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Ninjago Attack Potency update

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The stuff you're saying doesn't make sense and seems to go against standards.

You're saying that two timelines are merging once, and then they're trying to merge again (but not finishing), and then you "close that mergequake" which demerges them?

Two timelines can't merge and then merge again.

If two timelines are currently merging, then halting and reversing that partial process is not tier 2, since it's not a complete merge that's being undone, only a partial one, and such small-scale space-time effects aren't tier 2.
When they merged after the Merge, they did not share the same space, which is why they did not destroy each other. However, since they are very close now, they sometimes try to share the same space (which will eventually lead to the end of the world), which is the reason why Mergequake occurs. If you close the Mergequake, you simply stop Realms from merging each other.
 
Stopping something which is currently active and that will eventually destroy the world is not tier 2. That's stopping a chain reaction.

Aftershock is a reverberation that occurs after an event has finished.
Nothing implies it is a chain reaction. Also aftershock is an aftereffect of a distressing or traumatic event
 
Stopping something which is currently active and that will eventually destroy the world is not tier 2. That's stopping a chain reaction.

Aftershock is a reverberation that occurs after an event has finished.
Also keep in mind that mergequakes are aftershocks of an ORIGINAL Merge, which is stated by Lloyd. It is very similar to real earthquakes: aftershock in earthquake’s case is a smaller earthquake following the main shock of a large earthquake.
 
Stopping something which is currently active and that will eventually destroy the world is not tier 2. That's stopping a chain reaction.

Aftershock is a reverberation that occurs after an event has finished.
Idk why this is still a debate, Qawsef, Meudeus and Finepoint approved Tier 2, I think we should simply close that thread again
 
When they merged after the Merge, they did not share the same space, which is why they did not destroy each other. However, since they are very close now, they sometimes try to share the same space (which will eventually lead to the end of the world), which is the reason why Mergequake occurs. If you close the Mergequake, you simply stop Realms from merging each other.
This is fundamentally incoherent, so I'm going to doubt that the series actually said that until I see evidence of it.
Nothing implies it is a chain reaction. Also aftershock is an aftereffect of a distressing or traumatic event
Also keep in mind that mergequakes are aftershocks of an ORIGINAL Merge, which is stated by Lloyd. It is very similar to real earthquakes: aftershock in earthquake’s case is a smaller earthquake following the main shock of a large earthquake.
Yeah, it happens afterwards. So they were already merged. So it's not an entire merge of two entire timelines being undone, it's relatively minor spatial anomalies, that would not reach tier 2.
Chain reaction to what?
To destroy the timeline.
Idk why this is still a debate, Qawsef, Meudeus and Finepoint approved Tier 2, I think we should simply close that thread again
I disagree, and they haven't acknowledged my arguments. Perhaps they'll read it and come along to my side, or provide better evidence.
 
Stopping something which is currently active and that will eventually destroy the world is not tier 2. That's stopping a chain reaction.

Aftershock is a reverberation that occurs after an event has finished.
it seems you don't understand what Lloyd says. He says they are aftershocks of ORIGINAL Merge, which affected 17 Realms. It is the same as earthquakes work
Large earthquakes occur and do big stuff -> smaller earthquakes ("aftershocks") occur and do smaller stuff. The Large earthquake didn't do the smaller stuff
 
it seems you don't understand what Lloyd says. He says they are aftershocks of ORIGINAL Merge, which affected 17 Realms. It is the same as earthquakes work
Large earthquakes occur and do big stuff -> smaller earthquakes ("aftershocks") occur and do smaller stuff. The Large earthquake didn't do the smaller stuff
Are you trying to say that 17 timelines merged into one, and now two timelines that weren't part of that 17 are risking being merged into one?

Even in that case, the fact that those aftershocks are still having effects which don't involve the instantaneous merge, indicates that it's not instantly brimming with full timeline-merging forces, and so halting that would not require undoing or preventing an entire merge of timelines, placing it unquantifiably lower.
 
Are you trying to say that 17 timelines merged into one, and now two timelines that weren't part of that 17 are risking being merged into one?

Even in that case, the fact that those aftershocks are still having effects which don't involve the instantaneous merge, indicates that it's not instantly brimming with full timeline-merging forces, and so halting that would not require undoing or preventing an entire merge of timelines, placing it unquantifiably lower.
1) 17 Realms merged in a way that they crashed into each other;
2) if left unchecked, Mergequakes destroy the world;
3) they are still merging, merging = significantly affecting, hence preventing them from doing so is significantly affecting too;
4) 5 mods agreed on Tier 2👍
 
1) 17 Realms merged in a way that they crashed into each other;
2) if left unchecked, Mergequakes destroy the world;
3) they are still merging, merging = significantly affecting, hence preventing them from doing so is significantly affecting too;
4) 5 mods agreed on Tier 2👍
  1. Doesn't answer my question.
  2. Irrelevant.
  3. I've explained why "still merging" is insufficient if it's already having effects, such a gradual, cascading process that increases exponentially isn't actually significantly effecting until the last step, so stopping it earlier is only preventing a chain reaction, which is not tier 2.
  4. Surprisingly, mods can disagree with each other.
 
This is fundamentally incoherent, so I'm going to doubt that the series actually said that until I see evidence of it.


Yeah, it happens afterwards. So they were already merged. So it's not an entire merge of two entire timelines being undone, it's relatively minor spatial anomalies, that would not reach tier 2.

To destroy the timeline.

I disagree, and they haven't acknowledged my arguments. Perhaps they'll read it and come along to my side, or provide better evidence.
The Realms aren't sharing the same space after the Merge. After the Merge, they simply expanded the Realm of Ninjago. They were just brought closer to each other. But then the Realms try to occupy a same space, which is what they call "Mergequake".
 
Okay, so stopping the "mergequake" involves moving some timelines further away from each other, but not actually demerging them (since they were never actually merged into the same spatial location in the first place).
 
Okay, so stopping the "mergequake" involves moving some timelines further away from each other, but not actually demerging them (since they were never actually merged into the same spatial location in the first place).
Yes
 
I'd lean towards something like that not qualifying for tier 2, but it is admittedly a weird case.
 
Neutral leaning towards disagree.

If no other staff members come back and bark about it being wrong, this will keep being considered accepted.
 
Heavily disagree with almost all of this.
Star Level Feat - Star Creation
This is based off of one Ninjago creator twitter statement that has been contradicted in the primary canon of the show. I'm tired of going through this with people around the place lol. The person who made that statement has also said this:
image.png
image.png

First off: The weapons never made a star. In Season 3: Rebooted, they explicitly landed on the comet Delta V. Quotes from the show:
image.png

There is never mention of a star in the show. Not one. You may point to the light in the sky after the Golden Weapons were shot into space, but we have no confirmation that it comes from a star. The Golden Weapons together can create blasts of energy and send beams of light into the sky (Battle Between Brothers mini-movie), so that could be what it happening here. Or it was retconned by Season 3, which is the more likely option. Regardless, the only statement regarding the creation of a star comes from one Twitter statement that the creator explicitly says in other tweets isn't canon. This should be disregarded.
Furthermore, it can't scale to anyone. The image above shows that the weapons that 'supposedly' created a star was made of both the Golden Weapons and the Mega Weapon (which is a combination of the Golden Weapons), it's essentially two sets of Golden Weapons. It shouldn't scale to anyone, regardless of if Lloyd has the powers of the Golden Weapons (which i'll get to in a minute). I've seen the response here being that the creator only said the Mega Weapon did it, which is contradicted by all the above images. Garmadon explicitly says the GW and the MW collided and were shot into space. Disregard this point on all accounts, it's wrong. You are picking and choosing tweets from Tommy to support your arguments while ignoring everything else he has said.

