NNT Physiology Revision (Punching Air Edition)

[Purgy]

No mention of erasure or absolute destruction = no existence erasure, it's that simple, that's how it's always been done.

 

[Deceived3596]

Sorry for taking longer to respond, i poured boiling water on my finger while i was cooking, which greatly decreased my desire to type this out. But since the pain has gone away i'll respond to your contentions above.

I don't agree with your breakdown here. It seems what you're saying here is that the reason why Purgatory Fire is able to burn those or things who aren't supposed to be able to be burned is because its hotter when nothing about these statements indicate this being a matter of heat. What all of the above scans point towards is that Purgatory Fire has a special property that allows it to ignore normal resistance to flames. That would best be categories as negating the resistance here in this instance

I'm only saying it's a "matter of heat" for specifically the Izraf statement, i only used the heat of Purgatory Fire as supporting evidence for my main evidence being Purgatory Fire is explicitly stated to be "unnatural flames", which means it would be completely exempt from the Fairy King's Forest statement which denotes it's completely immune to "natural flames". This wouldn't be Purgatory Fire having some-sort of inherent negation against fire resistances but rather the Fairy King's Forest having an inherent weakness against "unnatural flames", which is what Purgatory Fire is.

Now onto Izraf statement, that doesn't imply Purgatory Fire having a special property which allows it to negate resistances fire and heat. It's Izraf saying that Purgatory Fire is the only fire (that he knows of) which can damage him, nothing implies some-sort of negation property at all. Especially since Izraf was damaged by Sunshine specifically in that panel, which caused Izraf to compare it to Purgatory Fire. Sunshine doesn't have any Resistance Negation properties at all, so the fact Izraf thought Sunshine's Fire was Purgatory Fire points to him more so talking about the heat of the fire which he was affected by compared to some Resistance Negation property which isn't supported at all given the context of the feat.

This one is actually pretty explict. Monspeet makes two separate statements about Ark. One is that is specifically counteracts darkness, but the other is a breakdown of how the technique itself works. Monspeet doesn't say that Ark only deconstructs demons or anything like that. He says it specifically counteracts darkness. And separately says it disintegrates through assailing the target with particles of light. There shouldn't be a need of more evidence here of how Ark works since the explanation provided to us.

Demon's constitution is directly made up of darkness particles, Ark is also directly stated to specifically counteract the darkness of demons. Given this knowledge and the fact all the feats in the series only show demons being deconstructed, it would take a higher preponderance of evidence to claim that Ark's deconstruction can work on anything compared to only working on demonic entities.

Also it seems you missed the feat which Life_Of_King posted which heavily implies Ark's don't deconstruct things which aren't demonic in nature. With Tristan being unable to effect someone with his Ark because that person wasn't a demon.

The statement provided doesn't point towards it only working on demons. It just says it disintegrates magic with no specification to what magic. There shouldn't be a need for more evidence here since the statement is pretty blatant and unless there is some contradiction you yourself have found to go against it.

The statement was in context of the Ark eroding the magic of demons, just because the statement doesn't denote it's only effective against demons doesn't mean it's effective against everyone, including other angels and humans. That's an argument from silence. Given the amount of feats and statements which show or imply Ark's only being effective against demonic creatures, with it specifically stated to counteract the darkness of demons. You'd require a higher preponderance of evidence to assume that this would be effective against non-demonic entities as well, compared to me assuming it only works against demonic entities.

I will actually use the case of the Qunicy to disagree with you here. They're allowed to have Limited EE (which you yourself pushed for) with the same idea. Both groups destroy the soul with no mentions of explicity erasing. Both are just destroying the soul. If the quincy are allowed to exist with Limited EE from destorying souls, the Goddess Clan should be fine to exist with LImited EE as well from doing the same.

Arc and Co already address this so i won't.

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

NNT's losing many abilities these duys huh... I'm leaning towards agreeing to the OP.

