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Noelle (Genshin) vs Retsu Kaioh
- Thread starter Stillwinston
- Start date
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- #42
It's Baki, Jojo with martial arts lol
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When i mean obliterated i mean arm gone, if he can still punch with that place that tie the arm to the body then i'm impressed cause i see people with ******* arm that went through the grinder and look like a pile of meat with bone all over the "arm" and can still move it, forgot the name but it's a novel.
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i mean he shouldn't be able to blow his damn arm off of hitting a shield really hard, that just seems really stupid imo
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- #46
He still has another arm tho lol
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- #48
Can still do stuff tho, again if he gets a pressure point jab it's gg even if Noelle can bring her shield back up after cause she'll be out mind
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- #51
Yeah but was it not mentioned a small gesture still needs to be done?
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where did the barrier number come from?
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- #56
That seems like enough time to land a pressure point jab tbh, its late at night for me but feels like I can lift and stamp my foot around the same time it takes for me to extend my arm with a fist but that's just me
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Question: Where did the "5x base AP barrier" come from? All we know for sure is that the basic barrier can withstand attacks massively stronger than the character's maximum AP. Even then, the barrier can be worn down, so even if Retsu couldn't break it in one hit, he could just as easily whittle it down with multiple weaker hits.
As for my take on this match:
Lisa is effortlessly outclasses Razor, who tops out at 4+ megatons via multipliers. Diluc's physical AP outclasses Lisa's magical AP, and Jean is physically stronger than Diluc. Noelle's strength shocks the Traveler, who at that point had already fought alongside Jean and should be familiar with her strength, so Noelle's strength is vastly greater than Jean.
Overall, Noelle is physically >>>>>>>>> 4.04 megatons. This, combined with her >1.5x multiplier via C6 and Sweeping Time, she should easily be capable of overpowering defensive Shaori and damaging Retsu. Adding to that, when Retsu manages to break through Breastplate (her shield), her C4 gives her a one-use omnidirectional Geo explosion that's 4x stronger than her normal AP, which, considering the fact that Retsu has to be in melee range to break said shield open, basically guarantees he gets absolutely blasted.
Voting Noelle.
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Noelle isn't landing any hit with their skill difference, 50% more ap isn't that impotatant for the fight, the barrier can withstand attack far stronger than the allogenes including one that could oneshot them without breaking immediately and didn't you said it yourself in the Klee vs Bakudo thread that the shield is at least 5x the allogenes ap? The barrier can be kept up and recharge as long as there is elemental energy right? cause if it isn't then it would only took Bakugo 4 attack to break Klee shield which isn't what you make it up to be. How do we count breastplate blowing up if it did 4x dura ?
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Wait nvm you didn't said 5x more but it would still be in that range if not more since aether got casually ragdolled around and barely damage the monster and the shield tanked an attack which could have oneshot her normally so i would say 5x isn't far fetched if not conservative.
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You meant to say Amber. But while yes, "5x max AP" is certainly reasonable, I'd prefer not to use multiplier that aren't at least stated in-game.
Everyone is misinterpreting how the shields work. They're very tough, yes, but not much more so than normal forcefields that can be worn down with consecutive attacks. While Amber's shield did tank an attack that would've one-shot her, that left the shield almost broken. As seen with Childe's boss fight, several normal attacks can accumulate to damage equal to one attack that's several times stronger than a normal one. Five normal full-power hits would equal to one hit that's 5 times stronger than normal, for example.
Retsu can't break Noelle's shield with one hit, but he can wail on that shield until it does break. It's not a matter of "you either can or can't", it's a matter of "how many hits does it take".
As for the matter of the skill difference, Noelle may not be able to land blows normally, but considering she can just as easily use Sweeping Time and massively increase the range and AOE of her sword, and the fact that Retsu has to get close in order to even hit her would close up a lot of the skill difference. Noelle's shield is large enough that Retsu is stuck in mid-range the whole time it's up, so Noelle, having a greatsword, would have the advantage. Retsu is constantly in Noelle's range, while Noelle is constantly outside of Retsu's until he manages to break her shield, and he has to do that while avoiding a sword three times his size.
Meanwhile, this is all assuming he only tries to dodge, because there's no way for him to know how strong Noelle actually is, especialy since she's so small and has no visibly-impressive musculature. So the moment he tries deflecting the sword, he gets overpowered by Striking Strength capable of blasting through Shaori - his best defense.
Even if he still manages to dodge all of that, the moment he breaks her shield, he gets blasted by a Geo explosion that's 4x stronger than the sword swings he had just finished evading, which were already capable of severely harming him. Then assuming he somehow survives that, he'd still take a moment to regain his bearings, which is all the time Noelle needs to put her shield back up and maybe smack him around a bit while he's dazed.
The only chance Retsu has is via choosing to only evade (very unlikely) and successfully evading (difficult) every single swing from a ****-huge greatsword while stuck in an unfavorable range, proceeding to smash through the shield keeping him at said range (takes over a dozen of full-power hits to do), survive the ensuing explosion (highly unlikely) while regaining his bearings faster than Noelle can put her shield back up and/or attack him (even more unlikely). Retsu then needs to kill a completely-undamaged Noelle (difficult) before she puts her shield back up (she can do this with a tiny gesture) without taking or trying to deflect a single hit from her in the meantime (again, very unlikely).
Absolutely Noelle 9/10 times.
Everyone is misinterpreting how the shields work. They're very tough, yes, but not much more so than normal forcefields that can be worn down with consecutive attacks. While Amber's shield did tank an attack that would've one-shot her, that left the shield almost broken. As seen with Childe's boss fight, several normal attacks can accumulate to damage equal to one attack that's several times stronger than a normal one. Five normal full-power hits would equal to one hit that's 5 times stronger than normal, for example.