Scaling the Ninja to this through Lloyd is weird. Zane touching them explicitly dies and can not hold their power. In Crystalized, the Dragon Form Ninja explicitly say that they do not stand a chance against the Overlord's forces without the Golden Weapons. I won't disagree with scaling Lloyd to it, but he's explicitly been called more powerful than all original 4 Ninja combined in Season 5 and even in the twitter statements have been called '20% stronger'.

Sensei Wu
Simply put, this point is wrong. In the Virtues of Spinjitzu short 'Courage' (), we see the Ninja attack dragons Wu created in his illusion, and they sail through without touching them. They clearly aren't physically there in the sense that Wu created an entire dragon, why would he do this with a star in the sky? They also are not pocket dimensions, they are illusions. This is obvious.

'But they can affect objects physically'

Can either be explained as part of the illusion. Wu clearly didn't create an entire dragon and would have no reason to do so with a star. This is a baffling point.

MergeQuakes
First off, your point about MergeQuakes resulting in destroying the universe is all off. If you watch the season, it's very clearly demonstrated that, left unchecked, the MergeQuakes would increase in frequency until they reach a tipping point and would then destroy the Merged Realms. One MergeQuake doesn't do this. This is explicit in Dragons Rising.

Also, yes, MergeQuakes are a result of Realms trying to share the same area and are cracks in reality, but that does not mean literal two universes are colliding, considering the Ninja can't actually stop the MergeQuakes on their own, and can only prevent it with their powers, it shouldn't scale, and also, I think it should just be hax instead of scaling to attack potency. They aren't preventing the destruction of two Realms by shutting down an individual MergeQuake, that's never stated.

The Merge is a mystical thing that caused Realms to crash together. Regular citizens and children survived the Merge of all 17 Realms. The Merge wasn't an explosion or anything. A MergeQuake storm could destroy the Merged Realms by making them more unstable, but that's just it. A regular Merge doesn't scale to any AP or Durability, so why would an aftershock of it? It's a weird, shaky thing to scale to. I'm admittedly not sure what hax this would fall under, but it feels strange and baffling to scale it to AP when it's clearly something else and something mystical. Regular MergeQuakes aren't destroying two universes, it's as simple as that.

Merged Nya
I'm just- so confused by this point.
image.png

This is the evidence provided by a sea Merge Nya being 42x as strong as Wojira. Now, disregarding the fact that all he said was a number, and the replier had to ask clarification, Tommy says this to every power-level related question, here are a few examples:
image.png

image.png

FMi3rZ1WUAQ24D_.png

It's disingenous and wrong to guage Wojira or Nya's scaling or power level from Tommy's reply. It's clearly not meant to be taken seriously.
 
Also, Scythe of Quakes scaling is really weird. It literally says 'He used it to help form the continents that exist on Ninjago today'

"Help"

The book is clearly referring to the Scythe's part in the FSM using all 4 to create Ninjago. Come on.
 
Heavily disagree with almost all of this.
Star Level Feat - Star Creation
This is based off of one Ninjago creator twitter statement that has been contradicted in the primary canon of the show. I'm tired of going through this with people around the place lol. The person who made that statement has also said this:
image.png
image.png

First off: The weapons never made a star. In Season 3: Rebooted, they explicitly landed on the comet Delta V. Quotes from the show:
image.png

There is never mention of a star in the show. Not one. You may point to the light in the sky after the Golden Weapons were shot into space, but we have no confirmation that it comes from a star. The Golden Weapons together can create blasts of energy and send beams of light into the sky (Battle Between Brothers mini-movie), so that could be what it happening here. Or it was retconned by Season 3, which is the more likely option. Regardless, the only statement regarding the creation of a star comes from one Twitter statement that the creator explicitly says in other tweets isn't canon. This should be disregarded.
Furthermore, it can't scale to anyone. The image above shows that the weapons that 'supposedly' created a star was made of both the Golden Weapons and the Mega Weapon (which is a combination of the Golden Weapons), it's essentially two sets of Golden Weapons. It shouldn't scale to anyone, regardless of if Lloyd has the powers of the Golden Weapons (which i'll get to in a minute). I've seen the response here being that the creator only said the Mega Weapon did it, which is contradicted by all the above images. Garmadon explicitly says the GW and the MW collided and were shot into space. Disregard this point on all accounts, it's wrong. You are picking and choosing tweets from Tommy to support your arguments while ignoring everything else he has said.

Scaling the Ninja to this through Lloyd is weird. Zane touching them explicitly dies and can not hold their power. In Crystalized, the Dragon Form Ninja explicitly say that they do not stand a chance against the Overlord's forces without the Golden Weapons. I won't disagree with scaling Lloyd to it, but he's explicitly been called more powerful than all original 4 Ninja combined in Season 5 and even in the twitter statements have been called '20% stronger'.

Sensei Wu
Simply put, this point is wrong. In the Virtues of Spinjitzu short 'Courage' (), we see the Ninja attack dragons Wu created in his illusion, and they sail through without touching them. They clearly aren't physically there in the sense that Wu created an entire dragon, why would he do this with a star in the sky? They also are not pocket dimensions, they are illusions. This is obvious.

'But they can affect objects physically'

Can either be explained as part of the illusion. Wu clearly didn't create an entire dragon and would have no reason to do so with a star. This is a baffling point.

MergeQuakes
First off, your point about MergeQuakes resulting in destroying the universe is all off. If you watch the season, it's very clearly demonstrated that, left unchecked, the MergeQuakes would increase in frequency until they reach a tipping point and would then destroy the Merged Realms. One MergeQuake doesn't do this. This is explicit in Dragons Rising.

Also, yes, MergeQuakes are a result of Realms trying to share the same area and are cracks in reality, but that does not mean literal two universes are colliding, considering the Ninja can't actually stop the MergeQuakes on their own, and can only prevent it with their powers, it shouldn't scale, and also, I think it should just be hax instead of scaling to attack potency. They aren't preventing the destruction of two Realms by shutting down an individual MergeQuake, that's never stated.

The Merge is a mystical thing that caused Realms to crash together. Regular citizens and children survived the Merge of all 17 Realms. The Merge wasn't an explosion or anything. A MergeQuake storm could destroy the Merged Realms by making them more unstable, but that's just it. A regular Merge doesn't scale to any AP or Durability, so why would an aftershock of it? It's a weird, shaky thing to scale to. I'm admittedly not sure what hax this would fall under, but it feels strange and baffling to scale it to AP when it's clearly something else and something mystical. Regular MergeQuakes aren't destroying two universes, it's as simple as that.

Merged Nya
I'm just- so confused by this point.
image.png

This is the evidence provided by a sea Merge Nya being 42x as strong as Wojira. Now, disregarding the fact that all he said was a number, and the replier had to ask clarification, Tommy says this to every power-level related question, here are a few examples:
image.png

image.png

FMi3rZ1WUAQ24D_.png

It's disingenous and wrong to guage Wojira or Nya's scaling or power level from Tommy's reply. It's clearly not meant to be taken seriously.

