One Piece: AP Revision of High Tiers

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Well, I guess giving the list of how the affected characters' profiles have been, since they are being cast for Luffy Gear 4th and packing other things:

Doflamingo: 6-C with Black Knight, At least 6-C himself. High 6-C with Awakening and Durability in general as High 6-C

Katakuri: High 6-C

Cracker: Original Cracker - AP High 6-C with At least 6-C, likely higher in Durability. Biscuit Soldier - AP and Durability as At least 6-C

Ace: High 6-C

Marco: High 6-C

Vista: High 6-C

Jack: At least 6-C, likely higher

Luffy: 6-C in Base and Gear 2nd, At least 6-C with Gear 3rd, High 6-C with Gear 4th variants. higher with his Strongest Attacks

Fujitora: At least 6-C, likely higher, with High 6-C Environmental Destructive Capacity

Jozu: High 6-C

Zephyr: Prime - High 6-C. Film Z - At least 6-C

Shiki: Prime - High 6-C and Old Shiki as Unknow

Gild: At least 6-C

Smoothie: High 6-C

Blackbeard: Pre Gura Gura no Mi - High 6-C and Post Gura Gura no Mi - Likely at least High 6-C

Sabo: At least 6-C, likely higher

Zunisha: Likely High 6-C

Inuarashi: At least 6-C, likely higher

Nekomamushi: At least 6-C, likely higher

 

[Js250476]

Seems okay to me

 

[The_Calaca]

I agree with this.

 

[fandom_1cheapskate]

would this affect eneru/Enel idk which is preferred since he can literally restart his heart upon fatal injury?

 

[fandom_9TailAcno]

And also now I will talk about adding Immortality Type 2 to Whitebeard. It's quite simple, he had two holes in his chest, pierced by hundreds of swords, shots, and a few dozen cannonballs, and he was still able to fight for a reasonable amount of time after losing half of his head. I think those motives are enough for Immortality Type 2 to Whitebeard to be accepted.

He dies mean he is not immortal

 

[Stefano4444]

Fujitora should be put at At least High 6-C as he should be as strong or at least be comparable to other Admirals, the same should be apply with Prime Zephyr (as he was become the youngest Admiral of the time) and Prime Shiki.

For Luffy i agree with the High 6-C for Gear 4th Variants, but i'm not sure with the Higher with his Strongest Attacks, nothing suggest that he would be able to oneshot Top Yonkou Commanders with his strongest attacks, let alone equally match the power of Admirals ad Yonkou.

And i don't think WB should have Type 2 Immortality, he was able to remain alive after having two holes in his chest (or one hole in the chest and half of his face melted), but he was still fatally injured and he would have eventually die in anycase, even if he was able to escape the war on Marineford along with his crew, so no WB is not immortal he had only insane Endurance.

 

[Captain_Torch]

^

I agree with Stefano about everything except "at least high 6-C". I think he should be High 6-C solidly, but without an "at least"

 

[Damage3245]

I have some objections, but sadly I don't have time to respond tonight. I will write a response to this tomorrow.

I'll just say right now that I also disagree with Type 2 immortality for Whitebeard; he's just got a lot of endurance, not immortality.

 

[Casban2000]

Type 2 for WB isnt justified. The dude just had a lot of endurance and stamina. He died from those wounds. Type 2 is literally ''not dying'' from the wounds but not regenerating neither.

 

[The_Calaca]

Fair enough. I think he shouldn't then.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

So in that case I will remove the proposed Immortality Type 2 to Whitbeard and comment about the difference between the Fujitora AP and his EDC.

 

[Damage3245]

Before this goes through, can I check that it will wait until tomorrow at least because I have a few points about the scaling that may impact these ratings.

 

[Enryu_The_Red_Tower]

Fujitora should be put at At least High 6-C as he should be as strong or at least be comparable to other Admirals, the same should be apply with Prime Zephyr (as he was become the youngest Admiral of the time) and Prime Shiki.
For Luffy i agree with the High 6-C for Gear 4th Variants, but i'm not sure with the Higher with his Strongest Attacks, nothing suggest that he would be able to oneshot Top Yonkou Commanders with his strongest attacks, let alone equally match the power of Admirals ad Yonkou.

