Nothing, Nowhere, Not At All - Metal Overlord Generations

[Omegabronic]

The notion of “Shadow didn’t use his Doom Powers to hurt Metal” isn’t true, but I do remember saying something sorta like this in the General thread some time ago. Nothing in the game states that Shadow consciously activates his Doom Power amps or anything, just the abilities they grant him. In fact it’s more likely he doesn’t, as the black aura that appears when he uses them doesn’t show up most of the time he fights and is obviously using those amps.

It is a bit tricky when it comes to Sonic as it means we’re basically saying Sonic is equal to post-Doom Morph Shadow and stronger than base Shadow which is silly, however it technically does make sense. Remember original Gens is from the era where Sonic was considered the only guy that could do anything useful, so Shadow being normally weaker fits in line with that portrayal even if it’s dumb. E-123 Omega’s statement about them being equal also comes immediately after that fight so it could technically refer to 4DP Shadow.

Again I think it’s very silly meta-wise for base Shadow to ever not be relative to Sonic, but it’s not contradictory and fits with 2010 Sega’s anti-friends agenda.

They are stated to be relative in Gens still, so no, Sonic is not far superior to Shadow here

Also... why are we ignoring how he verbatim said he trew the fight and lost on purpose? Why are we treating as if he genuially lost?

 

[Chariot190]

Well genuinely speaking this is just a bad argument. It's so self-evident what's meant by this and I really have to question why we're trying to take it as anything else. Metal Overlord is simply not on Gens Base Sonic's level. Full stop.

Then ig base Sonic is low 1-C? Why exactly can't Sonic as of Generations be that strong might I ask?

@LordGriffin1000 Metal Overlord scaling to Low 1-C causes multiple problems:

• Shadow after this fight goes on to fight Sonic. Keeping in mind that against Metal Overlord, he doesn't use any of his Doom Powers to directly harm Metal Overlord (only Doom Surf for traversal and Doom Spear to stop one attack) and he also uses no Doom Powers against Sonic, the scenarios are equivalent. If the argument against this is that merely having the Doom Powers amps Shadow, then that's also a problem because that results in Low 1-C Base Sonic, which is just wrong.

Why is it wrong, this seems to be like the 4th thing that would lead to modern low 1-C Sonic?
If that's what the scaling leads to, then ig that's what it is?

That or it's an outlier for Sonic, but it being an outlier for Sonic doesn't change MO's own scaling.
Unless the advanced slop gets tossed out completely, but I don't see why we would.

Also Shadow actively let himself lose to Sonic. He wasn't even really hurt, let Sonic think he won so he could do what he needed to do without him being a nuisance, didn't want to use his newfound stuff at all because he thought it wasn't fair and held back to be "on his level", and even then Sonic only got him via sneak attack which didn't really do much.

• Keeping in line with this, Shadow even says to Metal Overlord that if this is all he can do, he'll never reach Sonic's level. There's no reason to assume this is referring to Super Sonic or anything like that, because this is about Metal Sonic trying to be "the true Sonic," not the true Super Sonic or whatever.

They're one and the same. Sonic is Super Sonic. Shadow could easily be talking in general, probably is.

Also if the argument is "the true sonic", that comes off as more existential backhanded comments from Shadow being an asshole over any meaningful powerscaling comment.

• And as I just mentioned to Omega, the fact that Sonic has been surpassed by Metal Sonic prior to this does not mean anything, because Shadow is referring to here and now to the Metal Overlord he currently sees.

Actually, that doesn't make sense?

If we're talking about the MO in that moment, saying "you will never reach sonic's level", it'd be linguistically wrong if it's talking about Sonic's base, no?
"will never" accounts for future-tense, things that haven't happened but will.

If, the argument is being framed as MO at that time would never reach Sonic's level, but we know for a fact eventually that MO does reach Sonic's level (in being base strength) of that time, and Shadow is aware of that, the statement doesn't make sense.

For the statement to adhere to what you're saying, Shadow would have needed to say "If that's the best you can do, you aren't at his level" or some other present-tense wording.

• snip

I don't get this, you just gave evidence for why Mephiles is different than he was in 06? If he's different now, as contrived as that might be, he's different so shrug.

I think this is problematic enough to axe the Low 1-C proposal, and Metal Overlord should be downgraded to 2-C. I really hope you reconsider your stance.

I don't like these arguments tbh, no offense or aything but eh.....

