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One Piece CRT: Zunesha Scaling
Currently, Kaido (One Piece) is accepted to scale to Zunesha on the wiki due to claims that Kaido is, allegedly, the strongest creature in the world, therefore he must be superior in AP to Zunesha.
Fairly simple rationale. Fairly easy to counter, too. Let's look at the pro-side first.
Why Kaido Scales To Zunesha
Literally this single sca. "People say" is the entire reason we base Kaido's scaling to Zunesha off of. No narration here confirms that Kaido objectively IS the strongest creature in the world, it's confirming people THINK that and gives no rationale as to WHY they think it, beyond his surviving being beaten and captured 18 times.
People in the One Piece world also think the Marines are righteous and Pirates are evil, but I suppose that's another topic entirely on discrediting the intellect of a populace at large, so let's move on.
The Elephant In The Room With The Pro-Scaling Argument
Really wanted to make that joke
Given the following:
1. We accept the One Piece population is correct in their assessment
2. We accept that the One Piece population has adequate knowledge such to make the assessment accurate
3. No feats exist such that Kaido could circumvent this claim via anything than a direct clash with Zunesha
Then he would scale. I have already pointed out a snide jab at how absurd presumption #1 is in and of itself. However, presumption #2, which is necessary to the claim being accurate, is objectively fallible.
Zou has been the home of the Mink Tribe for exactly 1000 years, according to the Minks themselves. They are knowledged in how Zou works and operates, they've LIVED ON IT FOR 1000 YEARS. This is very important, because:
Nobody on Zou believed Zunesha was a sentient being with a will until well after we get the claim about Kaido's strength.
To reiterate: the people who inhabit the island didn't believe the elephant is anything sentient or has a will. They don't think it can fight, their first reaction to the elephant coming under attack was Inaurashi ordering fleets to engage Jack at sea, and they also had never experienced, in those 1000 years, Zunesha coming under attack
If the people who have lived there for an entire millenium have no reason to believe Zunesha has combat abilities, how on earth can anyone reasonably believe the claim of commoners in the world of One Piece that Kaido is stronger than it? Why would we scale Kaido to a creature nobody thought had a will or combat abilities? Do we presume the common folk have Information Analysis and compared Kaido's stats to this random giant elephant? Do we presume Kaido fought literally every single creature in the world at some point in time to earn the title? Do we presume the common folk of One Piece would even know of Zou and think 'yup, that's a big critter alright, Kaido totally could take it on based on literally no information I have access to'.
No, we don't, because that's absurd, ridiculous, and fallacious. Even attempting to argue for accepting it would likely make me question your rationale ipso facto. Nobody has seen Zunesha attacked. Nobody knows it can even defend itself. Nobody knows its combat capability. Nobody would have any reasonable way to claim Kaido is stronger than a completely unknown creature.
Further Issues
Given that Presumptions #1 and 2 are questionable, but could be accepted solely to wank Kaido scaling to Zunesha, let's examine presumption #3, that Kaido would have to overcome Zunesha directly in a 1-on-1 fight to beat it, and therefore scales.
Considering Zunesha is nearly killed by cannonballs, that's a Negative, Ghostrider.
Zunesha's skin is so fragile that cannon fire objectively gouges its flesh and starts to cripple the elephant, threatening to bring it down to its knees. Kaido could, unironically, launch a single breath attack attack at Zunesha from a distance and bring it to its knees.
Scaling Kaido to Zunesha's AP due to Zunesha having an explicit weakness that lets even cannonballs harm it is.....well that's questionable.
Conclusion
To reiterate the Pro-Scaling Argument:
1. Kaido is believed to scale solely because of things the general population in One Piece believes to be true
To reiterate the No-Scaling Argument:
1. The general population being an objective indicator of truth is, itself, hilariously reaching
2. The people who have lived on Zunesha's back for 1000 years don't think it has combat abilities. How would anyone think Kaido scales to a power nobody is aware of?
3. Kaido could obviously kill Zunesha in a 1-on-1 due to the fact that cannon fire was about to take it down if not for Momonosuke telling Zunesha to defend itself. Killing a defenseless, weak-spot-ridden foe in a 1-on-1 does not scale you to it.
As a side note, titles really shouldn't scale people, especially since there is precedent on-site for not letting titles in One Piece scale: Mihawk was denied scaling to any swordsman regardless of possessing the title World's Strongest Swordsman. So already several persons have previous agreement with this thread based on that alone, unless their minds suddenly changed (doubtful, since Mihawk actually has objective claims of at least beating any and every challenger for that title until he found nobody worthy anymore; that's actually objectively more than Kaido has going for him, and Mihawk was denied. It'd be the pinnacle of hypocrisy to let Kaido scale, in addition to everything else I lay out.)