The GWs clearly made the Star and it was clearly shown in the show (it litteraly shines at the end of the episode). Bro really watched the show with a blindfold😭
If it was made from both the MW and the GWs, why did the time paradox get fixed (Zane legit said that weapons of equal power can destroy the MW, meaning they were using them in the goal of destroying the MW, not fuse with it. The other tweets are mostly contradicted by the show and if the MW fell the time paradox wouldn't be fixed, and Lloyd would be dead...)? For these reasons alone it cannot be the MW merging with the GWs. Prove the continent scan refers to all the GWs, especially because in the Shurinken scan refer to them creating a whole other region, indicating it wasn't the result of the 4 GWs (The Scythe raised the continents, the Shurinken created the frozen region). We can still scale the Ninjas throught S7 Lloyd, and anyways, Lloyd would still be above them. Zane died from absorbing the Golden Weapons AND Lloyd's Golden Power that Overlord absorbed so irrelevant argument

Preventing the Mergequakes would still scale to the Ninjas, u completly mix- the effect of the Mergequake Storm and a normal Mergequake. Its clearly shown that the mergequakes are litteraly 2 universe colliding, and even earthquakes are caused by this action. The Realms are clearly collinding by trying to share a same space, and the Ninjas are preventing them of colliding with each other (supported by the fact Lloyd stated he's keeping the world from destroying itself and structures crumbling). When the Mergequakes reach a tipping point (when there are multiple of them, they threathen all of reality on a far different and higher scale than a normal Mergequake). In short, normal Mergequake affects 2 Realms, Mergequake storm affects everything

“Ninja can't actually stop the MergeQuakes on their own” “A regular Merge doesn't scale to any AP or Durability, so why would an aftershock of it?” Ye did you watch the actual show or ANY of the scans from this CRT's first message? They didn't stop a Mergequake? Really? A Mergequake doesn't affect the Realms? Seriously? Nobody has enough power to stop the Merge? Really?

Bro tried and failed again, common Zac L
 
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The GWs clearly made the Star and it was clearly shown in the show (it litteraly shines at the end of the episode). Bro really watched the show with a blindfold😭

I've addressed this. You clearly have not read my post thoroughly. Maybe it was supposed to have created a star in Season 2, I don't know the production of the episode. But the fact of the matter is that when Season 3 was made, it was retconned into the GWs landing on the comet. That is a retcon that is incredibly plot relevant (the golden armour returns in Season 10). The retcon is much more important than the star creation, happens afterwards, and is shown in show more. It takes higher priority than a single tweet and a retconned dot in the sky. Sorry if you don't like it. But this is true.

why did the time paradox get fixed (Zane legit said that weapons of equal power can destroy the MW, meaning they were using them in the goal of destroying the MW, not fuse with it. The other tweets are mostly contradicted by the show and if the MW fell the time paradox wouldn't be fixed, and Lloyd would be dead...)? For these reasons alone it cannot be the MW merging with the GWs.

Again, already addressed. Destruction was retconned in Season 3. If you need any more proof of the matter, here's a lego.com description of the Mega Weapon: 'Extremely powerful force for creation made by Lord Garmadon using all four Golden Weapons of Spinjitzu. Garmadon journeyed to the Golden Peaks, the birthplace of the Four Golden Weapons, in order to forge the Mega Weapon. He used it to recreate Destiny’s Bounty as the pirate ship Black Bounty and bring Captain Soto and its crew back to life. He also used it to create evil duplicates of the ninja and to revive the prehistoric Grundle. In his most ambitious effort, Garmadon used the Mega Weapon to send himself back in time so he could stop the ninja team from forming. The ninja of the past sent the Mega Weapon hurtling into space using the power of the Four Golden Weapons.

This, alongside Garmadon's statement, clearly paints the picture that even if the Mega Weapon was supposed to be destroyed in S2's production, they went back on it in Season 3 and made it so instead of being destroyed, the Mega Weapon merged with the Golden Weapons and were shot into deep space. In terms of all the time paradoxes, look, even the creator admits to there being not a lot of logic in that episode.
image.png

Regardless, what happened is clear. MW and GWs collided, and were shot into deep space. Even lego themselves acknowledged this in 2016.

Prove the continent scan refers to all the GWs, especially because in the Shurinken scan refer to them creating a whole other region, indicating it wasn't the result of the 4 GWs (The Scythe raised the continents, the Shurinken created the frozen region).

Well, like, if you read it again? 'He used it to help form the continents that exist on Ninjago today'

The scythe didn't create continents out of its own power. The FSM used all of them to create Ninjago. Ignoring there isn't a northern and southern frozen part of the Ninjago map in show, aside from a single glacier somewhere, the scan obviously implies the FSM used all of them to create Ninjago. The weapons are consistently portrayed as being way more than the sum of their parts, considering you can hold three just fine, but you die when you hold four. If they were each, say, as quarter as strong as the GWs together, as you seem to imply, then why would this be the case?

Zane died from absorbing the Golden Weapons AND Lloyd's Golden Power that Overlord absorbed so irrelevant argument

The Overlord only needed Golden Power to create a body for himself, not the mech, plus they are wearing armour that protects them from Golden Power in that scene. Regardless, he held a part made from the GW and MW, so it's fair enough to disregard anyway, that's my bad.

Preventing the Mergequakes would still scale to the Ninjas, u completly mix- the effect of the Mergequake Storm and a normal Mergequake. Its clearly shown that the mergequakes are litteraly 2 universe colliding, and even earthquakes are caused by this action.

I'm not, but keep telling yourself that. A regular MergeQuake is a rift in reality when two Realms try to share the same area. That's it. They increase in intensity and frequency if left unchecked because of the instability of the Merged Realms, which would lead to a MergeQuake Storm that would destroy the Merged Realms. This is what I said before.
Its clearly shown that the mergequakes are litteraly 2 universe colliding
It's astounding how you can't read your own scans. Let's read them again, shall we? "MergeQuakes are like aftershocks...places where the realms are unstable, trying to share the same area. Like cracks in reality."

Now, again. There is nothing that says literally two universes are colliding in a MergeQuake. Hell, like I said, the original Merge was a mystical event that magically merged them all together. The Realms never physically crashed together, despite what flowery language the Spirit of the Temple may have you believe. It's not a durability feat to survive the Merge because it wasn't physical, not an explosion or a physical collision or anything like that. It's just that, a crack in reality as its warped to merge Realms. That's what it is. A MergeQuake is an aftershock of an event that wasn't physical and didn't physically have any Realms collide to merge. It's the same case here, considering MergeQuakes are literally aftershocks of the Merge. I don't know how I can make this any plainer.

The Realms are clearly collinding by trying to share a same space, and the Ninjas are preventing them of colliding with each other (supported by the fact Lloyd stated he's keeping the world from destroying itself and structures crumbling).

He's keeping the world from destroying itself by shutting down the MergeQuakes that are happening, to prevent them from being unchecked. Lloyd has no idea about the MergeQuake tipping point until Zane tells him about it. He only knows that MergeQuakes are cracks in reality and closes them up, which, yes, would count as preventing the world from destroying itself. I've already addressed the first half of your quote with the whole Merge thing.

“Ninja can't actually stop the MergeQuakes on their own” “A regular Merge doesn't scale to any AP or Durability, so why would an aftershock of it?” Ye did you watch the actual show or ANY of the scans from this CRT's first message? They didn't stop a Mergequake? Really? A Mergquake doesn't affect the Realms? Seriously? Nobody has enough power to stop the Merge? Really?

Good argument. Really, killer point. Anyway, Yes. The Ninja can stop a single MergeQuake with their powers. They cannot stop multiple, or use their own powers to prevent the MergeQuakes from reaching the tipping point, which is what I said in that first quote you didn't bother to actually rebut. I did watch the show, and I did read your post. The Merge is a mystical event, a worldwide hax that displaced everyone randomly, and magically fused the realms together. The MergeQuakes are an aftershock of this. It shouldn't scale to AP or Dura because the regular Merge didn't. It's a mystical event, not physical. I have made this clear. The only way to scale MergeQuakes to physicality is if you argue that regular children should be Low Multi because they survived the original Merge.

