One Piece Cloud Calculation Rule (For One Piece)

[Eseseso]

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[Eseseso]

Sorry but bump again.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Natural clouds from water do exist, but the issue isn't that natural clouds don't exist, but natural clouds with the density of irl clouds barely exist, and they're very dense.

"Regular clouds" are utilized by Doflamingo to fly. He attaches strings onto them and hangs off of them. That's flat out any clouds.

As Damage said, that could be a special function of his power more than all clouds being solid. Vulcanic eruptions launching sea stone into most clouds, which appears to be the requirement for them to be solid, seems somewhat unlikely.

You can tell the type of cloud by its darkness and color

We can classify clouds for sure. By that or different methods. However, the density of the same clouds can vary based on altitude, so I'm not sure how that helps us solve the problem.

Can't we just find a base density and find another density from a higher point in the planet based on the air density?

If you can somehow find regular cloud/air density at height 1 and regular cloud/air density at height 2, I wouldn't mind a linear interpolation of density for the values in between. But how would you get those? I suppose scaling those moon balloons and then minimum air density to provide enough lift?

 

[KingTempest]

As Damage said, that could be a special function of his power more than all clouds being solid.

His power is just to make strings, his attributes of being able to connect to clouds is a cloud density quality, which is why he couldn't do it to something like air

Vulcanic eruptions launching sea stone into most clouds, which appears to be the requirement for them to be solid, seems somewhat unlikely.

They don't all need to be that dense, but it's implied that most clouds in OP are solid

Even balloons that just fly up into space end up stuck under the Balloon terminal, a port for clouds right under it, being too thick to allow balloons to fall from there

We can classify clouds for sure. By that or different methods. However, the density of the same clouds can vary based on altitude, so I'm not sure how that helps us solve the problem.

That's fair

If you can somehow find regular cloud/air density at height 1 and regular cloud/air density at height 2, I wouldn't mind a linear interpolation of density for the values in between. But how would you get those? I suppose scaling those moon balloons and then minimum air density to provide enough lift?

It sucks for the bottom because the density of the clouds actually increase for the lower ends, like the sea clouds (7km above sea level) are thinner than island clouds (10km)

So I guess top of atmosphere being good enough for balloons to fly and not pop, and bottom being good enough for thick dense clouds strong enough for ships to sail on

 

[Eseseso]

We could consider using the density of one of the earth's least dense natural solids, pumice (.25 g/cm3, or 250 kg/m3).

Or average that with the density of one of the earth's least dense man made solids, aerogel (.00146 g/cm3, or 1.46g/cm3 with its encapsulated air).

Averaging them gets us a density of 126 kg/m3.

 

[KingTempest]

Can't just throw random solids, and finding density for clouds aren't that simple

 

[Eseseso]

Can't just throw random solids, and finding density for clouds aren't that simple

They're the least dense natural and man-made solid, so I figured that, since the clouds are solid, averaging the 2 would be a good low-ball.

 

[KingTempest]

Again, it's not that simple. Can't just find the average of 2 unrelated solids for a cloud's varying density through millions of meters

 

[Eseseso]

Again, it's not that simple. Can't just find the average of 2 unrelated solids for a cloud's varying density through millions of meters

Then what do you think is the best option here?

 

[KingTempest]

Then what do you think is the best option here?

We're trying to figure it out, be patient, this isn't easy at all

 

[Damage3245]

They don't all need to be that dense, but it's implied that most clouds in OP are solid

When is this the case?

 

[KingTempest]

"Regular clouds" are utilized by Doflamingo to fly. He attaches strings onto them and hangs off of them. That's flat out any clouds.r

 

[Damage3245]

Ah, I thought you might have meant something else I had missed.

That's still not the same as them being called solid; ordinarily clouds can't support a person's weight as the statement in Skypiea makes clear. I don't think we could assume that any ordinary person could throw a lasso of string around a cloud and ride it. So far it's just something exclusive to Doflamingo as it's possible Doflamingo's strings can just attach to clouds.

 

[SnookB]

After looking through all this my suggestion is this:

• Use regular clouds for sea-level cloud feats (we see Doffy surrounded by cumulus clouds during his flight moments)
• Use skypiea clouds for skypiea feats
• Use whatever type of storm clouds Kaido generates for Onigashima's feats, since the clouds are exclusively surrounding the Onigashima island because of his Dragon ability, and they're constantly storming. Another trait of his generated clouds. There's no reason for them not to be typical storm clouds since their creation is used via a devil fruit and not natural means, so defying the height limit for such clouds isn't out of the realm of possibility. Especially not for a dude who's clouds can carry islands

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I feel like Doffy is just using some kind of hax on the clouds to make them able to support his weight

 

[Kachon123]

I feel like Doffy is just using some kind of hax on the clouds to make them able to support his weight

That's not what his fruit does.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Okay, then what else could it be?

