On the Naruto god tiers Downgrade.

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; regarding Kaguya, we don't have any timeframe or method for how exactly these dimensions were made.

It's implied she used the ETSO to do so for all of them. And the timeframe wouldn't really matter since the TSO is launched once. It's not like she had it in her mind that "okay today I'll create 100 km worth of earth, space or air and I expect to finish by next year". She was going to use the ETSO to destroy and recreate her dimension in one attack against Team seven.

And what about my other point with Toneri and the chakra modes?

 

[Damage3245]

Kaguya's ordinary AP is not scaled to her ETSO. I already addressed the Toneri calc earlier.

 

[Naeblis495]

oh boy here we go again .

I personally disagree with the downgrade as i think there is enough feats to claim a planet level but if most calcs and statements about them being planet level really are proven wrong then i guess there is nothing to do until more feat come around or they get recalc'd .

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; I believe you're mistaken, here is where the calc gets the Kinetic Energy:
> KE = 1/2 * 6.281327653 e22 kg * (5152.208975 m/sec)^2 = 8.336972943 e29 J

They aren't multiplying the result by the timeframe.

And if they did, the resulting AP would be 656 zettatons of energy which is far higher than my result. I still advocate using my calc since the problem with the old one was in earth's size which mine doesn't rely on so as to cause less arguments.
The reason why I multiply everything with the total timeframe is because of the Chakra Modes.

In the series, it's been shown that chakra modes have a total store of energy in them e.g. Sage mode having three rasenshuriken's worth of energy before running out and disappearing.

And it's also been shown that using too much chakra that your mode doesn't have access to will cause it to dissipate like when KCM naruto tries to perform the bijuudama.

We also know that if a character is hit by an attack that is equal to or greater than their mode's energy, they will be knocked out of it immediately. Example being KCM Naruto losing his cloak after tenpenchii and BSM Naruto losing his cloak and construct after juubito slams him into the ground and Jigen kicking Naruto out of his SPSM cloak.

And we know that characters in this series can concentrate the power of their chakra mode into one attack, e.g Naruto concentrating his BSM into one fist to knock to Toneri out of his TCM, and Toneri absorbing Naruto's entire chakra cloak to blast the earth with it. Or just straight up charge their normal attacks so long as their modes don't run out.

All this points to my point that TCM Toneri and Naruto should be at least small planet level with my calc or planet level using the other one since toneri's cloak never dissipates while doing this and Naruto has to concentrate his entire chakra mode in one attack to beat him. It would also be somewhat consistent with the character lore and statements of kaguya's creating her dimensions and Naruto being able to fight and harm her.

@Damage3245 this is my address to your address on toneri address. And why is kaguya's ETSO not scalable to her normal AP?

 

[AppleLord]

Give me one good reason why can't we have Kaguya be At least Planet level for creating dimensions where planet, moons and suns exist? If I am not mistaken Soul King was given the same treatment for creating Soul Society which has a starry sky.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

Actually AppleLord Makes a valid Point.

Soul King was given a Planet level feat for his Presence and Reitsu kept three planets from merging. Reitsu is used to preform various types of abilities/attacks

Kaguya destroyed her dimension via a ETSB which is entirely made up of Chakra. Chakra is used to preform different types of abilities/attacks.

I smell a CRT on the horizon.

 

[Damage3245]

@AppleLord; it has been discussed and debated for years and the last conclusion was that Kaguya's ESTB does not scale to her ordinary statistics.

There is even a Discussion rule for this.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

And exactly what does Soul King does besides sit there?

Even him creating the Soul Society and such is there even a timeframe for that?

 

[Davidsteel1]

Naruto thread > Bleach brought up to justify a stat change

Seems legit

 

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord; it has been discussed and debated for years and the last conclusion was that Kaguya's ESTB does not scale to her ordinary statistics.
There is even a Discussion rule for this.

I remember that now. Never mind.

 

[The_Popular_Loser]

CRT here I come.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

Still ignoring my point that Toneri should be planet level due to use of the total timeframe which I gave valid justifications for. And let's not even bring in statement's like momoshiki being able to vaporise multiple countries worth of earth with his bijuudama or juubito summoning the very large god tree in under a second

 

[MostPowerfull]

This is not a discussion about Bleach, so ... I think you better leave Bleach alone.