They didn't stop a Mergequake? Really? A Mergquake doesn't affect the Realms? Seriously? Nobody has enough power to stop the Merge? Really?


Yes.
I'll ignore the first question since I never said that. I also never said the second. MergeQuakes threaten the Realms if left unchecked, but a single MergeQuake can easily be shut down. And yes, nobody has the power to stop the MergeQuakes. Lloyd needed the power of a Source Dragon to do this, as well as the three Dragon Cores. The Merge wasn't able to be prevented by anyone, and is irreversible. The Dragon Cores prevented the original Merge, artifacts by Source Dragons, who are well above anyone else in power.

Bro tried and failed again, common Zac L

Again, killer argument. Really, ripper of a closing statement. I'm defeated by your genius level comebacks. Clearly, I didn't, since there is no defence for the Nya/Wojira 42 thing, which is why you haven't tried. Clearly didn't fail there! Regardless, it's baffling to me how someone who is clearly a big fan of Ninjago fails to understand it. You are picking and choosing elements of your scenario that help you, rather than the whole picture, the Tommy Andreasen tweets paint this picture clearly. You are letting your own biases for the series get in the way of your VS debating. I love the series too, but all the evidence for this stuff is repeatedly contradicted or does not hold up under scrutiny.

Please, respond if you want. But take a moment to rewatch the show first, you might understand it more.
 
I've addressed this. You clearly have not read my post thoroughly. Maybe it was supposed to have created a star in Season 2, I don't know the production of the episode. But the fact of the matter is that when Season 3 was made, it was retconned into the GWs landing on the comet. That is a retcon that is incredibly plot relevant (the golden armour returns in Season 10). The retcon is much more important than the star creation, happens afterwards, and is shown in show more. It takes higher priority than a single tweet and a retconned dot in the sky. Sorry if you don't like it. But this is true.



Again, already addressed. Destruction was retconned in Season 3. If you need any more proof of the matter, here's a lego.com description of the Mega Weapon: 'Extremely powerful force for creation made by Lord Garmadon using all four Golden Weapons of Spinjitzu. Garmadon journeyed to the Golden Peaks, the birthplace of the Four Golden Weapons, in order to forge the Mega Weapon. He used it to recreate Destiny’s Bounty as the pirate ship Black Bounty and bring Captain Soto and its crew back to life. He also used it to create evil duplicates of the ninja and to revive the prehistoric Grundle. In his most ambitious effort, Garmadon used the Mega Weapon to send himself back in time so he could stop the ninja team from forming. The ninja of the past sent the Mega Weapon hurtling into space using the power of the Four Golden Weapons.

This, alongside Garmadon's statement, clearly paints the picture that even if the Mega Weapon was supposed to be destroyed in S2's production, they went back on it in Season 3 and made it so instead of being destroyed, the Mega Weapon merged with the Golden Weapons and were shot into deep space. In terms of all the time paradoxes, look, even the creator admits to there being not a lot of logic in that episode.
image.png

Regardless, what happened is clear. MW and GWs collided, and were shot into deep space. Even lego themselves acknowledged this in 2016.



Well, like, if you read it again? 'He used it to help form the continents that exist on Ninjago today'

The scythe didn't create continents out of its own power. The FSM used all of them to create Ninjago. Ignoring there isn't a northern and southern frozen part of the Ninjago map in show, aside from a single glacier somewhere, the scan obviously implies the FSM used all of them to create Ninjago. The weapons are consistently portrayed as being way more than the sum of their parts, considering you can hold three just fine, but you die when you hold four. If they were each, say, as quarter as strong as the GWs together, as you seem to imply, then why would this be the case?



The Overlord only needed Golden Power to create a body for himself, not the mech, plus they are wearing armour that protects them from Golden Power in that scene. Regardless, he held a part made from the GW and MW, so it's fair enough to disregard anyway, that's my bad.



I'm not, but keep telling yourself that. A regular MergeQuake is a rift in reality when two Realms try to share the same area. That's it. They increase in intensity and frequency if left unchecked because of the instability of the Merged Realms, which would lead to a MergeQuake Storm that would destroy the Merged Realms. This is what I said before.

It's astounding how you can't read your own scans. Let's read them again, shall we? "MergeQuakes are like aftershocks...places where the realms are unstable, trying to share the same area. Like cracks in reality."

Now, again. There is nothing that says literally two universes are colliding in a MergeQuake. Hell, like I said, the original Merge was a mystical event that magically merged them all together. The Realms never physically crashed together, despite what flowery language the Spirit of the Temple may have you believe. It's not a durability feat to survive the Merge because it wasn't physical, not an explosion or a physical collision or anything like that. It's just that, a crack in reality as its warped to merge Realms. That's what it is. A MergeQuake is an aftershock of an event that wasn't physical and didn't physically have any Realms collide to merge. It's the same case here, considering MergeQuakes are literally aftershocks of the Merge. I don't know how I can make this any plainer.



He's keeping the world from destroying itself by shutting down the MergeQuakes that are happening, to prevent them from being unchecked. Lloyd has no idea about the MergeQuake tipping point until Zane tells him about it. He only knows that MergeQuakes are cracks in reality and closes them up, which, yes, would count as preventing the world from destroying itself. I've already addressed the first half of your quote with the whole Merge thing.



Good argument. Really, killer point. Anyway, Yes. The Ninja can stop a single MergeQuake with their powers. They cannot stop multiple, or use their own powers to prevent the MergeQuakes from reaching the tipping point, which is what I said in that first quote you didn't bother to actually rebut. I did watch the show, and I did read your post. The Merge is a mystical event, a worldwide hax that displaced everyone randomly, and magically fused the realms together. The MergeQuakes are an aftershock of this. It shouldn't scale to AP or Dura because the regular Merge didn't. It's a mystical event, not physical. I have made this clear. The only way to scale MergeQuakes to physicality is if you argue that regular children should be Low Multi because they survived the original Merge.



Yes. I'll ignore the first question since I never said that. I also never said the second. MergeQuakes threaten the Realms if left unchecked, but a single MergeQuake can easily be shut down. And yes, nobody has the power to stop the MergeQuakes. Lloyd needed the power of a Source Dragon to do this, as well as the three Dragon Cores. The Merge wasn't able to be prevented by anyone, and is irreversible. The Dragon Cores prevented the original Merge, artifacts by Source Dragons, who are well above anyone else in power.



Again, killer argument. Really, ripper of a closing statement. I'm defeated by your genius level comebacks. Clearly, I didn't, since there is no defence for the Nya/Wojira 42 thing, which is why you haven't tried. Clearly didn't fail there! Regardless, it's baffling to me how someone who is clearly a big fan of Ninjago fails to understand it. You are picking and choosing elements of your scenario that help you, rather than the whole picture, the Tommy Andreasen tweets paint this picture clearly. You are letting your own biases for the series get in the way of your VS debating. I love the series too, but all the evidence for this stuff is repeatedly contradicted or does not hold up under scrutiny.

Please, respond if you want. But take a moment to rewatch the show first, you might understand it more.
I'll reply later, but first: the GWs destroyed the MW, which made a star and later on fell in the comet, so it doesn't contradict this being a Star level feat, and that scan from Tommy u sent supports the argument.
And for the Merge, it can have a physical effect on the Realm, since they are litteraly moving cuz of it
 
I'll reply later, but first: the GWs destroyed the MW, which made a star and later on fell in the comet, so it doesn't contradict this being a Star level feat, and that scan from Tommy u sent supports the argument.

