of One Piece, shouldn't that completely invalidate the whole feat? You say that "the sheer disparity of feats in the movie itself are outliers for Luffy", so then why are we treating them as perfectly fine for Shiki? It makes no sense to completely ignore everything Luffy does, only to use Shiki's feats to massively upgrade the God Tiers. Especially when considering the shaky-at-best canonicity (Yes, Oda wrote it. But it also contradicts the manga: no one ever mentions Luffy beating Shiki which is an incredible feat in-universe, Zoro does not have his wounds from Thriller Bark in the movie but then does in Sabaody, and Brook says that the fight with Duval was his first fight as a Straw Hat). This movie is incredibly inconsistent with the manga, both in terms of story and powerscaling. Even if it is canon to the story, shouldn't the massive "disparity of feats in the movie" invalidate such a massive verse-wide upgrade?
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I agree. Just because the author wrote it shouldn't automatically make it canon. Take the Naruto: Road to Ninja movie. Kishimoto wrote the movie himself, but it's not treated as canon at all since it contradicts the timeline. The One Piece fandom has it so that even if a character is introduced in a movie or the anime then referenced in the manga, only the manga information is canon, while all other sections are treated as non-canon. And the inconsistencies presented in the movie also discredit the idea that it's canon.
Eminiteable
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Why is strong world being canon being discussed now when it was already accepted?
GodlyCharmander
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They can make a thread about the canonity of the movie elsewhere, I will address the point based on our current approved standards.
GodlyCharmander
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Read the verse page.
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Even if the film is accepted as canon, I still strongly disagree with the Shiki feat being used. The film is an absolute scaling mess, so it makes no sense to use that feat. Why is that feat useable to massively upgrade every God Tier when Luffy has a massive outlier of his own?
GodlyCharmander
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What?
What kind of olympic logic jump is that? Because one of the aspects of the movie is unreasonable, then all aspects of the movie are unreasonable? No, that's not the case at all. Luffy has to beat Shiki because of the plot, it doesn't fit in his scaling, and it happened because the movie itself needs the protagonist to progress to Sabaody like nothing happened, because it was retconned into the timeline.
This also happened in Alabasta, Luffy was not supposed to beat Crocodile, he is shown to be comparable to Doffy and even some other top tiers who are 7-A. Yet, he was beaten by a 7-C character, and Oda literally admits he shouldn't be able to do so.
What, we're going to ignore the feats of the entire arc because of one mistake too? No, we're not.
"Massively"? It's 6-A to High 6-A, that's far from a "massive" upgrade. God, if it was 6-B to High 6-A it wouldn't be a large upgrade. This isn't based on energy levels, but the actual tiering range that is presented to you in the Tiering System. It's a tectonic-level feat upgrading characters in the tectonic-level range, it's not a substantial upgrade.
Furthermore, the 6-A feat does not represent the fullest extent of the God Tier's power, thus, we cannot say this High 6-A acts as an outlier for a character that greatly upscales from the 6-A feat in question.
I do not need to tell you why Luffy doesn't get the same treatment, the gap is 7-A to High 6-C~6-B, it's obviously an outlier for the sake of the plot of the movie.
Oh, you forgot to mention how Oda:
- Deliberately told the viewers that the events of the movie takes place in the story (SBS 55)
- Stated the movie was "the last adventure of Luffy was a 17yo" (as in, the last official anime/manga about the Pre Timeskip era)
- Deliberately put Shiki was an antagonistic relationship to Luffy in a Databook about manga-canon information (Databook: Deep Blue)
But oh, it's just some minor details, I'm sure the movie isn't canon at all!
Let me give you a rundown of how many people besides the SH themselves know this took place:
Thank you for reading my list.
Exactly. This point is moot.
The wounds are never a factor until Zoro exerts himself to an extreme. He fodderized Shiki's crewmate.
That's a retcon from the movie, which is retconned in the first place.
