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Odin possible upgrade

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LordNephalem

LordNephalem

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In Last Days of The Justice Society, it's said that "Spectre's vast mystic energy, unchecked, reached out in all directions, spatial and temporal", still it did not affect Asgard, that was even called "a place in which time itself dares no tread". But this Asgard that exists outside all spatial and temporal directions was just a small world created by the true Odin: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QewMZ_UsgPQ/Vpy9rfoRTrI/AAAAAAAAOM4/GhCiy-M6vIo/s1600-Ic42/RCO015.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fSn7N7Kh2_k/Vpy9rcsObjI/AAAAAAAAONA/P57J8e0K6rQ/s1600-Ic42/RCO016.jpg

If Fate was referring to all dimensions of time and space... 1-A Odin? But if he was referring to all directions of a 4-dimensional reality, existing outside that would be High 2-A, I think, so in anyway this would be an upgrade to Odi, Azazel and depowered Lucifer.
 
I agree, but even if we consider that DC multiverse wasn't portrayed as infinite dimensional at that time, existing outside of all time and space would still be 1-A, I think.
 
The Endless are embodiments of the multiverse, and as such creatures of time and space. With the possible exception of Destiny, they cannot transcend High 1-B per definition.

All that was shown in these scans is that the Spectre's power reached across time to interact with the spear of destiny in 1945, and that this version of Asgard was located outside of conventional universal time. The Justice Society were able to contend with and defeat Surtur within their prison, which would not remotely have been possible if Asgard had been a 1-A construct.

The Sandman scans later retconned this into a false simulation of Asgard, but it was a small world with weak versions of the gods that could be defeated by regular mortal superheroes.

We are definitely not going to state that virtually all DC deities and demons transcend all degrees and concepts of dimensions of time and space based on something as flimsy as this.
 
Also, as you mentioned, the DC multiverse had not yet been established as infinite-dimensional in 1985, as far as I am aware. During the connected Crisis event, it was strictly treated as a 5-D collection of universes.
 
IIRC the Justice Society didn't beat any god on their own, they transferred their minds to other gods bodies so they could fight. In anyway, if it's not 1-A for the reasons you mentioned, wouldn't it be High 2-A?
 
I do not think so. Creating a universe with its own space-time can only be considered as Low 2-C without further clarifications. It is very possible that Odin rates higher than this, but we have no proof yet.
 
I don't think Odin created a realm outside the space-time of a single universe, but rather a place outside all 4-dimensional space (since Spectre's energy reached out in all directions of time and space, but didn't reach Asgard). And even if none of this is accepted, wouldn't Odin be at least 2-C due to having a similar nature of that of the new gods, greek gods and etc, who are all bigger than all the universes in their original bodies?
 
I do not think that a realm separate from the multiverse can automatically be counted as higher-dimensional.

Scaling Odin from Darkseid's true form seems reasonable though.
 
DeMatteis has a tendency to use a far greater cosmology than all other Marvel and DC writers though, so it is a question of if this would fit with the general portrayal.
 
True. In his own vertigo dc run he credited the god dreaming the void as well. He doesn't follow about other writers ideas
 
I got something.

Jörmungandr can actually hurt Yz, who is a 5-dimensional imp, in the same comic Jörmungandr is defeated by Thor (even though Thor dies by Jörmungandr's poison). And that still happened in the small reality created by the true Odin.

I don't think it's an outlier, new gods have several quotes about existing outside space-time and Odin and other norse gods should scale from them, Thor even fought Big Barda in Kirby's Fourth World, Darkseid was a bit afraid of how powerful Odin could be, etc.
 
Yz was established as 5-dimensional first in Grant Morrison's "Crisis Times Five" around 13 years later.
 
Oh, ok, that's reasonable.

You can close this if you want to, though I still believe that the norse gods should scale from the new gods and greek gods. I mean, aren't Orion and Ares rated as "At least 2-C" due to being bigger than all mortal universes and "likely 2-A" by powerscalling? Odin, Thor and other gods are also bigger than all mortal universes in their true bodies.
 
I do not know. Vertigo flows in and out of regular DC continuity.
 
But both Thor and Odin appear in Kirby's Fourth World, their origin is even the same as all the other pantheon (including the greek one). And even Odin's current rating comes from a feat that involves a DC comic (The Last Days of JSA) and a Vertigo one (Sandman).
 
Not really, new gods have always been portrayed as higher dimensional beings as far as I'm aware: Apokolips being referred as a extra-dimensional planet in COIE, Metron reaching a 6-dimensional space with the Mobius chair, Darkseid creating an avatar in the same 6D space, Metron saying that the new gods are incomprehensible to human mind or something like that, etc. And there's also this: greek gods couldn't interact with Diana in their true bodies and had to do so in smaller manifestation bodies, the JSA couldn't interact with basically anything in the fake Asgard and had to use the gods bodies to do so.

I'm not saying that new gods are 6-dimensional (they may reach this level with boom tubes if I'm not wrong), but higher dimensions are a thing in DC's new/greek/norse gods mythology, they being bigger than all universes is kind of an important part of their stories.
 
Well, Matthew is correct about that we probably shouldn't intertwine stories that are separated by both decades of time and different publishing imprints.

However, I think that Grant Morrison's Multiversity map established that the Earthly gods exist on a similar level to the New Gods, so I am not entirely certain.
 
That said, Grant Morrison's New Gods were clearly established as spatially 4-dimensional, and as such present across all the 52 universes.
 
Also, in DC's case we count 5-dimensional as encompassing time and hypertime (all parallel universes) simultaneously, as established in "Crisis Times Five".
 
Multiversity explictly refers to Bleedspace as 5th Dimensional, which makes sense if following Brane-Theory... And the Godsphere is above Bleedspace.
 
Hmm. Is the godsphere placed above the 5th dimension of Mxyzptlk in the Multiversity map?
 
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