 

[Makai641001]

NNT's losing many abilities these duys huh... I'm leaning towards agreeing to the OP.

I provided a pretty good amount of proofs for multiple abilities not everything will Go in fact the only things that’ll Go are things We already discussed and agreed to remove

 

[speedster352]

Don’t just add this address the points we made first.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Don’t just add this address the points we made first.

This comment serves no constructive purpose here, it solely serves to stoke the flames of poor relations. It's not necessary here, you've already been warned about continuing to instigate. Deceived will apply the thread when he's gained sufficient staff support and a sufficient grace period has passed, that is how things are done here and how they've always been done here. If you have a point you want particularly addressed, bump the argument and ask for staff opinion on it.

 

[Nierre]

this is rough

 

[Arkenis]

damn came for nothing it seems.

 

[Deceived3596]

Don’t just add this address the points we made first.

I am addressing your points

I'll address Makai's contentions later, just woke up.

 

[Deceived3596]

Destroying a soul and body is not EE. Sincerely, most EE on wiki are not true EE anyway... like actually erasing someone existing and thus they no longer are remembered, all their actions, achievements erased from history etc but this is another thing. You could destroy someone's mind body and soul and still have it just destruction, deconstruction, desintegration, shattering, etc any other type of such attack.

If it doesn't state or somehow say/shows its an EE clearly then you don't get it.

Resisting one type of hax doesn't give you resistence to its other applications.

That doesn't mean all matter is completely annihilated. Like, actual statements are needed for anything past vvaporisation.

Sorry (not sorry) for quoting/pinging you guys but can you give your opinion about the thread in its entirety? it currently needs more staff evaluations and since you guys are staff members your opinion would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Staff don’t get pinged by blue users mrk

 

[azontr]

He didn't ping them he quoted them

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Deceived has no chill.

How many NNT CRT threads are you going to spew out your ass lmfao.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Jokes aside, these make sense to me.

 

[Deceived3596]

This was already in discussion and We agreed about it’s removal

Alright.

Demons eat souls to recover magic they can Also eat normal human food for the taste but can also survive 3000 years of sealing without eating or 500 years of jail

People like Meliodas could fight for years without eating against Ban in purgatory

With those scans, the ability can stay.

Meliodas survived Freeze coffin
Guila did too by turning into a demon

With those scans, the resistance can stay.

We talked about removing it too already the CRT Is dead tho

Alright.

We already specify it’s during matérialisation

Limited is fine for everyone except SD tho maybe it’ll avoid

Alright.

We already state it’s working on dark related magic

I know it works on dark related magic, what the page doesn't imply is that it only works on dark related magic, which i'm arguing for. It needs a more in-depth description which clearly states it only works on dark magic, since it currently only states "it's mostly used to counteract darkness of demons" which implies it can counteract things which aren't demonic. Which isn't the case.

No.
Ark rots away MAGIC

The statement was in context of the Ark eroding the magic of demons, just because the statement doesn't denote it's only effective against demons doesn't mean it's effective against everyone, including other angels and humans. That's an argument from silence. Given the amount of feats and statements which show or imply Ark's only being effective against demonic creatures, with it specifically stated to counteract the darkness of demons. You'd require a higher preponderance of evidence to assume that this would be effective against non-demonic entities as well, compared to me assuming it only works against demonic entities.

Orlondi Is a low tier Vampire and could survive this type of injuries
As we know the author make the physiologies evolve along with the power.
Demons can survive being pierced and decapitated it applies to all of them.
In a similar way Vampires are constantly depicted as surviving heavy damage without dying as Gelda surviving decapitation
We actually have no reasons to downgrade this

There's absolutely a reason why to "downgrade" this, the reason behind is that we aren't given any statements or implications this is scaleable to every member of the vampire clan. Just because Orlondi is a low-tier vampire doesn't mean he has lesser regeneration capabilities comparative to higher level vampires, similar on how being a higher class of vampire doesn't mean you would have the inherent capabilities of lower class vampires. It's too assumptive to claim. You'd have to provide actual scans which show a quantitative difference physiologically between lower class and higher class vampires to even begin claiming we should scale regeneration, which you haven't done yet.