Retsu can't break Noelle's shield with one hit, but he can wail on that shield until it does break. It's not a matter of "you either can or can't", it's a matter of "how many hits does it take".
As for the matter of the skill difference, Noelle may not be able to land blows normally, but considering she can just as easily use Sweeping Time and massively increase the range and AOE of her sword, and the fact that Retsu has to get close in order to even hit her would close up a lot of the skill difference. Noelle's shield is large enough that Retsu is stuck in mid-range the whole time it's up, so Noelle, having a greatsword, would have the advantage. Retsu is constantly in Noelle's range, while Noelle is constantly outside of Retsu's until he manages to break her shield, and he has to do that while avoiding a sword three times his size.
Meanwhile, this is all assuming he only tries to dodge, because there's no way for him to know how strong Noelle actually is, especialy since she's so small and has no visibly-impressive musculature. So the moment he tries deflecting the sword, he gets overpowered by Striking Strength capable of blasting through Shaori - his best defense.
Even if he still manages to dodge all of that, the moment he breaks her shield, he gets blasted by a Geo explosion that's 4x stronger than the sword swings he had just finished evading, which were already capable of severely harming him. Then assuming he somehow survives that, he'd still take a moment to regain his bearings, which is all the time Noelle needs to put her shield back up and maybe smack him around a bit while he's dazed.
The only chance Retsu has is via choosing to only evade (very unlikely) and successfully evading (difficult) every single swing from a ****-huge greatsword while stuck in an unfavorable range, proceeding to smash through the shield keeping him at said range (takes over a dozen of full-power hits to do), survive the ensuing explosion (highly unlikely) while regaining his bearings faster than Noelle can put her shield back up and/or attack him (even more unlikely). Retsu then needs to kill a completely-undamaged Noelle (difficult) before she puts her shield back up (she can do this with a tiny gesture) without taking or trying to deflect a single hit from her in the meantime (again, very unlikely).
Absolutely Noelle 9/10 times.
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Retsu has way more versatility in his techniques but they're all rendered useless by Noelle's greater defence. On the other hand, Noel needs to be able to bypass Shaori to do any meaningful damage to Retsu.
If she can manage that, I think she could win more times than not.
If she can manage that, I think she could win more times than not.
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Noelle for Solacis' reasons
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IIRC, Pickle bypassed Shaori via sheer AP superiority. Can someone give us Retsu's exact AP and/or link the calc he scales to? I've been going off of what I've read above, in that Pickle is 5.5 megatons and managed to overpower Shaori with raw strength, so I assume it just takes 5.5 megatons or higher AP to bypass it. Noelle's strength is notably superior to people superior to people massively superior to 4 megatons, and has her own stat amps, both passive and active.
She'll find it extremely hard to hit Retsu if he chooses to dodge, but there are a lot of things in her favor while her shield is up. A stupidly large weapon, Retsu being stuck in mid-range until her shield breaks, etc. But most damning of all is that Retsu won't expect her to be so strong, and won't know to avoid trying to deflect her sword.
Plus, even if he dodges everything, he flat-out can't dodge the Geo explosion caused by her shield breaking, and that's easily strong enough to one-shot considering it's 4x stronger than anything else Noelle can dish out.
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I vote Noelle, I think Retsu could manage get through the shield, it would be probably hard and the explosion is to dangerous for him. After seeing suddenly so many Genshi match I think I'm gonna do one myself.
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Quick question, is the weapon also covered by the shield or does it like hover outside of it? I ask cause if it's the latter he could disarm her with his LS edge iirc he's supposed to have like class 25 or 50.
Also her being a petite maid won't make Retsu take her lightly, remember he can accurately size up people with a glance. So he could likely tell she has a lot of power behind her
Also her being a petite maid won't make Retsu take her lightly, remember he can accurately size up people with a glance. So he could likely tell she has a lot of power behind her
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I mean willing to kill would mean you'd take things seriously would u not? If he doesn't then combined with everything said up top this might be a possible stomp I guess?
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It's Retsu, maybe at first he don't go with all, but shouldn't take him much to note that Noelle is dangerous and have to fight seriously.
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Willing to kill just means that they have no hesitation regarding killing the opponent. Character flaws, like being arrogant or paranoid, still apply.
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He'll only take her seriously the moment he gets hit. Before that, the only thing he'll see is a tiny girl with a sword way too big for her hiding behind a forcefield. Considering the gap in skill, he'll dodge most of her attacks easily, and seeing her relative lack of skill, would be inclined to take her less seriously.
Obviously this is to his detriment, but Baki characters getting wrecked by weaker fighters for being too confident in their superiority is hardly rare. Baki himself got his ass whooped several times for that exact reason.
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So can he disarm her of the sword? Does the shield likely fully cover the blade or smth?
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Not really. All Vision users can summon and de-summon their weapon in-&-out of combat, and yes, the shield fully covers her, including the sword.
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That's way I said the part about 'It's Retsu', if it was any other character from Baki then I can easely see them underestimate the other, but Retsu no, in the moment he see that she is strong/special for that about having a strong shield and a bid sword that although lack skill can do much damage, then he's gonna be serious.
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No it doesn't
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- #77
Aight if she can recall it back then fair
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- #78
Yeah he sizes up even folks that are below his level, like in Raitai when he fought Japanese VSauce Michael he was able to deduce his plans right from the get go
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After seeing Solacis comment I feel like it’s better if we use a different character as if that’s the case it’s seem like a stomp. You can use another Baki character if you need to
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No when Retsu fought Pickle he didn’t have Xiao he used it against Musashi who highly scale above 5.5 megatons and Retsu has his own amps to but yeah I still feel like stomp for her
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