Well Fujitora did not show us or was quoted with him being comparable to other admirals, the most we see is he briefly confronting Luffy Gear 3rd, beat Law without much fuss, stop the bird-cage for a brief period, blocked a Doflamingo attack and have defeated Jack, he literally did not fight with a Top Tiers or easily defeated a High Tier to put in High 6-C, in addition Fuji already has High 6-C with his Environmental Destructive Capacity, and also Prime Zephyr did not show us anything relevant to put on High 6-C, and also just why he trained Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru does not mean that he is comparable to them adults (since Zephyr trained them in adolescence).

Literally Luffy Gear 4th one-shot Doflamingo, Katakuri (although he got up after the direct hit but then fainted) and Cracker along with his biscuit soldiers with his Strongest Attacks, so we'll just put the "higher" because Luffy Gear 4th with his strongest attacks, managed to destroy Dofla's threads in a direct blow by destroying the God and continuing that they were reinforced with Busōshoku Haki, while with his blows like Gomu Gomu in Double Culverin were not able to destroy them while these threads were without Haki, Tank-Man: Full Version was able to one-shot Cracker and severeal biscuit soldiers that only one of these soldiers was able to effortlessly resist Elephant's 3rd Gear Gear Luffy and King Cobra caused devastating damage to Katakuri to the point of fainting shortly thereafter and Katakuri was able to withstand the normal blows of Bound-Man and Snake-Man with little damage, then it would be appropriate to give Gear 4th Luffy with his Strongest Attacks the "higher"

 

[Gear2ndGandalf]

I agree with Luffys strongest Gear 4th attacks (ex: King Kong Gun, Cannonball, and King Kobra) being High 6-C, but I'm not too sure about the form itself yet. Potentially baseline High 6-C like you stated before Enryu.

 

[Damage3245]

My issues with the OP scaling currently:

Luffy gets his 6-C rating from destroying the Black Knight that Doffy creates as seen here and here.

However, the only reason the Black Knight is 6-C is by scaling it to the durability for the Birdcage which is questionable.

The Black Knight has two glaring antifeats that suggest it isn't as durable as the Birdcage at all;

• Jeet and Abdullah easily cut and pierce the body of the Black Knight.

• Kyros easily cuts off the head of the Black Knight.

So this should be taken into consideration that the Black Knight's durability does not scale to the Birdcage. It can't be used as the basis of Luffy being 6-C. On top of that, Doflamingo was sent into a panic by Fujitora's first meteor which was only calced to be just over a dozen meters across. If his Birdcage could effortlessly withstand a meteor a couple of kilometers across, why would Doflamingo be so flustered by Fujitora's first meteorite?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

About the Black Knight, didn't it take hits from Luffy? If so, it could be that it's weaker to cutting and piercing attacks.

 

[Damage3245]

The times when Luffy hit Black Knight before destroying it were:

• The Black Knight slapping aside a basic Luffy punch.

• Luffy using Octopus Stamp to block its attack.

Seeing as the first instance is a completely basic punch (not even using Haki), and the second instance was more of a block then an attack, all I'm seeing is that Black Knight's durability has no impressive feats.

And this is further contradictory if we remember that Zoro and Fujitora were pressing their swords into the Birdcage and didn't once cut it...

I think a reasonable conclusion is simply that the Birdcage is a lot more durable because it is designed to be that way; it is a prison to trap enemies and it meant to be inescapable.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

I'm not knowledgeable on OP; so assuming what you're proposing goes through, how would the stats look like?

 

[Damage3245]

Well, we'd need to find a new justification for Luffy's base form and his Gear 4 form.

He wouldn't scale to the 85 gigatons feat of the Birdcage, so his Gear 4 form wouldn't be High 6-C based on that either.

If we cannot find a feat or calc from Dressrosa or Whole Cake Island, then we'd have to use his tier for the Punk Hazard arc which is "At least High 7-A, likely 6-C" and go from there.

 

[Standuser081]

So basically only Luffy's strongest attacks would be able to scale to the birdcage?

 

[Damage3245]

Luffy's strongest attacks have never been used against the Birdcage. On what basis do they scale?

 

[Standuser081]

Oh sorry. I just realized that the Birdcage's durability isn't the same as Doflamingo's.