Why would
the feats that are invalid to Luffy
invalidate
a feat that happened at most 20 years before the movie even started?
Do you not understand the context here? Shiki's Devil Fruit ability feat happened before said movie took place, we just see the feat after it was completed when Luffy and the others are invited to the floating islands. We do not know when he made it float.
GodlyCharmander
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Because Shiki upscales in the same range of power, Luffy does not.
You're comparing apples and oranges.
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Jesus Cristo, no
GodlyCharmander
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Your answer for this argument is 10x worse than the argument itself, please stop this-
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GodlyCharmander
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Very Amped Yonkou > Amped Yonkou > Base Yonkou/Admiral = Feat they scale to.
It won't change a thing in the scaling chain
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I agree with everything except Fujitora and Shiki's calculations.
The calculations are SEVERAL times above than Whitebeard's calculations. Whitebeard and Akainu are declared to have the fruit with the highest offensive power. So, another DF having a calculation several times above their DF's makes this scale very strange.
The arguments against my points are: "We should prioritize official statements over any calculations" And when I look at options B and C, it sounds like: "Official statements are above any calculation, so we should ignore Whitebeard's calculations and we'll scale the Whitebeard and Akainu DF's for Shiki and Fujitora's DF's calculations, because their DF's were declared to have the highest offensive power." That is, one of the calculations should be ignored in the scale, and it is proposed that: "The lowest calculation that makes the scale lower should be ignored, and we must use the highest calculation, which makes the scale higher." That sounds very partial, because there have other ways to deal with it.
The other way to deal with this would be: "Official statements are above any calculation, so we should ignore the calculations of Shiki and Fujitora's, because they are several times above the highest Whitebeard's calculation, which was declared to have the highest offensive power." If one of the calculations should be ignored on the scale, let it be the highest, since it is far above the highest calculation of the strongest fruit.
And the points in favor of the second way are:
•Shiki was defeated by Luffy Pre-TS.
•While his feat could have been done anytime within 20 years, there is a possibility that it was done by him weakened.
• The feats are several times above the highest calculation of the strongest fruit.
•Since Whitebeard's and Akainu's DF's have been declared to have the highest offensive power, then it is their calculations that should be used as a scale.
The calculations are SEVERAL times above than Whitebeard's calculations. Whitebeard and Akainu are declared to have the fruit with the highest offensive power. So, another DF having a calculation several times above their DF's makes this scale very strange.
The arguments against my points are: "We should prioritize official statements over any calculations" And when I look at options B and C, it sounds like: "Official statements are above any calculation, so we should ignore Whitebeard's calculations and we'll scale the Whitebeard and Akainu DF's for Shiki and Fujitora's DF's calculations, because their DF's were declared to have the highest offensive power." That is, one of the calculations should be ignored in the scale, and it is proposed that: "The lowest calculation that makes the scale lower should be ignored, and we must use the highest calculation, which makes the scale higher." That sounds very partial, because there have other ways to deal with it.
The other way to deal with this would be: "Official statements are above any calculation, so we should ignore the calculations of Shiki and Fujitora's, because they are several times above the highest Whitebeard's calculation, which was declared to have the highest offensive power." If one of the calculations should be ignored on the scale, let it be the highest, since it is far above the highest calculation of the strongest fruit.
And the points in favor of the second way are:
•Shiki was defeated by Luffy Pre-TS.
•While his feat could have been done anytime within 20 years, there is a possibility that it was done by him weakened.
• The feats are several times above the highest calculation of the strongest fruit.
•Since Whitebeard's and Akainu's DF's have been declared to have the highest offensive power, then it is their calculations that should be used as a scale.
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I agree with the OP, and I agree with Option C
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So their attacks with two hands will scale to 2x the H6A value? Shouldn't that be noted somewhere?
GodlyCharmander
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Name god tier other than Luffy that uses two-handed attacks (which are different than one-handed ones in any way. Using two hands to hold the Kanabo doesn't count)
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