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NNT Physiology Revision (Punching Air Edition)

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Makai64100 said:
The panel where it says it rots darkness and magic shows the effects

Ark erase darkness and demons are made of darkness
Click to expand...
Can you link it? I ain't a knowledgeable on NNT, I can't just recognize panels that you bring up that haven't been posted.
 
Deceived said:
Continuing from my previous thread

Counting on with CRT spree with NNT, this thread is explicitly focusing on the physiology-based abilities which i either personally disagree with, wanted to revise or need further clarification on given the relative low-quality of the pages i'm dealing with.

With that, lets get this thread started.

Demon Physiology.​

Abilities:​

Resistance Negation -

Neither scan present on the page actually proves Resistance Negation at all, the fairy king's forest being immune to normal flames =/= Hellblaze needing to have Resistance Negation to actually burn down the forest since

1. Purgatory Fire aren't “natural flames” at all, they’re explicitly unnatural flames which demons can use and create. So that statement wouldn't be applicable to them.

2. Purgatory Fire have heats which are vastly above any natural flame in existence, with it being able to burn and damage people who resisted the heat of lightning bolts while in mid-air like Gilthunder.

This is also applicable to the Izraf statement since he isn’t saying or implying that only Purgatory Fire can wound him because of it specifically negating his resistance in the way which would grant Resistance Negation, it’s more so he’s saying that Purgatory Fire has higher temperatures comparative to normal flames, with normal flames being unable to “wound” him but Purgatory Fire being able to “wound” him because of massively increased heat/potency.

Given this context about both feats, this should be removed from the page entirely since the feats used aren’t actual feats of Resistance Negation.
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I don't agree with your breakdown here. It seems what you're saying here is that the reason why Purgatory Fire is able to burn those or things who aren't supposed to be able to be burned is because its hotter when nothing about these statements indicate this being a matter of heat. What all of the above scans point towards is that Purgatory Fire has a special property that allows it to ignore normal resistance to flames. That would best be categories as negating the resistance here in this instance
Deceived said:

Goddesses Physiology.​

Deconstruction -​


This should be changed into limited since it’s heavily implied by Monspeet the reason behind why Ark’s actually deconstruct demons is because it’s “a power that specifically counteracts our darkness”, which is something only demonic entities have in the series as stated also by Monspeet. So unless supporters can provide evidence of Ark’s deconstructing things which aren’t demonic in nature this should be specified to work only on demonic entities.
Click to expand...
This one is actually pretty explict. Monspeet makes two separate statements about Ark. One is that is specifically counteracts darkness, but the other is a breakdown of how the technique itself works. Monspeet doesn't say that Ark only deconstructs demons or anything like that. He says it specifically counteracts darkness. And separately says it disintegrates through assailing the target with particles of light. There shouldn't be a need of more evidence here of how Ark works since the explanation provided to us.
Deceived said:
Power Nullification -

Same reasoning behind Deconstruction, if shown to only work against powers which are from demonic entities it should be specified to only work on demons
Click to expand...
The statement provided doesn't point towards it only working on demons. It just says it disintegrates magic with no specification to what magic. There shouldn't be a need for more evidence here since the statement is pretty blatant and unless there is some contradiction you yourself have found to go against it.
Deceived said:
Existence Erasure -

The scan which is used to argue this ability doesn't imply Existence Erasure at all, it only denotes the Ark's of higher-ranking angels not only destroy the physical body, but also the spiritual one alongside it. This would only be Soul Manipulation since "destroy" doesn't imply the soul being completely erased from existence at all. Unless supporters can provide extra context which points to the "destroy" statement being an EE statement rather than a Soul Manipulation statement this should be removed from the page.
Click to expand...
I will actually use the case of the Qunicy to disagree with you here. They're allowed to have Limited EE (which you yourself pushed for) with the same idea. Both groups destroy the soul with no mentions of explicity erasing. Both are just destroying the soul. If the quincy are allowed to exist with Limited EE from destorying souls, the Goddess Clan should be fine to exist with LImited EE as well from doing the same.