What? That's just...made up. There isn't a single source for this. What? If we're just going to lie and make shit up, then we can play that game.

And for the Merge, it can have a physical effect on the Realm, since they are litteraly moving cuz of it
No idea what you mean by this but the Merge magically displaced people.
 
I've addressed this. You clearly have not read my post thoroughly. Maybe it was supposed to have created a star in Season 2, I don't know the production of the episode. But the fact of the matter is that when Season 3 was made, it was retconned into the GWs landing on the comet. That is a retcon that is incredibly plot relevant (the golden armour returns in Season 10). The retcon is much more important than the star creation, happens afterwards, and is shown in show more. It takes higher priority than a single tweet and a retconned dot in the sky. Sorry if you don't like it. But this is true.



Again, already addressed. Destruction was retconned in Season 3. If you need any more proof of the matter, here's a lego.com description of the Mega Weapon: 'Extremely powerful force for creation made by Lord Garmadon using all four Golden Weapons of Spinjitzu. Garmadon journeyed to the Golden Peaks, the birthplace of the Four Golden Weapons, in order to forge the Mega Weapon. He used it to recreate Destiny’s Bounty as the pirate ship Black Bounty and bring Captain Soto and its crew back to life. He also used it to create evil duplicates of the ninja and to revive the prehistoric Grundle. In his most ambitious effort, Garmadon used the Mega Weapon to send himself back in time so he could stop the ninja team from forming. The ninja of the past sent the Mega Weapon hurtling into space using the power of the Four Golden Weapons.

This, alongside Garmadon's statement, clearly paints the picture that even if the Mega Weapon was supposed to be destroyed in S2's production, they went back on it in Season 3 and made it so instead of being destroyed, the Mega Weapon merged with the Golden Weapons and were shot into deep space. In terms of all the time paradoxes, look, even the creator admits to there being not a lot of logic in that episode.
image.png

Regardless, what happened is clear. MW and GWs collided, and were shot into deep space. Even lego themselves acknowledged this in 2016.



Well, like, if you read it again? 'He used it to help form the continents that exist on Ninjago today'

The scythe didn't create continents out of its own power. The FSM used all of them to create Ninjago. Ignoring there isn't a northern and southern frozen part of the Ninjago map in show, aside from a single glacier somewhere, the scan obviously implies the FSM used all of them to create Ninjago. The weapons are consistently portrayed as being way more than the sum of their parts, considering you can hold three just fine, but you die when you hold four. If they were each, say, as quarter as strong as the GWs together, as you seem to imply, then why would this be the case?



The Overlord only needed Golden Power to create a body for himself, not the mech, plus they are wearing armour that protects them from Golden Power in that scene. Regardless, he held a part made from the GW and MW, so it's fair enough to disregard anyway, that's my bad.



I'm not, but keep telling yourself that. A regular MergeQuake is a rift in reality when two Realms try to share the same area. That's it. They increase in intensity and frequency if left unchecked because of the instability of the Merged Realms, which would lead to a MergeQuake Storm that would destroy the Merged Realms. This is what I said before.

It's astounding how you can't read your own scans. Let's read them again, shall we? "MergeQuakes are like aftershocks...places where the realms are unstable, trying to share the same area. Like cracks in reality."

Now, again. There is nothing that says literally two universes are colliding in a MergeQuake. Hell, like I said, the original Merge was a mystical event that magically merged them all together. The Realms never physically crashed together, despite what flowery language the Spirit of the Temple may have you believe. It's not a durability feat to survive the Merge because it wasn't physical, not an explosion or a physical collision or anything like that. It's just that, a crack in reality as its warped to merge Realms. That's what it is. A MergeQuake is an aftershock of an event that wasn't physical and didn't physically have any Realms collide to merge. It's the same case here, considering MergeQuakes are literally aftershocks of the Merge. I don't know how I can make this any plainer.



He's keeping the world from destroying itself by shutting down the MergeQuakes that are happening, to prevent them from being unchecked. Lloyd has no idea about the MergeQuake tipping point until Zane tells him about it. He only knows that MergeQuakes are cracks in reality and closes them up, which, yes, would count as preventing the world from destroying itself. I've already addressed the first half of your quote with the whole Merge thing.



Good argument. Really, killer point. Anyway, Yes. The Ninja can stop a single MergeQuake with their powers. They cannot stop multiple, or use their own powers to prevent the MergeQuakes from reaching the tipping point, which is what I said in that first quote you didn't bother to actually rebut. I did watch the show, and I did read your post. The Merge is a mystical event, a worldwide hax that displaced everyone randomly, and magically fused the realms together. The MergeQuakes are an aftershock of this. It shouldn't scale to AP or Dura because the regular Merge didn't. It's a mystical event, not physical. I have made this clear. The only way to scale MergeQuakes to physicality is if you argue that regular children should be Low Multi because they survived the original Merge.



Yes. I'll ignore the first question since I never said that. I also never said the second. MergeQuakes threaten the Realms if left unchecked, but a single MergeQuake can easily be shut down. And yes, nobody has the power to stop the MergeQuakes. Lloyd needed the power of a Source Dragon to do this, as well as the three Dragon Cores. The Merge wasn't able to be prevented by anyone, and is irreversible. The Dragon Cores prevented the original Merge, artifacts by Source Dragons, who are well above anyone else in power.



Again, killer argument. Really, ripper of a closing statement. I'm defeated by your genius level comebacks. Clearly, I didn't, since there is no defence for the Nya/Wojira 42 thing, which is why you haven't tried. Clearly didn't fail there! Regardless, it's baffling to me how someone who is clearly a big fan of Ninjago fails to understand it. You are picking and choosing elements of your scenario that help you, rather than the whole picture, the Tommy Andreasen tweets paint this picture clearly. You are letting your own biases for the series get in the way of your VS debating. I love the series too, but all the evidence for this stuff is repeatedly contradicted or does not hold up under scrutiny.

Please, respond if you want. But take a moment to rewatch the show first, you might understand it more.
Firstly, if it landed onto comet, it doesn’t mean it didn’t create a Star. There is no contradiction. Additionally, they had a very huge amount of time between Season Two and Season Three, so that is not debunking anything. Also, Tommy’s tweet about star thing is posted in 2016, meanwhile Ninjago: Rebooted season was in 2014.

Megaweapon not destroyed creates a huge plot hole, as the Time Travel paradox issue wouldn’t be solved. It is illogical to retcon anything like that. Also, in the official Lego Website, it is said that “The final creation of the Megaweapon is a new light in the sky”. This backs up creation of the star. Also, seeing how much you rely on Garmadon’s statement, you are forgetting the first part. “You used the Golden Weapons to destroy my Megaweapon”. So literally no retcons, besides the one that you made up in your head for 0 reason.

“Prove the continent scan refers to all the GWs, especially because in the Shurinken scan refer to them creating a whole other region, indicating it wasn't the result of the 4 GWs (The Scythe raised the continents, the Shurinken created the frozen region).” You literally ignored this.

Also, Lloyd being more powerful than all of the Ninjas combined doesn’t change the scaling, because they still scale in terms of AP and Durability to that level via tanking the explosion caused by Golden Weapons in Pilots, Cole briefly taking Megaweapon in hands without starting to disappear, etc. Yet Lloyd is still 120% of another Ninja, it doesn’t mean that others are downgraded: he still might win against them via other means.

Merge wasn’t physical?? Then what is Dragons Rising? Lloyd’s dream. Please at least make sense when writing something. Also, this is how it works:
“Two Realms try to share the same space aka merging (this time to an extent that it will actually destroy the world) -> the Mergequake is there”. If someone makes Mergequake closed, it means that he significantly affected both realms. As simple as that. Hence, closing a single Mergequake = Low 2-C feat. I recommend you take a glance at what have previously been discussed under this thread.