They're mostly just saying Sonic would scale so it's bad, but whether Sonic scales or not doesn't effect the actual reason for why MO would be Low 1-C. The only way for MO to not be Low 1-C, is if the Advanced stuff got axed instead.

 

[Theuser789]

Unless the advanced slop gets tossed out completely, but I don't see why we would.

This is where I stand. The Advance stuff should be discarded. Too vague of an upscale. We already discard Infinite's statement that puts him above Void, Egg Dragoon's statement that puts it above Egg Wizard, etc. In the end of the day feats>statements and conjecture. Even if we take the Advance statements seriously doesn't mean Sonic was using that amount of power against Overlord in his super form due to variable tier.

I firmly stand against low 1-C or above Overlord, and I believe the downgrade is far better for the integrity of the pages.

 

[Chariot190]

This is where I stand. The Advance stuff should be discarded. Too vague of an upscale. We already discard Infinite's statement that puts him above Void, Egg Dragoon's statement that puts it above Egg Wizard, etc.

No I mean, axed, as in, get rid of the feat entirely.
As long as that feat exists, MO pretty evidently upscales, the yap in Heroes ain't exactly vague. It's standard omg so based hype.

In the end of the day feats>statements and conjecture. Even if we take the Advance statements seriously doesn't mean Sonic was using that amount of power against Overlord in his super form due to variable tier.

Isn't one of the MAIN arguments against MO being that high.... Due to a statement about not being on Sonic's level at that time?

That's double standards.

I firmly stand against low 1-C or above Overlord, and I believe the downgrade is far better for the integrity of the pages.

Integrity, and being what's actually the case isn't mutual. Something can be the case and be dumb as shit. Bad writing or inconsistent scaling is just that.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Even if we take the Advance statements seriously doesn't mean Sonic was using that amount of power against Overlord in his super form due to variable tier.

The Advance slop applies to MO cause Eggman (Who knows Chaos Emeralds > Preciostone) still thought that they'd need a miracle to beat MO with said Chaos Emeralds?
How strong the Super Sonic that went up against MO actually was doesn't really have much to do with it.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Tbh Shadow having to dodge out of the way of the sword at the start is pretty telling that it was threatening enough to him

“High 3-A, Low 1-C with energy sword”

In all seriousness a similar thing happens with Classic Metal’s intro, so when I said “not counting gameplay” I was counting the pre- and post-battle cutscenes. In Mephiles’ case he gets completely rocked in those outside of Shadow deciding to dodge the sword so yeah.

Honestly talking about Mephiles right now is kinda pointless, cause on the off chance Metal keeps 1-C then Mephiles automatically doesn’t scale as Shadow would be at least as strong as Solaris tier characters.

This isn’t true. Gens Classic isn’t 2-C.

Oh, he isn’t? My bad if true, but that makes his profile very misleading then as his key is called “Modern Era Appearances”.

They are stated to be relative in Gens still, so no, Sonic is not far superior to Shadow here

Are they stated to be relative outside of Omega’s statement? If so then fair enough and that complicates things.

Also... why are we ignoring how he verbatim said he trew the fight and lost on purpose? Why are we treating as if he genuially lost?

He explicitly didn’t “lose on purpose”, he just wasn’t ready for Sonic’s attack because he was stopping himself from using his Doom Powers.

Also, Shadow still had both the aura and glowing eyes when he got hit, which means that if you don’t take the “he got cheap-shotted” argument then it feels even weirder for Sonic not to scale to post-Morph Shadow.

 

[CloverDragon03]

He uses Doom Surf to harm Metal Overlord by reflecting the attacks, also they make him more powerful IN GENERAL and he litetally said he let himself lose to Sonic, he trew on purpose, as me and Chariot have been saying, the Sonic fight is a non-factor, as Shadow let himself lose on purpose

What? That's Metal Overlord's AP hurting him, not Doom Surf, because it's Metal Overlord's attacks going back at him. And as for the debris, Shadow can hurt him with it with or without Doom Surf, as he sends debris at him without Doom Surf in the second phase and it hurts him.

Also, it's not like Shadow was throwing throughout the entire fight. It was only toward the end that he threw the fight. So, if you acknowledge that merely having Doom Powers makes Shadow stronger, you still end up saying that Sonic scales to Shadow with 3 Doom Powers, regardless of that being your intention or not. The two fight on par with each other before Shadow decides to throw the fight.

