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- #81
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One Piece Cloud Calculation Rule (For One Piece)
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
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- 21,137
- 30,090
- Thread starter
- #83
Bump, again
@DontTalkDT any update? It's been a month since you last spoke. Not to rush you, just checking
@DontTalkDT any update? It's been a month since you last spoke. Not to rush you, just checking
- 21,137
- 30,090
- Thread starter
- #84
Alright who else knows how to make an equation based on the shit from the old thread
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We obviously see that the storm clouds in Onigashima are regular storm clouds akin to what we get IRL. So, for the sake of lowball, why don't we take the density of the least dense naturally occurring storm clouds IRL, and use that density for the OP storm clouds. Since, they're akin to our IRL storm clouds, they shouldn't be less dense than our least dense IRL storm clouds. Or maybe use the average Japanese storm cloud density, since Wano is based on Japan and Oda is Japanese.
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #86
we need a value for it then
- 17,029
- 22,875
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #88
Yeah so I've ran back and forth with every damn equation and the issue is that the reference point we use (the density super high) breaks the barometric formula
as well
as well
- 21,137
- 30,090
- Thread starter
- #89
Bump, again
- 29,790
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It's possible there's just not a satisfactory solution for this. There are plenty of other feats for One Piece too that we can rely on so we're not locked into being dependent on cloud calculations.
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #91
Nah, there's definitely a satisfactory solution, it's just that we need a consensus.
Cause we can say "yeah I think using the lowest cumulonimbus cloud density possible should be fine" and then DT comes in and says "nah this can't work"
Cause we can say "yeah I think using the lowest cumulonimbus cloud density possible should be fine" and then DT comes in and says "nah this can't work"
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- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #94
Hmmmmm
Since we can't use a static average cumulonimbus value.
Can't we just scale the mass of the clouds above the mass of nimbostratus clouds since even the lowest end of cumulonimbus clouds have a higher water content (and thus a higher density) than nimbostratus clouds?
Since we can't use a static average cumulonimbus value.
Can't we just scale the mass of the clouds above the mass of nimbostratus clouds since even the lowest end of cumulonimbus clouds have a higher water content (and thus a higher density) than nimbostratus clouds?
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Imo, that is what I would do, lowball the density based on the visuals of the Onigashima clouds being storm clouds. I think that is a far better angle than trying to come up with an equation for a wacky planet that isn't earth. The cloud looks like a storm cloud, acts like a storm cloud, we should be able to approximate it as such at the very least lowballed with our less dense clouds irl.
- 29,790
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Are you saying we take the density of just the cloud itself for this, and ignore the density of the air as there is no way of safely calculating it?
- 21,137
- 30,090
- Thread starter
- #97
- 17,029
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Honestly that might not be a bad way to lowball the feat rn, just calc the density from the water contribution of a storm cloud and leave the air density unknown for the time being.
- 21,137
- 30,090
- Thread starter
- #99
Doodoo butter
- 29,790
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That may be worth a try.
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #101
Can't we just use the air density from a part of the planet that the feat is below?
- 29,790
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I think we should give Arc's suggestion a go.
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #103
Yeah that's trash. Calcing only the movement of water is like ignoring 90% of the feat.
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Would it be better than not calcing it at all?
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #106
Damage, let's not use "calc barely any part of the feat or not calc it at all" as the ultimatum
That's like saying since you can't find a specific shape of an object for a KE calc you use it with the volume of a damn molecule of air as a "lowball"
What's the issue with my suggestion?
- 29,790
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I'm just saying that Arc7's suggestion may work as a lowball. I don't think it's a perfect method of course.
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #108
That can be a lowball. No issue with that. I'm just saying mine can also be a midball.
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #109
Bump
Is my method fine to use?
Is my method fine to use?
- 11,365
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I'm fine with KT's method
- 29,790
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How about you try using both methods as different ends?
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I think KT isn't opposed to that. He mentioned how your suggestion could be a lowball and his could work as a midball afaik
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Sure, that's fine then. I'm curious to see both in action.
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I know I shouldn't comment here, but using just the water is too much of a downplay and is almost deleting the feat in itself.
Counting that One Piece's atmosphere clearly does not work linearly like ours, can't we simply take the lowest air density humans can survive and end it? It would prevent uneccessary assumptions and headaches.
Counting that One Piece's atmosphere clearly does not work linearly like ours, can't we simply take the lowest air density humans can survive and end it? It would prevent uneccessary assumptions and headaches.
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- Thread starter
- #115
high end then
- 11,365
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So now OP cloud calcs have a low-end, a mid-end, and a high-end
This is gonna be a headache to debate...
