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Also while I'm here I remember there being statements Mangog threatened a thousand universes (Odin beat him even with the Odinsword)
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Odin Upgrade
- Thread starter Hykuu
- Start date
- Status
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I'm going to agree the omniversal statement is ridiculous
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There's still another 2-A statement in that scan.
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Dude you understand that the Omniverse is all of marvel... Thats saying Hela + Mephisto = OAA which is ridiculous in itself.
This is cleary just hype slang
This is cleary just hype slang
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Just save yourself the trouble Odin is not going to be 2-A. It is a outlier which Marvel has a shit ton of.
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I mean there is still a lot of 2-A stuff there mate
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I'm just being honest I've been through this before and used to do the same thing. Good Luck...
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Is there a reason everyone keeps harping on only one out of the two 2-A statements in that scan? And also why everyone harps on that specifically as if it's the only scan there.
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What were the previous reasons for the 2-C downgrade, actually?
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Bizarre. I recalled a 2-A Odin and Mephisto for a while.
Anyways going through the scans, except for Yggdrasil stuff, the rest of the feats are frankly, quite weird:
Anyways going through the scans, except for Yggdrasil stuff, the rest of the feats are frankly, quite weird:
- First and Second one could be attributed to exaggeration by both sources, as Mephisto isn't a reliable narrator, and the second feat has three different degrees there, galaxy, universe and multiverse. One can just assume Strange panicked, anyhow I don't think that scan is a good proof tbh.
- Infinite Embassy one isn't quantifiable in my opinion.
- In the last scan provided, it is stated that Odin only defeated a tiny part of Infinity, as such I don't think Odin should compare to the abstract
- We are definitely not going to use What-If comics are sources no matter whatever context there exists.
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- Yes, Mephisto usually lies about shit like this, but we literally see Odin overpowering him aswell, so he wouldn't be lying within this context, and he has literally no reason to, it's like trying to discredit anything Lucifer says by the same logic. Strange panicked? He literally sensed it and it's not too far fetched considering it was across every plane of reality, and that same Seth was going to "destroy Yggdrasil in an Instant"
- I guess? It's still a good supporting feat that they shake a 2-A realm, it's basically like the WoV feat in DBS
- Yes, that's why I put all caps on a fraction and made it clear it wasn't scaling to full infinity, anyways, a fraction of Infinity, is still 2-A
- What why? They make sense for beings who are multiversal constants, we know Odin exists across every reality, I don't see the justification here, I would get this completely if I was upgrading SPIDERMAN, but not Odin, the dude tears the fabric of the multiverse for the lols and whose death was across ALL planes of reality.
Okay, that's fine I guess
- I guess? It's still a good supporting feat that they shake a 2-A realm, it's basically like the WoV feat in DBS
- Yes, that's why I put all caps on a fraction and made it clear it wasn't scaling to full infinity, anyways, a fraction of Infinity, is still 2-A
- What why? They make sense for beings who are multiversal constants, we know Odin exists across every reality, I don't see the justification here, I would get this completely if I was upgrading SPIDERMAN, but not Odin, the dude tears the fabric of the multiverse for the lols and whose death was across ALL planes of reality.
Okay, that's fine I guess
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The point is that a galactic threat that may or may not have had a link to a character introduced decades later, who in turn is scaled from a Galactus feat decades later still, cannot be reliably scaled to 2-A from the last mentioned feat in a setting as ridiculously inconsistent as Marvel.
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It says a fraction of Infinity's power. A fraction of a 2-A being would still be 2-A.
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To address the points:
- Mephisto could very well be bluffing so as to either intimidate or even appeal to Hela. Point of contention is that Strange literally says in the same scan, "Galaxies will be upheavaled" and the shadowy figures state "The universe will be destroyed IF Odin were to lose". We are given three different scales of the event. There would be no galaxy to upheaval if the universe is destroyed, so either the statement is BS or somehow galaxies >>> Multiverse Tears.
- Do you know that 1/10^1000000000 is a fraction of 10^10^90? We don't know what fraction we're talking about, and just assuming it's 2-A is your own headcanon. This is the same argument LordWhis used for Tier 0 Thor, and a user used for 1-A Hulk.
- What-Ifs by definition are made to deviate from standard Marvel concepts and scalings. Using them to scale is technically a thing, but it ***** with the concept of authorial intent, where the writer of these stories were clearly having fun with various ideas without caring for definite scale chaining. As such, we will definitely not consider any feats from them as it is clearly against any authorial intent, even by Marvel standards.
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- Appeal to Hela? He literally got overpowered, why would he ruin his own power and pride just to lie about that statement? The multiverse's fabric being torn at =/= it being destroyed, levels of destruction are different than what's be affected, comics don't go by dimensional tiering or anything, and the whole universe thing doesn't really matter considering that shit like that happens in nearly every single feat in comics.
