Non-Physical Interaction in Bleach and Intangibilities for Souls

[HST_Master]

That's not how Fullbringers work

Fullbringers are naturally born with their powers. It's a matter of actually realizing their specific abilities. Chad makes note that he's aware that something is there. It's the same with Orihime being somewhat aware of Sora's presence.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

The point was that they're born with much higher Reiryoku.


I'm sorry but this seems like an excuse to attempt to downplay.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That's not how Fullbringers work
Fullbringers are naturally born with their powers. It's a matter of actually realizing their specific abilities. Chad makes note that he's aware that something is there. It's the same with Orihime being somewhat aware of Sora's presence.

And again, I don't doubt that but being naturally born with their powers and being able to ultiize them at will are 2 very different things. Unless Fullbringers passively make contact with spirits all of a sudden, they clearly need to actively use their abilities.

Otherwise why would Chad and Orihime need to train in order to use their powers?

 

[KuuIchigo]

Better stick to pokemon. Bleach isn't working.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Better stick to pokemon. Bleach isn't working.

Ad Homineming me won't work.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Apparently scans don't work either.

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

Apparently scans don't work either.

But downplay and head Canon does.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Apparently scans don't work either.

So you admit, you're purposely throwing insults at this point over a discussion?

 

[Rin_The_Dragon_Empress]

I don't see how he's admitting to anything like that. I think you're just the one ignoring scans and how the verse works.

 

[HST_Master]

@ProfessorKukui

They need to train in order to use their specific abilites: Chad's Right Arm of the Giant and Left arm of the Giant and Orihime's Shun Shun Rikka. Their lesser more general abilities started to awaken on their own due to being around Ichigo. No one's saying he's busting out his personal Fullbring but that his lesser shared abilities are awakening.

 

[HST_Master]

And can we all calm down?

 

[KuuIchigo]

Apparently scans don't work either.

So you admit, you're purposely throwing insults at this point over a discussion?

Never said that.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I don't see how he's admitting to anything like that. I think you're just the one ignoring scans and how the verse works.

"apparently scans don't work either".

>don't work either

Thats kinda admitting he's insulting me because of the other not working. But whatever. Anyway, im not ignoring scans nor how the verse works. Unless someone gives me a very good explanation, im honestly seeing wank.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Rin

I'm going to need you to bring it down a notch. You can argue against someone without being condescending. You don't need to include things like "do you want a trophy" even if you want to have an argument with bite to it.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I don't think the status of new or experienced fullbringer has much to do with Chad case at all,it's something they're born with it,this even goes further in depth in the recent novel chapter.

I've already agreed with this on the Q/A thread so I'll agree with it here as well.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@ProfessorKukui
They need to train in order to use their specific abilites: Chad's Right Arm of the Giant and Left arm of the Giant and Orihime's Shun Shun Rikka. Their lesser more general abilities started to awaken on their own due to being around Ichigo. No one's saying he's busting out his personal Fullbring but that his lesser shared abilities are awakening.

And thats exactly what im having an issue with.

What exactly is "lesser more general" about making contact with hollows and such? Why is that suddenly an easy thing to do over their other abilities? To me, this seems like cherry picking and abusing stuff in order to counter something that very much looks like an inconsistency.

 

[Dat_Dot]

There also inconsistency if the whole souls in bleach is not always intangible tbh.

For example, how A human sized boy Yuichi can be stuffed into a small bird if they're physical/not intangible of some sort.

How Ichigo can even get back to his human body?

How the normal human not realized there is spiritual beings in their life if they're physicals/not intangible, hollows can hide in garganta yes but normal spirit? Figured they would bump to humans since there are lot of spirits in human world.

And during Don Kanonji chapter a spirit literally chained in front of hospital entrance for a while.. How human not noticed there's something blocking the entrance? Not to mention in early chapter showed us spirits tend to follow humans like that spirits that following Ichigo in chapter one. How come they not noticed that?

But ehh, maybe I overthink suff.

 

[HST_Master]

It's lesser because it's not specific to that character. It's the most basic ability of Fullbringer or spiritually aware human in general. Why would they need to train for that? Their basic powers awakened due to being around Ichigo in general and matured faster when he became a Soul Reaper.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's lesser because it's not specific to that character. It's the most basic ability of Fullbringer or spiritually aware human in general. Why would they need to train for that? Their basic powers awakened due to being around Ichigo in general and matured faster when he became a Soul Reaper.

I don't recall that happening when Ichigo was a human but anywho, thats the problem. It proves that their spiritual contact capabilities weren't made in use from being born. Whether training or being around Ichigo, it still means they had to develop them instead of it already being automatically developed.

And honestly, people needing spiritual awareness and skill to touch spirits is more so starting to sound like the spirits themselves arent really intangible. It's just that they can't come in contact with anything that isn't spiritually developed. That doesn't mean they're intangible to everything else.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Souls in Bleach aren't exactly like the souls in most fictional universes. For one thing, they are composed of molecules and cells, are affected by heat and cold, can age and reproduce, can eat and drink, etc. The afterlife in Bleach works more like a continuation of physical life then something wholly divorced from it.

However they can still be intangible, albeit only in the world of the living. The way it works is that souls are composed of matter, albeit matter which is only naturally tangible on the world of the dead.