 

[Damage3245]

I feel like Doffy is just using some kind of hax on the clouds to make them able to support his weight

I wouldn't say that he is using hax on the clouds themselves (which wouldn't make much sense since his Devil Fruit doesn't provide cloud manipulation). Rather than he can create strings with unusual properties (his strings can even block out radio waves somehow) so it seems likely that he can just attach his strings to the clouds themselves.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

True..

 

[Eseseso]

Yeah, he's not using hax on the clouds, the clouds are probably just thick enough for him to use Tarzan-style.

 

[SnookB]

We don't have string density for Doffy, we just know they can be tiny enough to puncture skin without injury (for parasaito) and work through intenstines when Doffy was patching himself up.

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[Eseseso]

Bump

 

[KingTempest]

@DontTalkDT what steps would we need with the units here

If you can somehow find regular cloud/air density at height 1 and regular cloud/air density at height 2, I wouldn't mind a linear interpolation of density for the values in between.

In order to find out a new barometric formula

(Please for everybody else, if you don't know, don't respond)

 

[Damage3245]

@Eseseso I can assure you that KT has not forgotten about this thread at any point. It doesn't need daily bumps.

 

[KingTempest]

If you can somehow find regular cloud/air density at height 1 and regular cloud/air density at height 2, I wouldn't mind a linear interpolation of density for the values in between.

Aight.

Balloons can travel up to 32,000 meters in the air.

So since this doesn't show 32,000 meters, I used its feet equivalent. 32,000 m = 104986.88 feet, so around 100,000 feet
Air at 100,000 feet is 0.00106 lbs/ft3 dense, or 0.01697957118 kg/m3 dense.

And since this reaches to the moon, you can either use distance from earth to moon, or could just use this 353,590,000 meters distance for the earth to moon.

Now, on the ground level

With that string density utilizing cotton, the clouds (maybe 2km up) would be 1550 kg/m3.

Now if that doesn't work either, you can use the point in the OP

The planet also has enough air to breathe at extremely high elevations, even though it admittedly does get harder to breathe at higher altitudes. According to this website, the max altitude you can breathe in the real world is 20,000 feet, or 6,096 meters. In Chapter 238, we see that the Oxygen is scarce at 7,000 meters high in the sky on the White Sea, but it's still enough to breathe there. This is brought up again in Chapter 242 when they reach the White-White Sea, 10,000 meters high, where there is still enough air to breathe.

Air density at 6,000 meters is 0.6601 kg/m3, that would be the density at 10,000 meters

So

Air density at 353,590,000 meters is 0.01697957118 kg/m3
Air density at 10,000 meters is 0.6601 kg/m3

 

[Eseseso]

• Use whatever type of storm clouds Kaido generates for Onigashima's feats, since the clouds are exclusively surrounding the Onigashima island because of his Dragon ability, and they're constantly storming. Another trait of his generated clouds. There's no reason for them not to be typical storm clouds since their creation is used via a devil fruit and not natural means, so defying the height limit for such clouds isn't out of the realm of possibility. Especially not for a dude who's clouds can carry islands

I mean, cumulonimbus clouds (aka storm clouds) are 1-3 kg/m3, so are you proposing we use that?

 

[KingTempest]

Aight.

Balloons can travel up to 32,000 meters in the air.

So since this doesn't show 32,000 meters, I used its feet equivalent. 32,000 m = 104986.88 feet, so around 100,000 feet
Air at 100,000 feet is 0.00106 lbs/ft3 dense, or 0.01697957118 kg/m3 dense.

And since this reaches to the moon, you can either use distance from earth to moon, or could just use this 353,590,000 meters distance for the earth to moon.

Now, on the ground level

With that string density utilizing cotton, the clouds (maybe 2km up) would be 1550 kg/m3.

Now if that doesn't work either, you can use the point in the OP



Air density at 6,000 meters is 0.6601 kg/m3, that would be the density at 10,000 meters

So

Air density at 353,590,000 meters is 0.01697957118 kg/m3
Air density at 10,000 meters is 0.6601 kg/m3

Only issue with this is that some clouds super high flat out can't be less than a kg in density

 

[Eseseso]

Only issue with this is that some clouds super high flat out can't be less than a kg in density

Why not?

They're not storm clouds (asides from the Wano ones), so unless you're talking about the thicc Skypiea clouds (in which case I apologize for not understanding), I don't see the issue.

 

[KingTempest]

Why not?

They're not storm clouds (asides from the Wano ones), so unless you're talking about the thicc Skypiea clouds (in which case I apologize for not understanding), I don't see the issue.

...

Only issue with this is that some clouds super high flat out can't be less than a kg in density

I just said... that the clouds that are very high... can't be less than a kilogram in density... like before...