Particularly, I see a lot of things wrong on the back of Bleach, especially the timeframe. But I'm sure it will be reviewed in the future, just as Naruto and One Piece will be.

So ... relax! Don't start a Bleach x Naruto battle, please!

 

[Ruthlessleader]

This is not a discussion about Bleach, so ... I think you better leave Bleach alone.
Particularly, I see a lot of things wrong on the back of Bleach, especially the timeframe. But I'm sure it will be reviewed in the future, just as Naruto and One Piece will be.

So ... relax! Don't start a Bleach x Naruto battle, please!

Look can you at least speak on the points I raised. I understand that this isn't a bleach thread or any other verse thread but to see standards that Naruto is being held to that other universes aren't is pretty infuriating

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader; what standard is Naruto being held at that other Universes aren't?

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; what standard is Naruto being held at that other Universes aren't?

In the bleach thread I mentioned you in, Sigurd snake eye says that the timeframe of ywhach creating the three realms is irrelevant. In the DCEU Superman page , the timeframe for him moving a tectonic plate isn't given because we don't know yet it's not struck off and his feat of being resurrected by one mother box is taken as proof that he is large island level, when in fact you need all three of them to slowly terraform the earth.

In fact, why don't you explain this link right here which doesn't use timeframes and contains a reference in the last section that gives clarification on kaguya's feat of creating her dimension.

 

[Damage3245]

Kaguya is already rated Large Star level with her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Celestial creation feats don't need a timeframe... I advise you familiarize yourself with the standards before you go on a rant about Naruto and Bleach.

If you have an issue with the ratings of a series make a CRT with evidence as to why said rating is wrong.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; regarding Kaguya, we don't have any timeframe or method for how exactly these dimensions were made.

@Sigurd Snake in The Eye give your advice to damage who said this and made me think the standards were different.

And Damage my point on toneri still stands, he is small planet or planet level based on my point about chakra mode mechanics.

As well as Hamura, Hagoromo, Sasuke and Naruto all scaling to kaguya since she could create a large star level dimension and they were able to seal her off and forcibly manipulate all her chakra. At the very least they should be planet level based on that alone.

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader; I've already explained that we don't multiply the K.E. feat by the timeframe.

Sealing Kaguya through the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is more akin to hax than them actually scaling directly to her. You can't just say that they're Planet level just because they sealed her.

I don't want to keep going back and forth about this without end, so I'll stop here unless anything new comes up.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The standards have no relation as to why they were downgraded.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; I've already explained that we don't multiply the K.E. feat by the timeframe.
Sealing Kaguya through the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei is more akin to hax than them actually scaling directly to her. You can't just say that they're Planet level just because they sealed her.

I don't want to keep going back and forth about this without end, so I'll stop here unless anything new comes up.

I've given reasons and justifications on why this is a special case as there chakra modes have energy limits and they can freely use all the energy at once. I'm saying that the form itself has planet levels of energy within it due to the timeframe. What you are basically saying is that for every second of the one hour Toneri fights, he is using his cloaks entire worth of energy and constantly recharging it in less than a second so he can continue to fight Naruto.

And them sealing her means they do scale to her. Why would hagoromo have to give them a powerup if they wouldn't have to scale to her. You also straight up ignored Naruto injuring and overwhelming her on multiple occasions.

But I understand your frustrations. Can I at least get another staff member to take a look at this thread since you don't want to anymore.

@Sigurd Snake in The Eye thank you for your clarification.

 

[Damage3245]

Kaguya's durability is noted on her profile to be pretty inconsistent.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

Kaguya's durability is noted on her profile to be pretty inconsistent.

I thought you said you would stop replying. And kaguya's durability is inconsistent based on what?


@Jvando @Mindovin since you're no longer interested

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader, I meant to stop, but I wanted to address that last point since you said I had been ignoring it.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader, I meant to stop, but I wanted to address that last point since you said I had been ignoring it.

You also just ignored my question on what made her durability inconsistent.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

Seems like I'll be creating a new thread on chakra modes and their mechanics since you don't want to actually understand my point. I frankly haven't seen a good reason why the god tiers were downgraded when they really shouldn't have.