There are too many variables at play here and I think trying to give intangibility to all of Bleach is a definite exaggeration. Non-physical interaction is fine though.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Hmm, well now since Matt seems to be fine with it (and I asked him to comment what he thinks about this much earlier), I'll drop my argument.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Bleach Souls are intangible in the world of the living for the same reason Cthulhu is intangible: it's not that they're non-physical, it's that they're composed of matter from another reality.

This is my interpretation, at least. But it is one that reconciles souls being undeniably made of matter, while also displaying intangible characteristics sometimes.

I agree with Dat Dot's statement of it being inconsistent.

 

[Tarkatower]

So basically no intangibility applicability.......

 

[Theglassman12]

Isn't it stated that the souls are made up to an extent of reishi? Considering they do emit some level of it, which would kinda explain why the hollows always target them over normal individuals.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

All Souls are made up completely of Reishi if memory serves me right.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Matthew What of the invisibility? They're invisible to humans lacking extrasensory perception.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Invisibility is a different story, though wouldnt that also just be because humans have crap level spiritual extrasensory? Heck, humans don't even need good extrasensory skills to see spirits in some cases, like say, being in the SS.

Other than Tatsuki and Keigo, Ichigos friends like Miziruto and Chizuru have no spiritual capabilities of all.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Mizuro and Chizuru do have spiritual capabilities. They can sense and see spirits.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

When did that happen? The only time I ever even remember them sensing and seeing spirits was when they encountered Aizen and that was in the SS.

There was another time where Keigo saw a flying hollow in the Arrancar arc but Mizuro didn't notice a single thing.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Like I said, Kukui, the properties of souls in Bleach are highly dependant on whether they are in Soul Society or on Earth. That being said, invisibility is probably legit.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Kukui the end of the arrancar arc, or the fake karakura town arc if you wanna be more specific, proves that it does matter on where they're at if soul reapers can be seen. Normal soul reapers cannot be seen by any normal person, but when Aizen went to Karakura Town in the Soul Society, some random dude who had like no spiritual energy was able to see him. My guess is that the reishi was so high in the area that it allowed invisible things to be seen, though that's just speculation.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Yeah that was my point (and I forgot about the guy Aizen "erased). Chizuro, Mizuro, and that briefcase man had never sensed or seen a spirit before that but when in the SS they saw Aizen clearly just fine. And IIRC, when Aizen unleashed Spiritual pressure, they passed out immediately unlike Tatsuki and Keigo who definitely do have spiritual skills.

But you could be right about the Reishi in the area being high enough so eh.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

They were in Soul Society, Humans can't be in Soul Society unless they go through a Kishi Converter as Urahara described. It basically makes your "Kishi (Matter)" into "Reishi (Spiritual Matter)". It literally turned the people of Karakura Town into spiritual beings.

Scans of it.

 

[HST_Master]

They were able to see em since early arrancar arc.

@ProfessorKukui

Except they didn't develop those abilities through training. They happened naturally and increased after meeting ichigo. They never trained to be able to see spirits. Like at all.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Imade

I already knew that. That was my point for Chizuru and Mizuro. Unlike Tatsuki and Keigo, the only time those 2 have ever seen a spirit was when they were playing a little game of tag with Aizen and that was in the SS where they were converted into Reishi. Before that, they had never once seen a spirit, shinigami, hollow, etc. before. Unless you have scenes to refresh my memory?

@HST master

Re-read/rewatch Chad needing to be guided around in order to see that hollow he was hitting around with a telephone pole and repeat that. Even after that much later on, he needed to be guided around by Karin before awakening his Fullbring.

Or Orihime only being able to see her brother as a hollow when her soul was extracted and tied to her chain of fate.

So no, it wasn't natural. Ichigo did increase them when being around them, but it wasn't a natural given since they could never see spirits right from the very start.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Chizuru only sees spirits in Kubo end of volume sketches. Mizuiro talks to Kyoraku in the Blood War Arc. Even earlier, in the Arrancar Arc Mizuiro, Keigo and Tatsuki see Chad, Ichigo and Uryu head into the Garganta in Urahara's basement.

 

[The_Causality]

Non physical interaction in bleach is pretty obvious tbh

 

[AppleLord]

If I am not mistaken only souls with spiritual energy require to eat, and Hollows only eat other souls.

 

[HST_Master]

@Professor

Chad notices Shriekers presence and actively gets out of the way while in the warehouse. Neither Ichigo in Soul Reaper form or Rukia were there.

And Orihime was hinted at her brothers presence before Ichigo ever showed up.

None of that requires training as if your implying.

 

[Zzsax]

The only reason Chad was able to hit shrieker is because he is a fullbringer,had reiatsu and had slowly begun awakening his powers.

Kishi beings can interact with reishi if they can exert spiritual force(reiatsu)

In the same vein spiritual(reishi) beings can interact with kishi(matter) if they can exert spiritual force(reiatsu)

This would explain why regular ghost are definitely intangible,they don't have enough reiatsu to exert a force on matter(kishi),humans or otherwise.

And this may be my opinion but I think shinigami and hollow,who possess reiatsu(spiritual force),can either choose to exert that force on matter or not.

In chapter 1,there is a scene where shinigami Rukia phases through ichigo's room wall...and Orihime's brother was also phasing around her room.Both are also able to affect kishi(matter) if they exert reiatsu in attack or otherwise.