Mid level regeneration also isn't proof of High-Mid level regeneration, just because Gelda can survive and regenerate from decapitation doesn't prove she can regenerate after being reduced to an eyeball.

Idk about this one i wasn’t Here
but they can survive thousands of years of sealing (She got sealed by Zel before he got sealed for 3000 years and then went out of the sealing after he did) without eating/drinking blood
And Orlondi Is basically an eye… Which means she can’t eat…

If you can provide scans for the "thousands of years of sealing" stuff then i'm fine with the ability staying.

 

[Deceived3596]

How many NNT CRT threads are you going to spew out your ass lmfao.

At least one more, probably more if i find more shit to disagree with.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

At least one more, probably more if i find more shit to disagree with.

Next level dedication.

 

[Deceived3596]

If NNT fans didn't wank stuff then i wouldn't be here, but since there's a lot of incorrect things on the profiles. I'm here.

 

[speedster352]

If NNT fans didn't wank stuff then i wouldn't be here, but since there's a lot of incorrect things on the profiles. I'm here.

Stop acting so high and mighty. And stop grouping all of us most of us weren’t even present when the abilities were added. You have been warned stop mocking me and The NNT COMMUNITY. Keep going and you can get banned. This is going too far.

 

[Majinere566]

Shut up bro

 

[RandomGuy2345]

"Stop acting so high and mighty. And stop grouping all of us most of us weren’t even present when the abilities were added. You have been warned stop mocking me and The NNT COMMUNITY. Keep going and you can get banned. This is going too far."

 

[Makai641001]

I know it works on dark related magic, what the page doesn't imply is that it only works on dark related magic, which i'm arguing for. It needs a more in-depth description which clearly states it only works on dark magic, since it currently only states "it's mostly used to counteract darkness of demons" which implies it can counteract things which aren't demonic. Which isn't the case.

The light Manip in itself can Also harm humans or fairies hence why We use « mostly » it’s just more efficient on demons but i think we could provide a more detailed explanation

There's absolutely a reason why to "downgrade" this, the reason behind is that we aren't given any statements or implications this is scaleable to every member of the vampire clan. Just because Orlondi is a low-tier vampire doesn't mean he has lesser regeneration capabilities comparative to higher level vampires, similar on how being a higher class of vampire doesn't mean you would have the inherent capabilities of lower class vampires. It's too assumptive to claim. You'd have to provide actual scans which show a quantitative difference physiologically between lower class and higher class vampires to even begin claiming we should scale regeneration, which you haven't done yet.

Mid level regeneration also isn't proof of High-Mid level regeneration, just because Gelda can survive and regenerate from decapitation doesn't prove she can regenerate after being reduced to an eyeball.

I mean that’s the point of a physiology us humans have similar regenerations
Demons in NNT have similar regen but the stronger They get the stronger all of their capacities get too

The High lvl regen Is stated to be a Vampire related trait iirc i don’t see why Orlondi a weak ass vampire would have better capacities than other weak ass vampires or even worse, stronger ones especially if it’s not even implied

If you can provide scans for the "thousands of years of sealing" stuff then i'm fine with the ability staying.

I’ll Edit this message once i find them i already gave a bit of context

few for both

For further context What Meli said to Zel Is that Gelda awoke from the Sealing 12 years ago (Zeldris was still sealed Therefore she thought he abandonned her and she wanted to die) Meliodas sealed her again for a bit so basically she was sealed a first time for a bit more than 3000 years by Zel that himself got sealed for 3000 years then Gelda awoke and got sealed again for 12 years

 

[Deceived3596]

Stop acting so high and mighty

I'm not.

