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Nothing, Nowhere, Not At All - Shadow Generations CRT Pt. 2
- Thread starter ShakeResounding
- Start date
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 9,031
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- Thread starter
- #42
Thank you very much, David, keep being a real one in 2025
And now it's HERE, it's FINALLY HERE! Your excitement is contagious!
Awww. Thank you. Your encouragement and anticipation unironically drove me some days!
Ghengiroo115
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It’s in the AP section for Evolved/Doom Shadow.
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Where tho Pre-Heroes? I don't remember if there's any Ultimate Power statements between Shuffle and Heroes.
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......BRUH did you even read my arguments at all? I linked 3
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Btw sleep manipulation for Doom still has no justification.
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Agree. Though the Metal shit is a lil fucky. I think I agree with Omega's take? Or at the very least Eggman's yap would implicate he scales 1-C still even if he doesn't scale to them as they are now.
Shadow can still be stronger than MO while MO is scaling to 1-C no? They've gotten way stronger from what I understand, top and bottom of 1-C is as big a gap as bottom of 10-C to High 3-A, both can stay the same tier while still manhandling him.
I'll stay neutral on MO for now but idk why they can't both be 1-C at peak if MO's timeline placement indicates 1-C scaling.
Shadow can still be stronger than MO while MO is scaling to 1-C no? They've gotten way stronger from what I understand, top and bottom of 1-C is as big a gap as bottom of 10-C to High 3-A, both can stay the same tier while still manhandling him.
I'll stay neutral on MO for now but idk why they can't both be 1-C at peak if MO's timeline placement indicates 1-C scaling.
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specially since the Shadow that fought MO was an amped one, not Base Shadow, no one of the base cast even scales to the Shadow that fought MO even
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Because base Shadow is the one who beat him. Shadow is only 1-C when he's "completed".
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That doesn't particular have to do with the reason presented though.
That either means
1. The advance shit isn't 1-C so MO scaling to it isn't either.
2. Shadow in base is 1-C.
3. Shadow was already getting stronger and was 1-C by that point in the game and just peaked at the end (Which like, tbf, kinda would be weird if if he went from low 2-C, then 1-C instantly off getting the final power, don't they say he's already gotten stronger but he isn't completed yet at multiple points? If he's already that strong by mid-game, it could rectify that issue).
That or funny blue hedgehog man game ain't exactly a paragon of consistency and there's gonna be some fuckys.
As said, I'll wait and see how this plays out, but I don't think it's that simple.
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It's this one. Basedow isn't 1-C and Shadow fights base Sonic even after acquiring Doom Morph. Third isn't the worst but I don't agree with it myself.
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Then you'll probably need to get the Advanced stuff changed first, pretty sure it's listed as 1-C cosmic slop atm.
Though, I don't particularly like the following arguments there. Base not being a certain tier doesn't exactly constitute a rebuttal if the point of contention is him scaling to an allegedly 1-C thing, that's invalidating the feat if true, simply based off a preconceived notion
And the he fought Sonic thing doesn't exactly count for, or against, anything, he deliberately sandbags and doesn't use any of his new power because it wouldn't be fair or someshit. I wouldn't use that as an argument as the game itself acknowledges it and makes it clear he was holding back.
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Says who? like, you are making it sound like the Doom Powers do not increase power at all until the last one......which is false, it is verbatim said that they make him stronger. Heck, the one who fought MO has only like, 2 Doom Powers away from becoming complete, him being low 1-C before that is completely understandable
it isn't base Shadow, Shadow with Doom Powers is stronger than Shadow without them, hence why he didn't use them against Sonic to "face him on equal footing".......and also why he let himself lose, unless you believe Sonic can One shot Shadow for some reason?
heck, you agreed with the thread even, which says that Doom Powers amp Shadow's power
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It isn't. The advance bosses are 2-C.
That's the thing. Overlord being tier 1 is based on pure conjecture, that's all.
Completed Doom Shadow is the one who fights Doom, which has the actual tier 1 feats to back up his rating.
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Pure conjecture? Didn't they need to charge the Emeralds prior to the fight? They never needed to do that before.
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Dude, he was talking about the Statements in Advance, which i showed
Can you like, stop ignoring those? You even said you didn't knew any statements......even when i showed it in the post you supposedly read
No, it is based on the logic the series itself presented, not acknowledging the higher charge time needed to match MO wouldn't be accurate
Also........dude, i showed direct statements that make MO >>>> Illumina/Preciostone/Void(which are Low 1-C)
wdym "conjecture"?
Yeah, he is only on Doom's level when completed.......this means he cannot be any tier above his base when amped by Doom Powers because?
Can you stop citing tiers as if they were things in verse? They don't matter for the argument of "MO losing to an amped Shadow doesn't mean anything for Base Shadow as Doom Powers Shadow is >> Base Shadow"
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No, they did that in Adventure, too, and Perfect Chaos being tier 1 was rejected in a recent thread. "Charging up" or similar doesn't mean Sonic is at his peak in the fight.
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No they didn't? This blatantly untrue
The Perfect Chaos thread is still going dude, just waiting for more input on the ones that commented already. And the argument was statements, the situation is not at all like Metal Overlord......
Why not? It would at least mean he is far superior to the standard power
Also can you stop ignoring the statement i showed? Why are you not talking about them?