Also I have some suspicions that you may believe that we scale anyone (besides the Source Dragons) via the Merge (NOT mergeQUAKE). This is simply not true.

You literally don’t care about that we didn’t apply changes to MWS Nya, right? Or that we went on with the fact that it is rejected by the mods themselves? Yes, you clearly didn’t bother to read the CRT at all; I highly recommend you to do so. The evidence we have given is not contradicted, yours is.

Pretty sure you will either repeat yourself or come up with either weirder scenarios or something like that, but you still can try. Good luck with that, comrade.
 
What? That's just...made up. There isn't a single source for this. What? If we're just going to lie and make shit up, then we can play that game.


No idea what you mean by this but the Merge magically displaced people.
Made up? We visually see the GWs form a star when blowing up the GWs in the sky and the episode zoom in the star it created at the end of the episode...
Lego themselves acknowledge it.
Screenshot_2024-01-16_143822.png

It never created a comet, it only landed on one AFTER making the star
 
What? That's just...made up. There isn't a single source for this. What? If we're just going to lie and make shit up, then we can play that game.


No idea what you mean by this but the Merge magically displaced people.
Check the statement from Garmadon. The statement that YOU are using to “debunk” the verse.
 
I have gone over this multiple times. Season 2 was meant to be the end of Ninjago, so there wasn't meant to be a Season 3. Maybe in Season 2 it was meant to have created a star, but Season 3 retcons this. A star wasn't created. It landed on a comet. It didn't create a comet, I never said this. It landed on the comet. It was retrieved from a comet. It was retconned. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but ignoring that it was retconned is just stubbornness. The Garmadon statement says the Mega Weapon and GWs collided and were shot into space. Never a mention of a star.
 
The scythe didn't create continents out of its own power. The FSM used all of them to create Ninjago. Ignoring there isn't a northern and southern frozen part of the Ninjago map in show, aside from a single glacier somewhere, the scan obviously implies the FSM used all of them to create Ninjago. The weapons are consistently portrayed as being way more than the sum of their parts, considering you can hold three just fine, but you die when you hold four. If they were each, say, as quarter as strong as the GWs together, as you seem to imply, then why would this be the case?
No Ice Region?
latest.png
 
I have gone over this multiple times. Season 2 was meant to be the end of Ninjago, so there wasn't meant to be a Season 3. Maybe in Season 2 it was meant to have created a star, but Season 3 retcons this. A star wasn't created. It landed on a comet. It didn't create a comet, I never said this. It landed on the comet. It was retrieved from a comet. It was retconned. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but ignoring that it was retconned is just stubbornness. The Garmadon statement says the Mega Weapon and GWs collided and were shot into space. Never a mention of a star.
Notice the Star statement was made in 2016 (3 years after S2, 2 years after S3), so it doesn't recton anything
image.png
 
I have gone over this multiple times. Season 2 was meant to be the end of Ninjago, so there wasn't meant to be a Season 3. Maybe in Season 2 it was meant to have created a star, but Season 3 retcons this. A star wasn't created. It landed on a comet. It didn't create a comet, I never said this. It landed on the comet. It was retrieved from a comet. It was retconned. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but ignoring that it was retconned is just stubbornness. The Garmadon statement says the Mega Weapon and GWs collided and were shot into space. Never a mention of a star.
Again, Tommy’s post is literally in 2016, meanwhile Rebooted is in 2014; Garmadon’s statement does not contradict anything but even SUPPORTS our point. Landing on a comet ≠ didn’t create anything; these two actions are completely unrelated. That’s just like saying that if you run, you can’t sing. Two completely unrelated things. Garmadon’s statement says Golden Weapons destroy the Megaweapon. Star was show in Season 2, and was never contradicted (I already debunked your points twice). You also ignored the entire paragraph I wrote to you above. Sorry that the verse “you like” got upgraded. Really-really sorry about that. That should have been such a tragedy for someone who likes the series.
 
He's keeping the world from destroying itself by shutting down the MergeQuakes that are happening, to prevent them from being unchecked. Lloyd has no idea about the MergeQuake tipping point until Zane tells him about it. He only knows that MergeQuakes are cracks in reality and closes them up, which, yes, would count as preventing the world from destroying itself. I've already addressed the first half of your quote with the whole Merge thing.
Kai mentionned that if they didn't stop them, they would eventually destroy the world, so he did known
 
For the love of god, read my message. There's no icy northern or southern parts of Ninjago, aside from a glacier somewhere. I know the Shurikens of Ice are located in an icy place. But it's not to the same extent.

As for Tommy, oh my god, you missed my very first message where Tommy says that the TV show takes precedent over anything else, including his words. If anything contradicts the show, the show's explanation takes priority, as demonstrated in Traveler's Tea being able to access the Departed Realm.

Garmadon’s statement says Golden Weapons destroy the Megaweapon
Did you read it? The Mega Weapon was destroyed, by fusing with the Golden Weapons, being melted down, and shot into space. This can clearly be inferred. Garmadon says destroyed. But we're shown that it's not, an instead in a golden ball on a comet. I'd say melting a weapon down = destroying it.

Wrong Place, Wrong Time is an illogical episode, the creator admits that. Using the time paradoxes means nothing,

Merge wasn’t physical?? Then what is Dragons Rising? Lloyd’s dream. Please at least make sense when writing something. Also, this is how it works:
The Merge was a magical event. Obviously the Realms were combined, but through magical means. What I mean by this is universes didn't literally slam into each other.

You also ignored the entire paragraph I wrote to you above. Sorry that the verse “you like” got upgraded. Really-really sorry about that. That should have been such a tragedy for someone who likes the series.

I missed it since you both decided to jump in. The verse I like got upgraded. Correct. I love Ninjago. One of my favourite series of all time. But I can't agree with these upgrades, as they contradict constantly. They're based on faulty logic, which is where I take issue.
 
To respond to your paragraph, which contain points I have gone over. Even if the Mega Weapon was completely destroyed and only the Golden Weapons were melted down, there's still the issue of the star that is contradicted by the show (which takes priority over everything, including lego.com statements). Even then, saying only the Golden Weapons were involved makes your arguments worse because of Zane's death. Zane was protected from the Overlord's Golden Power due to his armour, and Zane touching the Golden Weapons caused him to die (The Overlord even says this) and your scaling chain is all off. So, which is it? The Golden Weapons being unable to scale to any of them? Or the Mega Weapon being merged with the Golden Weapons?

Also, Lloyd being more powerful than all of the Ninjas combined doesn’t change the scaling, because they still scale in terms of AP and Durability to that level via tanking the explosion caused by Golden Weapons in Pilots, Cole briefly taking Megaweapon in hands without starting to disappear, etc. Yet Lloyd is still 120% of another Ninja, it doesn’t mean that others are downgraded: he still might win against them via other means.

-Small explosion, weapons were only briefly together. In the pilots, it's very clear the Ninja can't hold all of them, as even the main villain and master cannot.
-Cole holding the Mega Weapon was very clearly an animation error.

Megaweapon not destroyed creates a huge plot hole, as the Time Travel paradox issue wouldn’t be solved. It is illogical to retcon anything like that. Also, in the official Lego Website, it is said that “The final creation of the Megaweapon is a new light in the sky”. This backs up creation of the star. Also, seeing how much you rely on Garmadon’s statement, you are forgetting the first part. “You used the Golden Weapons to destroy my Megaweapon”. So literally no retcons, besides the one that you made up in your head for 0 reason.