And stop grouping all of us most of us weren’t even present when the abilities were added

You quite literally were their Speedster for the vast majority of these added powers, and you just "agree FRA"'d them, you didn't look at the abilities or resistances being proposed critically, you just blindly agreed with them because they upgraded the verse.

You have been warned stop mocking me and The NNT COMMUNITY

I'm not mocking either you or the community, i'm just stating my opinion on the matter. That's it.

Keep going and you can get banned. This is going too far.

I'm not going to get banned because i haven't done anything ban worthy, and no this isn't going "too far". Removing incorrect information from profiles is a good thing, regardless it's from a verse you like or dislike.

 

[Makai641001]

I'm not.


You quite literally were their Speedster for the vast majority of these added powers, and you just "agree FRA"'d them, you didn't look at the abilities or resistances being proposed critically, you just blindly agreed with them because they upgraded the verse.


I'm not mocking either you or the community, i'm just stating my opinion on the matter. That's it.


I'm not going to get banned because i haven't done anything ban worthy, and no this isn't going "too far". Removing incorrect information from profiles is a good thing, regardless it's from a verse you like or dislike.

I think it’s a good thing and you didn’t seduce me or anything like this.

But i think y’all troll a bit too much sometimes so We should all relax and stop derailing or using memes to mock other users.

 

[speedster352]

I'm not.


You quite literally were their Speedster for the vast majority of these added powers, and you just "agree FRA"'d them, you didn't look at the abilities or resistances being proposed critically, you just blindly agreed with them because they upgraded the verse.


I'm not mocking either you or the community, i'm just stating my opinion on the matter. That's it.


I'm not going to get banned because i haven't done anything ban worthy, and no this isn't going "too far". Removing incorrect information from profiles is a good thing, regardless it's from a verse you like or dislike.

What your doing is causing unnecessary strife. That is not true I don’t remember doing that only for a few crt in the past. This is clearly done out of prejudice. I highly advise you stop what you are doing and don’t bother asking because you KNOW what I am talking about. Do not group nnt supporters.

 

[azontr]

Speed, please just shut the **** up. Please. The CRT cannot progress with you whining at every turn about your verse getting downgraded.

 

[Deceived3596]

What your doing is causing unnecessary strife

It isn't, it's just causing NNT fanboys like yourself to cope.

That is not true I don’t remember doing that only for a few crt in the past

Now you're just lying Speed, everyone knows your character in regards to NNT, don't act like you critically look over all the abilities/resistances or proposed changes for the verse when you clearly don't. You just "agree FRA" anything which upgrades the verse, that's it.

We definitely know this because you quite literally never agree with any NNT downgrade, which is shown in all of my threads.

This is clearly done out of prejudice

I highly advise you stop what you are doing and don’t bother asking because you KNOW what I am talking about. Do not group nnt supporters

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Speed can you like...not?

Wtf does being prejudice have to do with a ******* NNT CRT?

 

[Makai641001]

The light Manip in itself can Also harm humans or fairies hence why We use « mostly » it’s just more efficient on demons but i think we could provide a more detailed explanation




I mean that’s the point of a physiology us humans have similar regenerations
Demons in NNT have similar regen but the stronger They get the stronger all of their capacities get too

The High lvl regen Is stated to be a Vampire related trait iirc i don’t see why Orlondi a weak ass vampire would have better capacities than other weak ass vampires or even worse, stronger ones especially if it’s not even implied


I’ll Edit this message once i find them i already gave a bit of context

few for both

For further context What Meli said to Zel Is that Gelda awoke from the Sealing 12 years ago (Zeldris was still sealed Therefore she thought he abandonned her and she wanted to die) Meliodas sealed her again for a bit so basically she was sealed a first time for a bit more than 3000 years by Zel that himself got sealed for 3000 years then Gelda awoke and got sealed again for 12 years

Edited

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

What your doing is causing unnecessary strife.

Only for you and a select few.

That is not true I don’t remember doing that only for a few crt in the past.

Maybe because, as Ant and you have said before, you have brain damage due to your accident.