Now I understand why Damage said this

Just to note as well this thread should probably be left up to Calc Group Members unless anyone posts anything specifically related to a calcing method. We don't need a lot of users coming in to be grateful that this thread is happening.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Aight.

Balloons can travel up to 32,000 meters in the air.

So since this doesn't show 32,000 meters, I used its feet equivalent. 32,000 m = 104986.88 feet, so around 100,000 feet
Air at 100,000 feet is 0.00106 lbs/ft3 dense, or 0.01697957118 kg/m3 dense.

And since this reaches to the moon, you can either use distance from earth to moon, or could just use this 353,590,000 meters distance for the earth to moon.

Now, on the ground level

With that string density utilizing cotton, the clouds (maybe 2km up) would be 1550 kg/m3.

Now if that doesn't work either, you can use the point in the OP



Air density at 6,000 meters is 0.6601 kg/m3, that would be the density at 10,000 meters

So

Air density at 353,590,000 meters is 0.01697957118 kg/m3
Air density at 10,000 meters is 0.6601 kg/m3

Hmmmm... so, one can do that balloon-based density calculation in principle for any gas, not just helium. One just needs to know the density of the gas.
With that in mind, is there a particular reason why use helium, instead of hydrogen or a fictional gas?


(btw. the eisen dial article on one piece wiki points out something interesting. Namely that in One Piece clouds can be sturdy, yet not very dense. Also that they can't survive air pressure at ground level. Probably changes nothing at this point and I don't know what it's based on, but felt like mentioning it.)

 

[KingTempest]

Hmmmm... so, one can do that balloon-based density calculation in principle for any gas, not just helium. One just needs to know the density of the gas.
With that in mind, is there a particular reason why use helium, instead of hydrogen or a fictional gas?

The balloons rose, and since Oda notes most balloons in his verse to be helium based, I just assumed they were helium balloons.

(btw. the eisen dial article on one piece wiki points out something interesting. Namely that in One Piece clouds can be sturdy, yet not very dense.

These are a specific type of cloud made on the white white sea from the eisen dial, but the fact that it's "not dense" isn't true in the slightest.

Also that they can't survive air pressure at ground level. Probably changes nothing at this point and I don't know what it's based on, but felt like mentioning it.)

Yeah it's just cause of the atmosphere differences, which is why the Vegapunks remade that same cloud due to altering the atmosphere.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

"Bump @Damage3245" ~ Eseseso

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi I know this thread isn't exactly speeding along, but we don't need repeated bumps for it.

And this thread is preferably Calc Group Members only (plus KingTempest), so that's extra reason not to bump it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi I know this thread isn't exactly speeding along, but we don't need repeated bumps for it.

And this thread is preferably Calc Group Members only (plus KingTempest), so that's extra reason not to bump it.

Man gave me the Eseseso treatment lololol, but ok

 

[Damage3245]

Sorry Arc7, no exceptions. I don't like Eseseo doing it so I can't be happy if anyone else does it either.

 

[DontTalkDT]

The balloons rose, and since Oda notes most balloons in his verse to be helium based, I just assumed they were helium balloons.

Hmmmm... it doesn't strictly say "most balloons", but several, I suppose. Then again, do those kinds really fly to the moon?

I suppose I might be fine with the helium. (Although I do wonder if the balloon is big enough...)

Not so much with the cotton argument as I don't think cloud sturdiness even relates to density at this point. I suppose you can use the breathable air argument.

These are a specific type of cloud made on the white white sea from the eisen dial, but the fact that it's "not dense" isn't true in the slightest.

That looks more like a feat of sturdiness than density, though? Density is just mass per volume and stuff, it doesn't relate to durability / firmness and stuff.

Yeah it's just cause of the atmosphere differences, which is why the Vegapunks remade that same cloud due to altering the atmosphere.

Well, air pressure is an atmospheric difference. Mostly just was pointing it out as evidence that air density at high altitudes is probably indeed lower, but we have already established as much.

 

[KingTempest]

Hmmmm... it doesn't strictly say "most balloons", but several, I suppose. Then again, do those kinds really fly to the moon?

I mean true but oh well, and yeah they flew to the moon

I suppose I might be fine with the helium. (Although I do wonder if the balloon is big enough...)

Idk how I'd be able to calc it at that angle, but meh

Not so much with the cotton argument as I don't think cloud sturdiness even relates to density at this point. I suppose you can use the breathable air argument.

That's fair

That looks more like a feat of sturdiness than density, though? Density is just mass per volume and stuff, it doesn't relate to durability / firmness and stuff.

Different clouds on the white-white sea are made from compressing already existing clouds and increasing their density.

Air pressure is an atmospheric difference.

Ignore me

 

[KingTempest]

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[KingTempest]

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