No, Shadow says "you will never" reach his "level", which is not only vague to say it means power, but also he talks using a term that is INTRISINC in talking about Metal in the future too, "never" includes the future, explicitly so

Also this creates a great circular scalling as i detailed above, so it would be discarded by principle

Again, Shadow can't see the future, so this is a completely moot point. He is judging this by Metal Overlord's power and the current power of Sonic. Prove to me that Shadow can magically judge people's future power levels

Also, there's no circular scaling. It's as simple as:

3 Doom Power Shadow ~ Base Sonic > Base Shadow, with Metal Overlord falling somewhere below Base Sonic

You assume that Sonic and Shadow ALWAYS have to be equal base to base in every game, even when Gens explicitly has things showing otherwise

Contrary to him being 2-C without proper evidence as well? Again, Mephiles creates problems even if we keep 2-C, he should be its own thread to solve


Which is a problem regardless as i said, since he was High 3-A in 06, unless you alsp wants to downgrade the Base cast to bellow tier 2

Also it isn't demonstrably false as nothing says he didn't, and i have evidence he did, but again, should be its own thread


Which again, is a problem regardless of tier 1 or not

It is very desingenuous to frame it as a problem only for tier 1 scalling

I literally mentioned something in there saying that if you wanna discard this point, you can. I'm curious about your evidence, but that's for another time

And i really hope he doesn't since these are not good counters, and have been addressed before

Do you think these retorts help at all? This "I could say the same to you" and "I hope he doesn't" stuff doesn't accomplish anything. I'm just giving my rebuttals

I'm not gonna debate this further. Do what you will

 

[Chariot190]

He explicitly didn’t “lose on purpose”, he just wasn’t ready for Sonic’s attack because he was stopping himself from using his Doom Powers.

But like, he did. He opted not to use his newfound powers, didn't do anything he believed would put him past Sonic's level, and even did a cool switcheroo with the fake emerald to get Sonic to **** off and picked himself up like nothing happened.

"lose on purpose" might not be the best descriptor, more like "purposely sandbagged".

 

[CloverDragon03]

The Advance slop applies to MO cause Eggman (Who knows Chaos Emeralds > Preciostone) still thought that they'd need a miracle to beat MO with said Chaos Emeralds?
How strong the Super Sonic that went up against MO actually was doesn't really have much to do with it.

Chaos Emeralds aren't always > Precioustone, otherwise we'd have baseline Super Forms at Low 1-C

 

[CloverDragon03]

They're mostly just saying Sonic would scale so it's bad, but whether Sonic scales or not doesn't effect the actual reason for why MO would be Low 1-C. The only way for MO to not be Low 1-C, is if the Advanced stuff got axed instead.

Well it's not like Eggman's in a position to get his ass to where the Precioustone is when the hulking monstrosity is staring them down. And the Chaos Emeralds aren't always above the Precioustone, otherwise Super Forms would always be Low 1-C at minimum

 

[Ghengiroo115]

But like, he did. He opted not to use his newfound powers, didn't do anything he believed would put him past Sonic's level, and even did a cool switcheroo with the fake emerald to get Sonic to **** off and picked himself up like nothing happened.

"lose on purpose" might not be the best descriptor, more like "purposely sandbagged".

Yeah that’s kinda what I meant. He obviously holds back at the very least his new abilities.

However he only loses the fight at that moment because he got cheap-shotted. If he never bothered to try using his Doom Powers and kept his focus then the fight would’ve continued longer. Nothing says he’s holding back power is my point.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Chaos Emeralds aren't always > Precioustone, otherwise we'd have baseline Super Forms at Low 1-C

You misunderstood. Eggman thinks that the Chaos Emeralds are >Precioustone, yet still doesn't think MO can be stopped with the Chaos Emeralds.
So MO would upscale over Eggman's idea (At that time) of the Emeralds' full power.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm really starting to think that most stuff in modern is just Low 1-C, 1-C peak. This gotta be like the 4th CRT you goons made where that's been brought up as a counterpoint.

Well it's not like Eggman's in a position to get his ass to where the Precioustone is when the hulking monstrosity is staring them down.

But he knows about them right? He knows the Emeralds can in fact scale above them right? He doesn't inherently need direct access to it at that moment if the CE can reach those levels by themselves in theory and he thinks the likelyhood of there even being a chance is essentially miniscule even with that knowledge.