This is clearly done out of prejudice. I highly advise you stop what you are doing and don’t bother asking because you KNOW what I am talking about. Do not group nnt supporters.

And you're clearly doing this because you don't want your favorite verse suffering any form of criticism or downgrades.

 

[speedster352]

It isn't, it's just causing NNT fanboys like yourself to cope.


Now you're just lying Speed, everyone knows your character in regards to NNT, don't act like you critically look over all the abilities/resistances or proposed changes for the verse when you clearly don't. You just "agree FRA" anything which upgrades the verse, that's it.

We definitely know this because you quite literally never agree with any NNT downgrade, which is shown in all of my threads.

You have an ulterior motive but I digress I am un watching btw

 

[azontr]

Who tf has ulterior motives on this site, it's a debating forum there's no motives to be had other than to index information, your not gaining anything other than that.

 

[thetechmaster36]

This is why I hardly participate in NNT threads beyond a message or two anymore, 'cause of this lmao

Alright.


With those scans, the ability can stay.


With those scans, the resistance can stay.


Alright.


Alright.


I know it works on dark related magic, what the page doesn't imply is that it only works on dark related magic, which i'm arguing for. It needs a more in-depth description which clearly states it only works on dark magic, since it currently only states "it's mostly used to counteract darkness of demons" which implies it can counteract things which aren't demonic. Which isn't the case.





There's absolutely a reason why to "downgrade" this, the reason behind is that we aren't given any statements or implications this is scaleable to every member of the vampire clan. Just because Orlondi is a low-tier vampire doesn't mean he has lesser regeneration capabilities comparative to higher level vampires, similar on how being a higher class of vampire doesn't mean you would have the inherent capabilities of lower class vampires. It's too assumptive to claim. You'd have to provide actual scans which show a quantitative difference physiologically between lower class and higher class vampires to even begin claiming we should scale regeneration, which you haven't done yet.

Mid level regeneration also isn't proof of High-Mid level regeneration, just because Gelda can survive and regenerate from decapitation doesn't prove she can regenerate after being reduced to an eyeball.


If you can provide scans for the "thousands of years of sealing" stuff then i'm fine with the ability staying.

Anyways, I agree with this post, and should the relevant scans be brought up and deemed okay, I'll agree with those too.

 

[Makai641001]

This is why I hardly participate in NNT threads beyond a message or two anymore, 'cause of this lmao

Anyways, I agree with this post, and should the relevant scans be brought up and deemed okay, I'll agree with those too.

I brought some Deceived agreed with most

I might also stop talking in these threads as this situation is so recurent
I’ll probably go for another verse to defend.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Thank God he unfollowed, I was about to report him for inciting unnecessary toxicity and derailing.

So the topic of debate is whether or not the PN is limited to just demons darkness or all magic correct? Have we moved past the EE point?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

You have an ulterior motive but I digress I am un watching btw

And you've still shown you have a Biased attitude in regards to the verse, even when other users and staff have given you multiple warnings, bans, and explanations over the course of several months since April of 2021

 

[azontr]

Have we moved past the EE point?

Based on @Deceived's and @Makai64100's recent posts, yeah.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

So the topic of debate is whether or not the PN is limited to just demons darkness or all magic correct?

Ark wasn't used much against other forms of magic, the only prominent time I remember it being used on things other than Demons was with 4C Mael spamming it and bombarding Liones.

 

[Makai641001]

Ark wasn't used much against other forms of magic, the only prominent time I remember it being used on things other than Demons was with 4C Mael spamming it and bombarding Liones.

The part of the page we are discussing is light Manip not just Ark

And a few things about self sustenance

I’m going to sleep soon so i’ll answer you tomorrow

 

[Deceived3596]

Have we moved past the EE point?

Not that i know of no, i'm waiting for Makai to drop extra context that proves the "destroy" the soul and body statement is more in reference to EE instead of Deconstruction and Soul Manipulation.