“Prove the continent scan refers to all the GWs, especially because in the Shurinken scan refer to them creating a whole other region, indicating it wasn't the result of the 4 GWs (The Scythe raised the continents, the Shurinken created the frozen region).” You literally ignored this.

I didn't ignore either of these, I've already addressed all of them.

If someone makes Mergequake closed, it means that he significantly affected both realms. As simple as that. Hence, closing a single Mergequake = Low 2-C feat. I recommend you take a glance at what have previously been discussed under this thread.

Also already been addressed. No, it doesn't. It just meant he closed a crack in reality.

Also I have some suspicions that you may believe that we scale anyone (besides the Source Dragons) via the Merge (NOT mergeQUAKE). This is simply not true.
No. I agree it's not true. Your friend tried to question my argument of people being unable to stop the Merge.


pretty sure you will repeat yourself

I've already addressed all of this, and you respond with the same points. You can't use Tommy. You can't use lego.com, as the show contradicts it (I used it too, so fair enough honestly). As the very core of the star debate, it comes down to Wu looking at a light in the sky, or the Ninja going to the comet itself, and that having a great effect on the plot going forward. My argument jives more with the plot of the episode. No source ever indicates that both the star creation feat and the landing on the comet happened, it's only one or the other, and the star feat was the scenario that was retconned away. Trying to say that both happened is a headcanon that doesn't fit with my or your sources. Let's stick to what we know happens, okay?
 
For the love of god, read my message. There's no icy northern or southern parts of Ninjago, aside from a glacier somewhere. I know the Shurikens of Ice are located in an icy place. But it's not to the same extent.

As for Tommy, oh my god, you missed my very first message where Tommy says that the TV show takes precedent over anything else, including his words. If anything contradicts the show, the show's explanation takes priority, as demonstrated in Traveler's Tea being able to access the Departed Realm.


Did you read it? The Mega Weapon was destroyed, by fusing with the Golden Weapons, being melted down, and shot into space. This can clearly be inferred. Garmadon says destroyed. But we're shown that it's not, an instead in a golden ball on a comet. I'd say melting a weapon down = destroying it.

Wrong Place, Wrong Time is an illogical episode, the creator admits that. Using the time paradoxes means nothing,


The Merge was a magical event. Obviously the Realms were combined, but through magical means. What I mean by this is universes didn't literally slam into each other.



I missed it since you both decided to jump in. The verse I like got upgraded. Correct. I love Ninjago. One of my favourite series of all time. But I can't agree with these upgrades, as they contradict constantly. They're based on faulty logic, which is where I take issue.
And TV show implies nothing to contradict Tommy’s statement regarding to Star. It literally shines in the end of the episode, and it being “shot into space” changes nothing, it was even showed in the Season 2 episode. Also, even if at times that episode may appear illogical, its main significance was the fact that Garmadon no longer has the Megaweapon, and you need to take an account HOW and WHY. Zane states that in order to fix everything, they need to destroy the Megaweapon (aka make it powerless); Garmadon in Season 3 says the same. If Megaweapon did not lose its power, the timeline wouldn’t be fixed. Also we know that melting ≠ destruction, the true destruction of the Megaweapons is seen in the Crystallized, and it is not just “melting”. By that logic, Kai destroyed the Megaweapon and recreated it again? All of this was pointed out previously in the thread by the way, you genuinely just waste our time for the things that have already been discussed. Please bother to read the CRT.

Okay I guess? I don’t really understand what’s the point of “Merge is magical”.

Faulty logic? It is YOU who assumes that one of the main events in the Season 2 has been retconned without creators ever mentioning it, also saying that this made up retcon is above Tommy’s statement + Lego website’s statement, and the entire “retcon” has been debunked already, meanwhile you just keep repeating yourself. Yes, sure, faulty logic.
 
To respond to your paragraph, which contain points I have gone over. Even if the Mega Weapon was completely destroyed and only the Golden Weapons were melted down, there's still the issue of the star that is contradicted by the show (which takes priority over everything, including lego.com statements). Even then, saying only the Golden Weapons were involved makes your arguments worse because of Zane's death. Zane was protected from the Overlord's Golden Power due to his armour, and Zane touching the Golden Weapons caused him to die (The Overlord even says this) and your scaling chain is all off. So, which is it? The Golden Weapons being unable to scale to any of them? Or the Mega Weapon being merged with the Golden Weapons?



-Small explosion, weapons were only briefly together. In the pilots, it's very clear the Ninja can't hold all of them, as even the main villain and master cannot.
-Cole holding the Mega Weapon was very clearly an animation error.





I didn't ignore either of these, I've already addressed all of them.



Also already been addressed. No, it doesn't. It just meant he closed a crack in reality.


No. I agree it's not true. Your friend tried to question my argument of people being unable to stop the Merge.




I've already addressed all of this, and you respond with the same points. You can't use Tommy. You can't use lego.com, as the show contradicts it (I used it too, so fair enough honestly). As the very core of the star debate, it comes down to Wu looking at a light in the sky, or the Ninja going to the comet itself, and that having a great effect on the plot going forward. My argument jives more with the plot of the episode. No source ever indicates that both the star creation feat and the landing on the comet happened, it's only one or the other, and the star feat was the scenario that was retconned away. Trying to say that both happened is a headcanon that doesn't fit with my or your sources. Let's stick to what we know happens, okay?
Firstly, Zane’s feat is a large outlier and makes no sense, pretty much the whole Ninjago community agrees on this. Like, Zane who can’t even do Spinjitzu by himself with half of the heart defeated the literal embodiment of evil who had both 90%+ of Golden Power and the Darkness + Golden Armor. Sure. Also everyone else was already not immune to the Golden Power, because the time was over, which immediately debunks your point. Zane had half of the heart and couldn’t barely do Spinjitzu, of course he would die to the Golden Armor.

Cole holding Megaweapon is now animation error. Firstly made up retcon, now animation error. What’s next? Kai died in Season 1 and the entire series is just his post-life dream? This is straight up stupid. Going against the actual feats and making up the things. I have never seen such a reasoning (I hope I will never see it again).

He closed a crack in reality which is a result of 2?Realms trying to share the same space, aka merging to the point the world is actually gonna be destroyed. If you close the Mergequake, you significantly affect both of them. “Cracks in reality” debunks precisely 0 points of mine.

Pretty sure what he meant is that Ninjas are capable of closing the mergeQUAKE — Kai stating that he did that all by himself, as an example.

Now that’s the faulty reasoning. It can’t be “one way or another” if the events don’t contradict each other. They both are true as stated and shown by canon sources, so they both are counted. By your logic, Nya being unable to breathe underwater and being a girl can’t come together, as they were never stated to be together, which is very, ridiculously stupid. Ninjas flying to the comet to take the GOLDEN WEAPONS makes precisely ZERO contradictions to both Star statement and Season 2 episode. Also, the Golden Weapons destroying the Megaweapon was essential to the very core of that episode’s plot which moved Season 2’s plot drastically, but you just say “duh it’s retconned!!1!!”. There are ZERO things that imply that anything has been retconned from that episode.

Good luck trying to refute that.
 
@Dark-Carioca @GarrixianXD @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint @Qawsedf234 There's been some new arguments, and I'm worried that they're going in circles. Please read from here and see whether it changes your view of the thread as a whole.

@Lloydblitzed I did not agree with everything else in the thread, I literally did not comment on any of it. I'm removing that from the OP, and please be much, much more careful when counting votes in the future. Lying about what people agree with in summaries like that is against the rules. If you're unsure, ask for clarification.
 