Currently, Kaido (One Piece) is accepted to scale to Zunesha on the wiki due to claims that Kaido is, allegedly, the strongest creature in the world, therefore he must be superior in AP to Zunesha.
Fairly simple rationale. Fairly easy to counter, too. Let's look at the pro-side first.
Why Kaido Scales To Zunesha
Literally this single sca. "People say" is the entire reason we base Kaido's scaling to Zunesha off of. No narration here confirms that Kaido objectively IS the strongest creature in the world, it's confirming people THINK that and gives no rationale as to WHY they think it, beyond his surviving being beaten and captured 18 times.
People in the One Piece world also think the Marines are righteous and Pirates are evil, but I suppose that's another topic entirely on discrediting the intellect of a populace at large, so let's move on.
The Elephant In The Room With The Pro-Scaling Argument
Given the following:
1. We accept the One Piece population is correct in their assessment
2. We accept that the One Piece population has adequate knowledge such to make the assessment accurate
3. No feats exist such that Kaido could circumvent this claim via anything than a direct clash with Zunesha
Then he would scale. I have already pointed out a snide jab at how absurd presumption #1 is in and of itself. However, presumption #2, which is necessary to the claim being accurate, is objectively fallible.
Zou has been the home of the Mink Tribe for exactly 1000 years, according to the Minks themselves. They are knowledged in how Zou works and operates, they've LIVED ON IT FOR 1000 YEARS. This is very important, because:
Nobody on Zou believed Zunesha was a sentient being with a will until well after we get the claim about Kaido's strength.
To reiterate: the people who inhabit the island didn't believe the elephant is anything sentient or has a will. They don't think it can fight, their first reaction to the elephant coming under attack was Inaurashi ordering fleets to engage Jack at sea, and they also had never experienced, in those 1000 years, Zunesha coming under attack
If the people who have lived there for an entire millenium have no reason to believe Zunesha has combat abilities, how on earth can anyone reasonably believe the claim of commoners in the world of One Piece that Kaido is stronger than it? Why would we scale Kaido to a creature nobody thought had a will or combat abilities? Do we presume the common folk have Information Analysis and compared Kaido's stats to this random giant elephant? Do we presume Kaido fought literally every single creature in the world at some point in time to earn the title? Do we presume the common folk of One Piece would even know of Zou and think 'yup, that's a big critter alright, Kaido totally could take it on based on literally no information I have access to'.
No, we don't, because that's absurd, ridiculous, and fallacious. Even attempting to argue for accepting it would likely make me question your rationale ipso facto. Nobody has seen Zunesha attacked. Nobody knows it can even defend itself. Nobody knows its combat capability. Nobody would have any reasonable way to claim Kaido is stronger than a completely unknown creature.
Further Issues
Given that Presumptions #1 and 2 are questionable, but could be accepted solely to wank Kaido scaling to Zunesha, let's examine presumption #3, that Kaido would have to overcome Zunesha directly in a 1-on-1 fight to beat it, and therefore scales.
Considering Zunesha is nearly killed by cannonballs, that's a Negative, Ghostrider.
Zunesha's skin is so fragile that cannon fire objectively gouges its flesh and starts to cripple the elephant, threatening to bring it down to its knees. Kaido could, unironically, launch a single breath attack attack at Zunesha from a distance and bring it to its knees.
Scaling Kaido to Zunesha's AP due to Zunesha having an explicit weakness that lets even cannonballs harm it is.....well that's questionable.
Conclusion
To reiterate the Pro-Scaling Argument:
1. Kaido is believed to scale solely because of things the general population in One Piece believes to be true
To reiterate the No-Scaling Argument:
1. The general population being an objective indicator of truth is, itself, hilariously reaching
2. The people who have lived on Zunesha's back for 1000 years don't think it has combat abilities. How would anyone think Kaido scales to a power nobody is aware of?
3. Kaido could obviously kill Zunesha in a 1-on-1 due to the fact that cannon fire was about to take it down if not for Momonosuke telling Zunesha to defend itself. Killing a defenseless, weak-spot-ridden foe in a 1-on-1 does not scale you to it.
As a side note, titles really shouldn't scale people, especially since there is precedent on-site for not letting titles in One Piece scale: Mihawk was denied scaling to any swordsman regardless of possessing the title World's Strongest Swordsman. So already several persons have previous agreement with this thread based on that alone, unless their minds suddenly changed (doubtful, since Mihawk actually has objective claims of at least beating any and every challenger for that title until he found nobody worthy anymore; that's actually objectively more than Kaido has going for him, and Mihawk was denied. It'd be the pinnacle of hypocrisy to let Kaido scale, in addition to everything else I lay out.)