And the Chaos Emeralds aren't always above the Precioustone, otherwise Super Forms would always be Low 1-C at minimum

That's cool, but they would be in that instance because Eggman lays on the glaze kinda thick.
Ig I could check the raws to see if he's more vague about it? But based on the evidence presented, I'm more leaning to MO just scaling. Whether or not that complicates other stuff, ain't really his or Advance's fault. That scaling would need to be discussed seperately.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

I’m still contemplating the idea that we just give all the 12 Uni characters possibly/likely Low 1-C, maybe even a solid rating but preferably not. I don’t really like Tier 1 base Sonic, but I’m still of the mind that Sonic scales to Metal Overlord and I feel there’s a good enough amount of arguments for at least a possibly Low 1-C rating (I brought up a couple earlier in the thread).

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Ngl that's just being cheap for the sake of it

If he should scale it would really only make sense to be a solid rating

 

[Omegabronic]

This is where I stand. The Advance stuff should be discarded. Too vague of an upscale. We already discard Infinite's statement that puts him above Void, Egg Dragoon's statement that puts it above Egg Wizard, etc. In the end of the day feats>statements and conjecture. Even if we take the Advance statements seriously doesn't mean Sonic was using that amount of power against Overlord in his super form due to variable tier.

I firmly stand against low 1-C or above Overlord, and I believe the downgrade is far better for the integrity of the pages.

Infinite's statement are not as consistent as the Chaos Emerald's ones, which we know can reach tier 1, the statements are anything but vague, it straight up "the strongest things i know" when Eggman of the Precioustone and Void's power

Call it what you want, but it isn't vague not even close

As Chariot said, Sonic's stuff do not affect what makes MO tier 1, it is an outlier for Sonic not Overlord, as these are the only statements he has

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Ngl that's just being cheap for the sake of it

If he should scale it would really only make sense to be a solid rating

Maybe, it might just be my irrational bias against Tier 1 base cast showing. IMO the “Infinite > Void” argument and the argument for baseline Super forms to scale to Maginaryworld stuff based on the context for the relevant statements are both not flawless, but the “Metal Overlord > Maginaryworld stuff” argument is almost airtight to me.

 

[Theuser789]

Isn't one of the MAIN arguments against MO being that high.... Due to a statement about not being on Sonic's level at that time?

No. The main reason is that Metal Overlord loses to a Shadow that loses to Sonic, and this idea Doom Powers amp can be turned on and off is headcanon to keep the robot at tier 1.

The Advance statements ARE vague and chainscaling as well, btw. It's based on a game manual calling it "unimaginable power" after Shuffle and an Eggman statement thinking it would take a miracle... the very thing that already happens when the seven emeralds are gathered.

The fact everyone except Omega also wants tier 1 base is also enough for me to be against his upgrade.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Just FYI, Eggman states that even with the Chaos Emeralds (after being shown them), the chances of beating Metal Overlord are slim, and that it would take a miracle, so there's a sentiment of "more power than already shown"

 

[Starsprite53]

Why would Shadow talk about Sonic from the future to someone from the past????
It doesn't help that he could also talk about Super Sonic or the other meaning of the dialogue (Which Me, Omega and Chariot elaborated before)I don't care about tier stuff here, I care more about the logic.

 

[Starsprite53]

Did we forget that Shadow with doom powers was shown to do effort to beat Metal Overlord and attacked him with multple doom attacks, while a single Doom Spear was implied to beat Sonic?

 

[Ghengiroo115]

The fact everyone except Omega also wants tier 1 base is also enough for me to be against his upgrade.

Tbf nobody “wants” Tier 1 base, in fact most people are fully against it. I’m pretty sure Chariot and I are the only ones who’ve even suggested Tier 1 base, and from what I understood from his comments he’s in a similar boat to me where it’s more of an “if we have to” thing. Personally I don’t want Tier 1 base.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Did we forget that Shadow with doom powers was shown to do effort to beat Metal Overlord and attacked him with multple doom attacks

Same thing applies to Mephiles, as well as the Classic Sonic bosses who even if not against a 2-C Classic Sonic are still fighting against a stronger and more experienced Sonic to before.

while a single Doom Spear was implied to beat Sonic?

This wasn’t implied. We don’t know what would’ve happened if Shadow had used it.

 

[Chariot190]

No. The main reason is that Metal Overlord loses to a Shadow that loses to Sonic, and this idea Doom Powers amp can be turned on and off is headcanon to keep the robot at tier 1.

We know Shadow got stronger. This isn't up for debate. Hard fact.
We know he sandbags, this isn't up for debate, hard fact.
We know that the Shadow that fought MO is stronger than his base by an unknown variable.
We know that Shadow's base and Sonic's base, for the most part, are in fact comparable, despite Shadow himself having gotten stronger.