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Agree with the OP.
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https//vsbattles.com/threads/nothing-nowhere-not-at-all-shadow-generations-crt-pt-2.175889/post-6926499
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We aren't talking about the bosses, but the sol emeralds are we not?
Not that I see. It seems to be based on Eggman yap, we have no reason to discredit Eggman, he isn't exactly dumb and would know what he's talking about and has firsthand experience. From Eggman's perspective, MO is seemingly above the Advanced slop.
If the Advanced slop is 1-C, MO should be as well.
For this to not work, Advanced would need to be downgraded.
Plus as others mentioned, they had to charge the emeralds for MO in a unique scenario? That implicates a higher degree of power no?
That doesn't matter. If MO is 1-C. And the Shadow that fights him is unquantifiably stronger compared to his base. Shadow defeating MO doesn't act as a anti-feat to MO because the Shadow who fights him can be whatever tier, he isn't capped by anything bar Neo Devil Doom, who is also 1-C in this situation.
Which is to say, Shadow is a non-factor. Nobody scales to him at that point, and he can be however strong.
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Nah, now stop bringing unrelatwd threads into this
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You're talking about the Chaos Emeralds and the "unimagible power" statements? I actually need to check the timeline blog again to see if Advance is after Shuffle or not before adressing this point.
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Sure. Also Eggman yapping about a miracle and other stuff.
The intent seems to be pretty evident, MO was kind of built diff.
Not really my concern, if you treat it as an outlier, it isn't an argument. If you don't treat it as an outlier, well, then he scales I guess? Idk, that doesn't have anything to do with the arguments presented.
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.......USER, I LITERALLY LINKED IN MY POST SHOWING THAT
Seriously, did you even read my points at all?
After he copied Shadow once more, AS I COVERED IN THE POST YOU SAID YOU READ
seriously, wth is going on here?
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Alright. Shuffle is before Advance in the timeline blog. I am more neutral on upscaling him from the PreciousStone. However, if that's done we need to add a variable tier to evolved Shadow instead of the straight 1-C, and explain why Sonic doesn't scale to him.
You're being incredible annoying with your attention begging attitude. Mephiles doesn't copy Shadow again, that doesn't happen, and I never said I read that post. I am replying to other people.
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The Sonic thing is pretty simple, Shadow just sandbags on purpose and says he did.
Idk if we need a variable tier? How are we rating it.
If it's only one key for him at his peak, we don't need to list how strong he is halfway into the game, or 1/3rd, or 2/3rds, we just rating him at his peak. We generally don't rate "holding back" either. We'd just key him at his best.
A note to explain the scaling would be beneficial tho.
Tbf, my arguments were moreso based on what was linked there given that was the evidence presented.
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Optional Equipment seems incomplete. Is it going to possibly get completed after the profile update if anyone chooses to do so?
Ghengiroo115
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Just a quick question, is there any real issue with Gens Mephiles being 1-C? I have no opinion on the whole “Mephiles copies Shadow again” thing, but if we went that route I want to make sure there’s no problems with 1-C Mephiles outside of it feeling strange (I’m also like 50% sure that the scaling chain would have Gens Mephiles above Solaris in case that’s important).
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i just don't like being ignored, specially by someone who was arguing with me over these arguments in the first place
Will leave this for the other thread then
outlier for this one like Chariot says
.....ok, but you replied to me over these arguments
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This needs to be explained in the page otherwise people will make threads asking why Basenic doesn't scale to Doom Shadow despite beating him.
We need to rate him because people are going to see Metal Overlord fighting Shadow and ask why he's 5D while Shadow is 6-D. Furthermore Shadow grows in strength, so his power is varying until the peak.
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If we don't assume he arbitrarily got stronger, then that would make 06 Shadow 1-C for having scaling with Mephiles, if he were hypothetically 1-C. Seems very circular
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Thats not how it would work. Mephiles copies Doom Powers Shadow in Gens, but even then that would be an outlier for Mephiles. Mephiles became High 3-A by copying Shadow in 06.
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I don't recall Mephiles copying Shadow's powers in Gens. Please enlighten me
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Well yeah, note it. I would say a scaling blog but that's probably effort, so just write a note. In fact, they should have notes anyway explaining the scaling and AP's exact values anyhow, at least that's what I do.
By that logic Sonic should have a variable tier too, and so should Saitama, Goku, Jotaro, literally half the Sonic cast, literally any character that gets stronger overtime. We don't do that, we just key them at a certain point.
Like, we don't rate Sonic at every different point in Frontiers do we? Same thing. (If they Aceldev or RPL we list that instead). Or for a non-Sonic example, we don't rate Goku at every point in the Freeza Saga even though his power changed like ten times, we just do the end of it. That's just how we do things on wiki.
Of course explaining why and where they scale is different, but that's more suited for a note. Just add a note to MO's page explaining why he doesn't scale to 6D Shadow, that being the Shadow he fought simply wasn't that strong yet. That's what notes are for.
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Case in point to what I said. We would also need to specify Mephiles fighting Shadow is an outlier. For me it's too much work with too little evidence for low 1-C Overlord.
Eden_Warlock99
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It's already an outlier? Mephiles is High 3-A.
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We already have a scaling blog and notes.
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Then what's the problem? Just explain it there.
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