- 21,137
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- Thread starter
- #117
- 29,790
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Hold up - I know I just accepted the calcs but I think something might be a bit off in an earlier stage of the calc irrespective of whichever end is used. I need to take a closer look tomorrow morning.
EDIT: Yeah, I'm gonna have to make a proper response to this tomorrow.
EDIT: Yeah, I'm gonna have to make a proper response to this tomorrow.
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Okay, I've had some time to get my thoughts together.
I confess I didn't pay too much attention to the actual specifics of the calc beforehand aside from the air density and various options for that, but I've looked back further up and I do not think that the calc's method of using Inverse-Square Law is reliable here.
The way the calc has it currently set up is that the actual figure to move the clouds is just 0.75% of the surface area of a shockwave produced by the clashing Conqueror's Haki users.
(226442722 / 3.01060583e10) * 100 = 0.75215001493
This doesn't make a lot of sense though.
The mass of clouds is not like a pane of glass which can fracture and produce long "cracks". If a hemispherical shockwave struck a singular point in the base of the clouds, it would not cause a vertical split which results in the clouds moving horizontally away from each other.
But more importantly however, for this method to work the shockwave produced by Kaido and Luffy would have to come to a dead stop after travelling 69220.86 meters, otherwise the shockwave would have continued and lifted the rest of the clouds vertically. The calc has it so that the moment that 226442722 m^2 of the shockwave hits the clouds (in other words, just 0.75% of it), that the shockwave ends, despite the fact that area was carrying hundreds of Teratons of force in it.
I do not think this is how we typically calc cloud dispersal feats anyway; we just calc the movement of the clouds itself. I haven't seen any evidence to support that Kaido and Luffy produced an omnidirectional hemispherical shockwave that is equally strong across its entire surface area.
There are also scenes in the manga which contradict the Conqueror's cloud split being the product of an omnidirectional shockwave. When Big Mom and Kaido clashed for example, both of them were inside Onigashima at the time and yet we don't see their surroundings or the people nearby being blown apart by a massive shockwave which would have to go through the Skull Dome in order to reach the clouds.
I have to vote against this method.
I confess I didn't pay too much attention to the actual specifics of the calc beforehand aside from the air density and various options for that, but I've looked back further up and I do not think that the calc's method of using Inverse-Square Law is reliable here.
The way the calc has it currently set up is that the actual figure to move the clouds is just 0.75% of the surface area of a shockwave produced by the clashing Conqueror's Haki users.
(226442722 / 3.01060583e10) * 100 = 0.75215001493
This doesn't make a lot of sense though.
The mass of clouds is not like a pane of glass which can fracture and produce long "cracks". If a hemispherical shockwave struck a singular point in the base of the clouds, it would not cause a vertical split which results in the clouds moving horizontally away from each other.
But more importantly however, for this method to work the shockwave produced by Kaido and Luffy would have to come to a dead stop after travelling 69220.86 meters, otherwise the shockwave would have continued and lifted the rest of the clouds vertically. The calc has it so that the moment that 226442722 m^2 of the shockwave hits the clouds (in other words, just 0.75% of it), that the shockwave ends, despite the fact that area was carrying hundreds of Teratons of force in it.
I do not think this is how we typically calc cloud dispersal feats anyway; we just calc the movement of the clouds itself. I haven't seen any evidence to support that Kaido and Luffy produced an omnidirectional hemispherical shockwave that is equally strong across its entire surface area.
There are also scenes in the manga which contradict the Conqueror's cloud split being the product of an omnidirectional shockwave. When Big Mom and Kaido clashed for example, both of them were inside Onigashima at the time and yet we don't see their surroundings or the people nearby being blown apart by a massive shockwave which would have to go through the Skull Dome in order to reach the clouds.
I have to vote against this method.
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Yeah I agree with damage on the using a semi-omnidirectional hemisphere for the attack with ISL probably being bad. The clouds split like a sword is cutting them in half not like a giant ball is impacting and dispersing it in every direction.
ISL might still be salvageable using a different shape for the area of the attack but I am not knowledgeable on our ISL standards with shockwaves. All the ISL page mentions is using it for explosions, gravity, and coulombs, but it says that’s not the extensive list. Implying we can use ISL for other stuff but never giving a cut off of what we can’t use it for.
ISL might still be salvageable using a different shape for the area of the attack but I am not knowledgeable on our ISL standards with shockwaves. All the ISL page mentions is using it for explosions, gravity, and coulombs, but it says that’s not the extensive list. Implying we can use ISL for other stuff but never giving a cut off of what we can’t use it for.
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