I agree with all the other changes.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I don't agree with your breakdown here. It seems what you're saying here is that the reason why Purgatory Fire is able to burn those or things who aren't supposed to be able to be burned is because its hotter when nothing about these statements indicate this being a matter of heat. What all of the above scans point towards is that Purgatory Fire has a special property that allows it to ignore normal resistance to flames. That would best be categories as negating the resistance here in this instance

This one is actually pretty explict. Monspeet makes two separate statements about Ark. One is that is specifically counteracts darkness, but the other is a breakdown of how the technique itself works. Monspeet doesn't say that Ark only deconstructs demons or anything like that. He says it specifically counteracts darkness. And separately says it disintegrates through assailing the target with particles of light. There shouldn't be a need of more evidence here of how Ark works since the explanation provided to us.

The statement provided doesn't point towards it only working on demons. It just says it disintegrates magic with no specification to what magic. There shouldn't be a need for more evidence here since the statement is pretty blatant and unless there is some contradiction you yourself have found to go against it.

I will actually use the case of the Qunicy to disagree with you here. They're allowed to have Limited EE (which you yourself pushed for) with the same idea. Both groups destroy the soul with no mentions of explicity erasing. Both are just destroying the soul. If the quincy are allowed to exist with Limited EE from destorying souls, the Goddess Clan should be fine to exist with LImited EE as well from doing the same.

I agree with all the other changes.
Click to expand...
I’ve cleared some of the things you still agree with if you want to check it.
 
Duedate8898 said:
I will actually use the case of the Qunicy to disagree with you here. They're allowed to have Limited EE (which you yourself pushed for) with the same idea. Both groups destroy the soul with no mentions of explicity erasing. Both are just destroying the soul. If the quincy are allowed to exist with Limited EE from destorying souls, the Goddess Clan should be fine to exist with LImited EE as well from doing the same.
Click to expand...
Difference here is the Quincy are stated to ERASE Hollows from existence. Tmk the Goddess Clan has no erasure statement. Destroying souls =/= EE, or else every single Bleach character would have EE. You need a statement saying you’re erasing something out of existence, destruction alone has never been EE.
 
Quincy are stated to erase Hollows multiple times. There isn't a comparison to be made here and I'm really not sure why an experienced staff member is resorting to using blatant whataboutism's.


Let's not get other verses involved here.
 
Another thing to add is that Purgatory flames are never stated to have "special" properties to negate resistance to heat and or fire Manipulation.


This isn't anything like Marco's Phoenix Flames from OP which are stated to have special properties and shown to negate extreme resistance to fire and heat Manipulation. Purgatory simply burn at a much hotter temperature than normal fire, that's kinda of how fire works. Unless Purgatory Flames are stated to negate resistance specially then resistance negation needs to GO.
 
Destroying a soul and body is not EE. Sincerely, most EE on wiki are not true EE anyway... like actually erasing someone existing and thus they no longer are remembered, all their actions, achievements erased from history etc but this is another thing. You could destroy someone's mind body and soul and still have it just destruction, deconstruction, desintegration, shattering, etc any other type of such attack.

If it doesn't state or somehow say/shows its an EE clearly then you don't get it.

Resisting one type of hax doesn't give you resistence to its other applications.
 
Zaratthustra said:
Destroying a soul and body is not EE. Sincerely, most EE on wiki are not true EE anyway... like actually erasing someone existing and thus they no longer are remembered, all their actions, achievements erased from history etc but this is another thing. You could destroy someone's mind body and soul and still have it just destruction, deconstruction, desintegration, shattering, etc any other type of such attack.

If it doesn't state or somehow say/shows its an EE clearly then you don't get it.

Resisting one type of hax doesn't give you resistence to its other applications.
Click to expand...
The EE Is based on the complete destruction of demons

The soul erasure Is just something that enhance the hax potency


LordGinSama said:
Another thing to add is that Purgatory flames are never stated to have "special" properties to negate resistance to heat and or fire Manipulation.