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader; they were downgraded because their previous calcs were re-calced and ended up being lower. It's not complicated.

 

[The_Calaca]

If a rating relies on calcs based on flawed factors, that's a pretty good reason to downgrade them. The 5-B Naruto relied on a calc with an assumed timeframe, which is a huge nope here.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

If a rating relies on calcs based on flawed factors, that's a pretty good reason to downgrade them. The 5-B Naruto relied on a calc with an assumed timeframe, which is a huge nope here.

Or change them to a timeframe that is closest to what would be standard in universe. And can you please listen to my reason for Toneri being planet level based on the total timeframe?

@Damage3245 please listen to my Toneri TCM argument.

 

[The_Calaca]

I don't care enough about Naruto to discuss the calcs. I'm just adressing the reason as why they were downgraded in the first place.

Just so you know, said feat happened off-screen. No timeframe can be used unless stated or shown. The previous one used 30 minutes and yet was 5-B. There's no evidence of any timeframe therefore it can't be assumed.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

I don't care enough about Naruto to discuss the calcs. I'm just adressing the reason as why they were downgraded in the first place.

Just so you know, said feat happened off-screen. No timeframe can be used unless stated or shown. The previous one used 30 minutes and yet was 5-B. There's no evidence of any timeframe therefore it can't be assumed.

There actually might not be a need for a timeframe. Naruto and sasuke only put the seal on kaguya once and that one time contained all the chakra needed to seal her and form a chibaku tensei.

An imperfect analogy would be to compare the seal to a rocket and the chakra needed to pull of the sealing as fuel. Once they successfully place the seal on kaguya, the chakra begins to act and it seals her, gathers up all the rocks needed to form the moon and pushes her out into orbit. The chakra in the seal is all that is needed for all that. And if you want to know how much energy is being used to push the moon out of the earth, use the moon's escape velocity to do so and calculate how much energy is used until it reaches it's current orbit then it stops.

It sounds confusing but I can do a calc on it.

 

[Omimi]

@Ruthlessleader, I meant to stop, but I wanted to address that last point since you said I had been ignoring it.

You also just ignored my question on what made her durability inconsistent.

people think her durability inconsistent cuz of one PIS(sakura hurting her)

 

[Omimi]

If a rating relies on calcs based on flawed factors, that's a pretty good reason to downgrade them. The 5-B Naruto relied on a calc with an assumed timeframe, which is a huge nope here.

bold is wrong

most calc in this wiki has assumed timeframe

Jvando even posted on last downgrade crt but no one care about that

 

[The_Calaca]

Assuming timeframes for off-screen feats IS wrong. If other verses use it, it doesn't mean it's okay. Two wrongs don't make a right, and such verses should be revised as well.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

Assuming timeframes for off-screen feats IS wrong. If other verses use it, it doesn't mean it's okay. Two wrongs don't make a right, and such verses should be revised as well.

If we want get the time needed for hagoromo and Hamura to move the moon, why don't we just use a simple time=distance/speed formula? We can use the earth's escape velocity (which is 11.2km/s) and distance from earth to moon(385,000km) to get a time of 9 hours, 32 minutes and 55 seconds. I use the escape velocity of the earth as the absolute minimum velocity the moon needs to leave the earth and get to it's orbit. No other calc uses a slower distance and if they did, it would be wrong as the moon wouldn't even move at all from the earth.

 

[Damage3245]

@Ruthlessleader; we have a replacement calc which uses the necessary velocity to get into orbit.

 

[Ruthlessleader]

@Ruthlessleader; we have a replacement calc which uses the necessary velocity to get into orbit.

Maybe it's because I'm confusing it for the Toneri calc but are they constantly applying the same amount of energy per second or do they just need to apply this energy once and leave it to work like that?

 

[AppleLord]

Can we scale Urashiki to Toneri at least for now? Is odd to have him at unknown when Urashiki immobilised Toneri by his chakra rod, leading to Urashiki petrifying him in a time freeze for ten thousand years before departing.

 

[Omimi]

Assuming timeframes for off-screen feats IS wrong. If other verses use it, it doesn't mean it's okay. Two wrongs don't make a right, and such verses should be revised as well.

i am taking about naruto and sasuke on-screen feat which took only 2 panels in manga and less than 10 sec in anime