We know he actively shuts it off, and hell, it isn't like Shadow stays 1-C afterward, he seemingly loses his stuff so it isn't like it's a permanent non-fluctuating increase.

And in the end, literally none of this affects if MO scales to Low 1-C. Bad writing or inconsistencies doesn't change he's scaling off Advanced.

The Advance statements ARE vague and chainscaling as well, btw.

Not from what I see, the statements are obligatory upscaling off all preceeding stuff based on that cahracter's knowledge-type stuff. Unless Eggman just forgot, it isn't an argument.

It's based on a game manual calling it "unimaginable power" after Shuffle and an Eggman statement thinking it would take a miracle... the very thing that already happens when the seven emeralds are gathered.

And do you people not use manuals and in game yap to scale stuff? I'm almost certain quite a bit of the verse is built upon similar stuff no?

And no, he's saying even with them, it would require a miracle, not that having them would be a miracle.
Except actually "Even with the Emeralds' power [-] it would take a miracle...!"

The fact everyone except Omega also wants tier 1 base is also enough for me to be against his upgrade.

I don't particularly care. If that's what evidence points to, it is what it is, I don't make the feats or the games, I'm just arguing based on the evidence presented without discrediting it due it being "annoying". Deal with that in a different thread.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Yes, a lot of Sonic verse indexing is built on similar principles. So as long as Eggman actually knows about the Precioustone, I don't see why it wouldn't apply to his statement

 

[Starsprite53]

For Mephiles: It can either be PIS or an outlier, this is just another (and common) case of devs not giving a damn about powerscaling
If anything, 6 years later we see Classic Sonic keeping up with Modern Stuff (Accelerated Development my ass, it didn't help him against Time Eater nor the many times where Sonic lost)

 

[Omegabronic]

What? That's Metal Overlord's AP hurting him, not Doom Surf, because it's Metal Overlord's attacks going back at him.

Shadow literally trows random rubble at him to hurt him

also the Doom Powers make him stronger overall, so again, don't see the point

And as for the debris, Shadow can hurt him with it with or without Doom Surf, as he sends debris at him without Doom Surf in the second phase and it hurts him.

and MO can still tank the Doom Surf trowing ones, so the end result is the same, also, weird how he deals the same damage with and withour Doom Surf, almost as if the Doom Powers themselves make him stronger overall... which is as i said

Also, it's not like Shadow was throwing throughout the entire fight. It was only toward the end that he threw the fight.

entire fight? They barely fought, and Sonic did nothing that would make him scale to Shadow, him one shotting him at end was because he didn't want to beat Sonic unfairly, so he just faked a loss and gave him the fake emerald for him to leave him be

So, if you acknowledge that merely having Doom Powers makes Shadow stronger, you still end up saying that Sonic scales to Shadow with 3 Doom Powers, regardless of that being your intention or not.

No? Sonic does nothing to scale to Shadow during that very brief display, at all, the one blow at the end he sandbagged on purpose to give him the fake emerald, so it doesn't count

The two fight on par with each other before Shadow decides to throw the fight.

If you ignore the entire display and Shadow literally saying he is above Sonic's level, sure

Again, Shadow can't see the future, so this is a completely moot point. He is judging this by Metal Overlord's power and the current power of Sonic. Prove to me that Shadow can magically judge people's future power levels

What part of HE LITERALLY SEEING METAL'S FUTURE POWER VIA LIVING AT THE FUTURE TIME PERIOD IT HAPPENS did you not get? Ignoring the basic logic of "Metal was seen fighting on par and above Sonic by Shadow in the past" as he LITERALLY LIVED in earlier games to see, in being desingenuous, holy my man

What part of Shadow being from the future in relation to MO, which is basic logic, is so "hard" for you to understand? He doesn't need to see the future, he IS FROM THE FUTURE, from MO's perspective, Shadow already saw his future self

Also, there's no circular scaling. It's as simple as:

3 Doom Power Shadow ~ Base Sonic > Base Shadow, with Metal Overlord falling somewhere below Base Sonic

no cuz Base Shadow = Base Sonic as said by... oh so many sources

You assume that Sonic and Shadow ALWAYS have to be equal base to base in every game, even when Gens explicitly has things showing otherwise

It is literally stated to be the case in the bios of the game and by Omega himself

Do you think these retorts help at all? This "I could say the same to you" and "I hope he doesn't" stuff doesn't accomplish anything. I'm just giving my rebuttals

i just said what you said, as i have nothing else to say

 