 

[Antvasima]

Damage3245 usually makes sense regarding the One Piece scaling. Perhaps it would be better to close this thread so he can create a new one instead?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Agree, I would like to see what Damage has to say. He generally provides a lot of scans for context to make it easier to understand (it's hard to remember something as long as One Piece). I agree with you, Ant.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think a new thread is necessary yet; I'll try and summarize my thoughts:

Luffy's keys for Punk Hazard, Dressrosa and Whole Cake Island can probably be condensed down to this:

Tier: At least High 7-A in base, likely 6-C with G2 & G3, at least 6-C with G4

Attack Potency: At least Large Mountain level in base (Stronger than Zoro and Sanji), likely Island level with Gear 2 and Gear 3 (Able to contend with Fujitora), at least Island level with Gear 4 (Many times stronger than before)

(Same for Striking Strength and durability)

Fujitora should be At least Island level physically for being roughly comparable to the other Admirals and considered a monster by Doflamingo.

 

[Antvasima]

I corrected the tier statistic from 7-A to High 7-A in the above post, to match the attack potency.

Anyway, how would this affect the other One Piece characters?

 

[Damage3245]

Ah, thank you.

Anyway, as far as other profiles go,

Doflaming would be 6-C; Island level, with Island level+ Birdcage.

Law should probably be At least High 7-A, 6-C with Gamma Knife.

Cracker, Katakuri and Smoothie should all be At least 6-C.

Comparable characters to those Yonko Commanders will probably be At least 6-C as well.

The original Admirals and Yonko should still be At Least High 6-C, so they're unchanged.

Can anyone think of any more changes? I want to have this thread stay active a while longer before changes made.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that seems fine, but I would prefer more staff input.

 

[Stefano4444]

Law should probably be At least High 7-A, 6-C with Gamma Knife.

Shouldn't Law be 6-C without Gamme Knife due of him be stronger than Pica and that he had defeated Vergo?

 

[Damage3245]

I don't think it was ever explicitly stated that Law was stronger than Pica.

And I'm somewhat against Vergo's rating. I think he might need to be downgraded slightly.

Pica - by virtue of his Devil Fruit - should be stronger than any of Doflamingo's other officers.

 

[Standuser081]

But I thought

Law > Vergo > Pica

 

[Damage3245]

Except we have nothing to base Vergo > Pica on.

Law is undoubtedly superior to Vergo (though not drastically above him since Vergo could still beat him up heavily).

 

[Stefano4444]

I don't think it was ever explicitly stated that Law was stronger than Pica.
And I'm somewhat against Vergo's rating. I think he might need to be downgraded slightly.

Pica - by virtue of his Devil Fruit - should be stronger than any of Doflamingo's other officers.

Disagree, for how much strong it was Pica, we see that he has never stand a change again Zoro.

And Sanji, who could fight on par with Vergo, should be on the same level of Zoro.

 

[Standuser081]

Yeah, that too.

Because Vergo > Sanji = Zoro > Pica

 

[Damage3245]

Sanji has been demonstrably weaker than Zoro since the timeskip.

Zoro was stronger than Pica, yes, but perhaps that simply means Pica is overrated? He has impressive environmental destruction because he is able to rearrange the island via his Devil Fruit but in terms of durability he is rubbish.

EDIT: Vergo's current profile is very misleading, and deliberately written to try and make Vergo seem more impressive than he is.

 

[Standuser081]

Or probably because it's easier to cut someone than beating them to death. Sanji maybe weaker than Zoro, but not by much.

 

[Damage3245]

Sanji against Vergo who isn't using Armament Haki; Sanji almost breaks his leg.

Zoro against Pica who is using Armamment Haki; Zoro one-shots him.

There isn't anything in the manga suggesting Vergo is more powerful than Pica; it's just pretty clear that Sanji is too weak.

Zoro can cut through Pica's stone golem body and through immense blocks of stone using air slashes, but Sanji couldn't kick through a heavy metal door in the Punk Hazard Arc.

Pica should be At least High 7-A, and so should Vergo and Sanji. Zoro should be At least High 7-A, likely 6-C.

 

[Standuser081]

Well tbf, like I said earlier, it's easier to cut someone than beat them to death. For example, It'll take a long time to punch someone until they die, but I can just insta-kill them by sticking a knife to their head.

But yeah, I agree with the revisions you proposed.

 

[Damage3245]

Okay, thank you.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that Damage3245 seems to make sense.