- Yeah, cus the hand of Infinity is 1/10^1000000000 of true infinity clearly.
- No, they are just seperate from 616 due to the events in them being alien to the ones in the main marvel continuity, if a writer wants to test an idea, but they want to make it outside the continuity due to issues, they can simply write a what if.
Also, you do realize that authorial intent appealing is inherently fallacious, right? It's one of the reasons Death of the Author exists, it of course doesn't apply in EVERY Case, but it specially doesn't apply here, just because it has events irregular to main marvel continuity doesn't discredit it at ALL.
- Yeah, cus the hand of Infinity is 1/10^1000000000 of true infinity clearly.
- No, they are just seperate from 616 due to the events in them being alien to the ones in the main marvel continuity, if a writer wants to test an idea, but they want to make it outside the continuity due to issues, they can simply write a what if.
Also, you do realize that authorial intent appealing is inherently fallacious, right? It's one of the reasons Death of the Author exists, it of course doesn't apply in EVERY Case, but it specially doesn't apply here, just because it has events irregular to main marvel continuity doesn't discredit it at ALL.
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- I'm not talking about the Odin comparison, I'm talking about the 'superior to Ragnarok' feat. I buy that Odin is comparable to Mephisto.
- What else does a tiny fraction mean, then? "The Hand of Infinity" might as well be flowery language
- So you yourself are admitting that the writers write What-Ifs so they can test ideas that aren't affecting the mainline Marvel continuity in any way?
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- Okay that's fine.
- It was literally her hand lol, that's what we see in the comic. It would still be a tiny fraction of the real Infinity in The DoM
- Yes but why does that matter if a being exists across all these realities in the same time? I am not scaling to 616 Odin at all, that's my premise, I already explained why in the OP, just because they test new ideas doesn't discredit the feat at all since they are multiversal constants.
No it doesn't matter because we are't arguing over wether or not What Ifs are canon, they don't apply to every character, but that's why I literally addressed it in the OP, like we literally even use a what if statement for the Phoenix now, and shit like The Mad Celestials since they were stated to be equal to the 616 counterparts, and that same logic would apply to Odin due to his nature, but even if we deny that I would rather we just go into Yggdrasil
- It was literally her hand lol, that's what we see in the comic. It would still be a tiny fraction of the real Infinity in The DoM
- Yes but why does that matter if a being exists across all these realities in the same time? I am not scaling to 616 Odin at all, that's my premise, I already explained why in the OP, just because they test new ideas doesn't discredit the feat at all since they are multiversal constants.
No it doesn't matter because we are't arguing over wether or not What Ifs are canon, they don't apply to every character, but that's why I literally addressed it in the OP, like we literally even use a what if statement for the Phoenix now, and shit like The Mad Celestials since they were stated to be equal to the 616 counterparts, and that same logic would apply to Odin due to his nature, but even if we deny that I would rather we just go into Yggdrasil
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So a tiny fraction is an entire goddamn arm now? It can be that the fraction took the shape of her arm, nonetheless it is nonsensical scaling to me, based on alotta headcanon.
It does discredit it, in fact, since you straight up agreed to my point that What-Ifs aren't written keeping in mind 616 scaling, and the writers just write whatever they wanna write. As such, they aren't written to be usable feats for main continuity characters for whatever reason.
Well then using those what if statements for the Phoenix and Mad Celestial is wrong. Do you know the level of scan research that goes on for accepting these scans? Literally none. The scan was probably accepted because no one bothered to check the source for it and blindly said yes. It is us ******* up, not us accepting the What-If continuity.
Yggdrasil feats are far more reliable, yes.
It does discredit it, in fact, since you straight up agreed to my point that What-Ifs aren't written keeping in mind 616 scaling, and the writers just write whatever they wanna write. As such, they aren't written to be usable feats for main continuity characters for whatever reason.
Well then using those what if statements for the Phoenix and Mad Celestial is wrong. Do you know the level of scan research that goes on for accepting these scans? Literally none. The scan was probably accepted because no one bothered to check the source for it and blindly said yes. It is us ******* up, not us accepting the What-If continuity.
Yggdrasil feats are far more reliable, yes.
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Ya what a tiny fraction is - is very subjective, specially relative to abstract beings.
Dude, there is a difference between not interfering with continuity and ignoring continuity, I do think that's what you aren't getting
No, we have direct WoG Those Celestials were equal and the Nexus literally connects to 616 anyway, and it's a damn multiversal abstract which exists across every single what if universe, so it's pretty irrelevant.
Okay, let's focus on that instead
Dude, there is a difference between not interfering with continuity and ignoring continuity, I do think that's what you aren't getting
No, we have direct WoG Those Celestials were equal and the Nexus literally connects to 616 anyway, and it's a damn multiversal abstract which exists across every single what if universe, so it's pretty irrelevant.
Okay, let's focus on that instead
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