[Omegabronic]

Chaos Emeralds aren't always > Precioustone, otherwise we'd have baseline Super Forms at Low 1-C

But in this case, it is above PS as Eggman couldn't believe even the CE, which he says as >>> to the PS, might not be enough to beat him, character dialogue in the fighr supporting it

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

IIRC, Shadow's character bio in the collection room refers to him in relation to Sonic. There's probably an implication that they're equal there

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Uhhhhhh btw, I just double-checked that vid so I could get the exact wording of the Shadow quote while replying to a comment here, but thanks to Youtube mobile’s “comments with timestamps will appear at the relevant point” feature I noticed a comment saying it’s apparently unused…

Is this true? Cause if so then that’s an embarrassingly long amount of time arguing over something that’s not in the actual game.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Uhhhhhh btw, I just double-checked that vid so I could get the exact wording of the Shadow quote while replying to a comment here, but thanks to Youtube mobile’s “comments with timestamps will appear at the relevant point” feature I noticed a comment saying it’s apparently unused…

Is this true? Cause if so then that’s an embarrassingly long amount of time arguing over something that’s not in the actual game.

Man wtf

In hindsight, that makes sense. I was wondering where that line would have been placed

 

[Chariot190]

Uhhhhhh btw, I just double-checked that vid so I could get the exact wording of the Shadow quote while replying to a comment here, but thanks to Youtube mobile’s “comments with timestamps will appear at the relevant point” feature I noticed a comment saying it’s apparently unused…

Is this true? Cause if so then that’s an embarrassingly long amount of time arguing over something that’s not in the actual game.

Yeah nah see, I checked multiple jpn walkthroughs, even translated each line myself to double check, and I couldn't find it at all. I assumed it was something that only plays if the fight drags on but if it's unused....

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

lmaooooo

We REALLY should've taken more time to consider the avenue of thought "Where tf would that have been said?"

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

IIRC, Shadow's character bio in the collection room refers to him in relation to Sonic. There's probably an implication that they're equal there

I just checked and, unfortunately, Shadow's character bio only mentions Sonic in the sense that Shadow looks like the grim copy of Sonic.

Even so: Sonic Generations' (not Shadow Generations) bio of Shadow says that Shadow shares Sonic's speed and agility, which when paired with Omega's statement of Sonic and Shadow being equals in speed and strength should be taken into consideration in this discussion.

 

[Chariot190]

MO has a Low 1-C scaling line.
Shadow fought Mo while being explicitly stronger to an unknown degree.
Shadow sandbagged against Sonic.

The only fucky is Mephiles, but like, fuckm idk, Clover already pointed out he functions differently in Gen anyway.

lmaooooo

We REALLY should've taken more time to explore the avenue of thought "Where tf would that have been said?"

and I also watched like a dozen japanese walkthroughs, I can't actually find when he says the line, the video linked has lines out of order too so that ain't a good sign.

I did.... But nobody like, followed up on it.

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Yeah nah see, I checked multiple jpn walkthroughs, even translated each line myself to double check, and I couldn't find it at all. I assumed it was something that only plays if the fight drags on but if it's unused....

Bro what the hell is this gif

Yeah if you can’t find it there’s a heavy chance it’s just not in the final game. Does make me wonder if there’s an english version of the line but that’s not relevant here.

 

[Chariot190]

Bro what the hell is this gif

Frug

Yeah if you can’t find it there’s a good chance it’s just not in the final game. Does make me wonder if there’s an english version of the line but that’s not relevant here.

I checked ENG too and he says nothing like that so....

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Given the JP version isn't even used, it's possible there's no English equivalent

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Anyways, can we get more staff input on Low 1-C Metal Overlord? He's the one thing clogging this thread

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Even so: Sonic Generations' (not Shadow Generations) bio of Shadow says that Shadow shares Sonic's speed and agility, which when paired with Omega's statement of Sonic and Shadow being equals in speed and strength should be taken into consideration in this discussion.

Tbf I don’t think there’s evidence that Shadow got faster, only stronger, but idk if I even want to argue for Sonic scaling anymore. I still think Shadow “turning off” a passive and constant power amp makes little sense, but unlike the Metal Overlord statement I fully get the arguments against Sonic scaling here. If the statement really is unused then I think I’m content with Sonic not scaling.

I checked ENG too and he says nothing like that so....

I meant in the files

Frug

I see… (that’s from Doctor Who, right?)