Alright, I'm back home and I'm going to post just one more message. Your replies just reek of not reading what I've said.

And TV show implies nothing to contradict Tommy’s statement regarding to Star. It literally shines in the end of the episode, and it being “shot into space” changes nothing, it was even showed in the Season 2 episode. Also, even if at times that episode may appear illogical, its main significance was the fact that Garmadon no longer has the Megaweapon, and you need to take an account HOW and WHY. Zane states that in order to fix everything, they need to destroy the Megaweapon (aka make it powerless); Garmadon in Season 3 says the same. If Megaweapon did not lose its power, the timeline wouldn’t be fixed.
Uh, by virtue of the Golden Weapons landing on a comet, and there being no mention of a star? Kai states in the episode 'The Void' that Delta V is where the weapons landed.
image.png

There's also the issue of the timing. If the Golden Weapons created a star in the night sky, implying that the Golden Weapons were launched extremely far away. The Golden Weapons have only ever created things at close range when wielded by someone, and never across interstellar distances, this is important. However, the trip to the Delta V comet takes less than a day to reach. You can chalk it up to 'Writers Can't Do Math' I suppose, but the Ninja are also able to build a makeshift rocket that manages to make it back to Ninjago in a short time, too. The distances are too short for it to have created a star. This also helps imply the light of the Golden Weapons seen is from perhaps, the light of the weapons first coming into contact, or the comet itself. I don't know for sure. But the timing, distances and Kai's words imply that the Golden Weapons landed on a comet relatively close by. There's your implication that Tommy and Season 2 was contradicted.

Also, don't try and use time paradoxes to support your arguments here. The Golden Weapons of the past were shot into space, implying that the Mega Weapon shouldn't be here in the present, nor should the Golden Weapons. However, not only are Captain Soto's crew still around (implying that the Mega Weapon existed to create them, which couldnt happen if the past GWs were shot into space), but Lloyd is still a teenager and the Destiny's Bounty was still remade. It's all incredibly inconsistent and helps support the illogical nature of the episode.

Okay I guess? I don’t really understand what’s the point of “Merge is magical”.

Okay, let me try and explain this in the clearest terms I can. The Merge and MergeQuakes are intrinsically linked. MergeQuakes are described as aftershocks of the Merge, implying it's still related to the Merge. Dragon Cores were used to prevent the MergeQuakes and stop the storm, like they prevented the original Merge thousands of years ago. All evidence points to them being intrinsically linked and claiming otherwise is ignorant.

Now, to imply that MergeQuakes is the physical collision of two Realms (like a car crash) is to imply that the Merge was the physical collision of seventeen Realms (like a car pile-up). This isn't the case. Again, regular humans and children (like Arin) survived the Merge, and no-one was harmed from it other than being displaced around and transported elsewhere. This is, again, shown in Dragons Rising. To imply that MergeQuakes are physical events like a car crash is to imply that regular Ninjago citizens can survive 17 universes ramming into each other like a car crash. The existence of MergeQuakes in the first place discredits this idea, as to describe the Merge as this would have all the Realms merge whole, not leave parts to share areas later on.

You can dress it up as much as you like, but the bottom line is the Merge and MergeQuakes are obviously two parts of the same whole, and to describe one is to describe another, essentially. The difference being that MergeQuakes would tear apart the Merged Realms if left alone. Considering there is also hundreds of MergeQuakes predicted also discredits the idea of two realms colliding in a single MergeQuake. That's my point about the Merge being magical. It's not like a car crash. It's as if you dragged two PNGs over each other. The Merge and MergeQuakes are mystical events that don't scale to durability or power and to claim it is implies that citizens should be Low Multi, which is absurd. Closing a MergeQuake doesn't prevent two Realms from physically colliding, it's closing a patch in reality using hax.

Firstly, Zane’s feat is a large outlier and makes no sense, pretty much the whole Ninjago community agrees on this. Like, Zane who can’t even do Spinjitzu by himself with half of the heart defeated the literal embodiment of evil who had both 90%+ of Golden Power and the Darkness + Golden Armor. Sure. Also everyone else was already not immune to the Golden Power, because the time was over, which immediately debunks your point. Zane had half of the heart and couldn’t barely do Spinjitzu, of course he would die to the Golden Armor.

Uh, yeah? I wasn't saying Zane defeating the Overlord is not an outlier or even a feat for him in general. I'm saying that if the Mega Weapon was destroyed in your theory, the Golden Weapons alone killed Zane. Even doubling his power wouldn't save him. That's the point. He jumped into the Golden Weapons knowing full well he would die to it and did it for his friends. Plus, as said, the Golden Power was only used to give the Overlord a new body and he used the GWs to make his mech and his armour. When Zane grabs them, The Overlord says "The Golden Weapons are too powerful for you to behold! Your survival chance is zero!"

Cole holding Megaweapon is now animation error. Firstly made up retcon, now animation error. What’s next? Kai died in Season 1 and the entire series is just his post-life dream? This is straight up stupid. Going against the actual feats and making up the things. I have never seen such a reasoning (I hope I will never see it again).

Huh? I have literally never in my life said that Cole holding the Mega Weapon was a retcon. The Ninja are clearly, at least in Seasons 2-3 not strong enough to possess all the four weapons at once. Garmadon says it at the end of Season 1 "Only I may possess the four weapons", the Overlord says that only he is strong enough in season 3, etc. Cole holding the weapon is obviously a mistake. The star being created is what was retconned.

Now that’s the faulty reasoning. It can’t be “one way or another” if the events don’t contradict each other. They both are true as stated and shown by canon sources, so they both are counted. By your logic, Nya being unable to breathe underwater and being a girl can’t come together, as they were never stated to be together, which is very, ridiculously stupid. Ninjas flying to the comet to take the GOLDEN WEAPONS makes precisely ZERO contradictions to both Star statement and Season 2 episode. Also, the Golden Weapons destroying the Megaweapon was essential to the very core of that episode’s plot which moved Season 2’s plot drastically, but you just say “duh it’s retconned!!1!!”. There are ZERO things that imply that anything has been retconned from that episode.

Repeating myself here but yes they can because the timing, Kai's wordings and the plot of the episodes each show that the weapons landed on a comet and couldn't have created a star, they were not nearly far enough away and weren't being wielded by anyone in time to use it. No source has ever claimed both things happen, not officially or on twitter. The GWs being used to destroy the MW was important to the episode, yes, but creating a star wasn't. It's an incosistent feat that isn't supported in anything but an old episode with numerous logical problems, and a tweet the creator has said before to not trust over the show. Meanwhile, collecting the weapons from Delta V causes the Overlord to gain the power to attack Ninjago, which pushes Zane to sacrifice himself, which causes the Ninja to go to Chen's Island, which causes Morro to be unleashed, which causes Clouse to escape the Cursed Realm, etc.

There is visual proof, dialogue, and basic logic all supporting the fact that the Golden Weapons were shot into space and landed on the comet known as Delta V, over one shot of a light in the sky in a previous episode.

I've said my piece and if I reply again I will just be repeating myself for the umpteenth time. I'm not going to state my points again. This is just a feat I disagree with, and hell, it's possible the FSM used the Golden Weapons to create the other Realms mentioned in Dragons Rising, so it's possible this is just a moot point altogether.

Regardless, I'm going to end my statement here. I'll accept any consensus people come to, I just wanted to share my opinion on events.
 
There's been some new arguments, and I'm worried that they're going in circles. Please read from here and see whether it changes your view of the thread as a whole.
It doesn't. The feat isn't a Tier 4 creation feat in my view and the new arguments only reinforces my view on that subject.
 
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