This isn't anything like Marco's Phoenix Flames from OP which are stated to have special properties and shown to negate extreme resistance to fire and heat Manipulation. Purgatory simply burn at a much hotter temperature than normal fire, that's kinda of how fire works. Unless Purgatory Flames are stated to negate resistance specially then resistance negation needs to GO.
Click to expand...
As i said We discussed it and decided it has to go anyway so discussing it Here Is useless

I think i adressed pretty much everything else
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Difference here is the Quincy are stated to ERASE Hollows from existence. Tmk the Goddess Clan has no erasure statement. Destroying souls =/= EE, or else every single Bleach character would have EE. You need a statement saying you’re erasing something out of existence, destruction alone has never been EE.
Click to expand...
Thing is, looking at the scans provided for the ability on the quincy phsyiology page that isn't shown in its justification. So it clearly wasn't important enough to be needed with the Quincy. So I don't see it being important enough here with NNT.

I only bring in Bleach because the same thing being asked for here isn't provided there. So, if it can stand as is, then this should be able to stand as it is as well.

Simple as that.

LordGinSama said:
Another thing to add is that Purgatory flames are never stated to have "special" properties to negate resistance to heat and or fire Manipulation.


This isn't anything like Marco's Phoenix Flames from OP which are stated to have special properties and shown to negate extreme resistance to fire and heat Manipulation. Purgatory simply burn at a much hotter temperature than normal fire, that's kinda of how fire works. Unless Purgatory Flames are stated to negate resistance specially then resistance negation needs to GO.
Click to expand...
I disagree here because, its made clear that the Purgatory has a special property that allows it to burn where normal fire can't. This very much isn't treated as a matter of temperature difference but of difference in nature. To assume that the Purgatory Fire only works because it's hotter has no real support within the story itself. They don't say the fire is hotter than normal fire, Izraf himself doesn't even specify the heat being the problem of it. The story and words surrounding Purgatory fire is that it's different from normal fire, so its able to work where normal fire can't. It's being pointed in both provided scans that Purgatory Fire has special properties that allows it to burn those who are supposed to have an immunity to normal fire. If Resistance Negation isn't going to work with then it should be noted to ignore resistance to fire, because that's what's being communicated.
 
Duedate8898 said:
Thing is, looking at the scans provided for the ability on the quincy phsyiology page that isn't shown in its justification. So it clearly wasn't important enough to be needed with the Quincy. So I don't see it being important enough here with NNT.

I only bring in Bleach because the same thing being asked for here isn't provided there. So, if it can stand as is, then this should be able to stand as it is as well.

Simple as that.
Click to expand...
I just checked and you’re right, that definitely needs to get updated. But “completely eradicate the soul” vs “destroy the soul” are not comparable statements to begin with anyhow. Doesn’t change the fact that Bleach has a scan stating the Hollows are erased. That scan not being properly present in the blog isn’t an excuse for other verses to get improper EE ratings.

We don’t justify incorrect ratings with other incorrect ratings.

It’s that simple.
 
Last edited:
Makai64100 said:
The EE Is based on the complete destruction of demons

The soul erasure Is just something that enhance the hax potency



As i said We discussed it and decided it has to go anyway so discussing it Here Is useless

I think i adressed pretty much everything else
Click to expand...
Complete destruction of someone doesnt mean EE If its not stated. Deconstruction, Desintegration or similar level of destruction is enough.
 
It just two scans without further context. Both show a different attack in one panel where nothing is explained.
 
speedster352 said:
What was it about?
Click to expand...
So you didn't bother to read what they were replying to and just immediately went and said "gotta disagree".
speedster352 said:
Maybe because the Albion’s where erased without a trace?
Click to expand...
So where's does it say they're erased from existence because as others have said, destroying the body and soul does not automatically equate to having EE without further context.
 
Can you prove there are no molecules? The scan where it says there are no molecules left.
 
speedster352 said:
Stop with the head canon. we don’t see any trace means that their are no trace simple.
Click to expand...
That doesn't mean all matter is completely annihilated. Like, actual statements are needed for anything past vvaporisation.
 
You can't see molecules with your eyes man. Thats why people kept asking for scans where it backs EE with statements.
 
Planck69 said:
That doesn't mean all matter is completely annihilated. Like, actual statements are needed for anything past vvaporisation.
Click to expand...
There is no vapour why are you using head canon all of a sudden. They say begone without a trace and they destroy their body and soul that’s EE or at least limited EE.
 
Planck didn't say there is vapor. He said that above vaporization level of destruction it needs statements.
 
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