Ninjago Attack Potency update

[Lloydblitzed]

It doesn't. The feat isn't a Tier 4 creation feat in my view and the new arguments only reinforces my view on that subject.

Those new arguments supports our side tho....

 

[Qawsedf234]

Those new arguments supports our side tho....

They still don't convince me.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Repeating myself here but yes they can because the timing, Kai's wordings and the plot of the episodes each show that the weapons landed on a comet and couldn't have created a star, they were not nearly far enough away and weren't being wielded by anyone in time to use it. No source has ever claimed both things happen, not officially or on twitter. The GWs being used to destroy the MW was important to the episode, yes, but creating a star wasn't. It's an incosistent feat that isn't supported in anything but an old episode with numerous logical problems, and a tweet the creator has said before to not trust over the show. Meanwhile, collecting the weapons from Delta V causes the Overlord to gain the power to attack Ninjago, which pushes Zane to sacrifice himself, which causes the Ninja to go to Chen's Island, which causes Morro to be unleashed, which causes Clouse to escape the Cursed Realm, etc.

There is visual proof, dialogue, and basic logic all supporting the fact that the Golden Weapons were shot into space and landed on the comet known as Delta V, over one shot of a light in the sky in a previous episode.

The fact Soto and Lloyd are still teenagers doesn't disaprove anything but reinforce our point lol. The time paradox was created only when Garmadon started to erase Lloyd from existance, and destroying the Mega Weapon stopped Lloyd from not becoming the Green Ninja (which isn't inconsistant at all) and ur tryna tell me the star that spawned when the weapons exploded was a comet?

That's like saying: X character destroy a Universe, but since nobody is talking about it, doesn't count

And the same Tommy said the nature of the MW is chaos which is why it didn't delete the pirates, which further prove the time paradox consistancy (Since it was only affecting Lloyd)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

@Dark-Carioca @GarrixianXD @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint @Qawsedf234 There's been some new arguments, and I'm worried that they're going in circles. Please read from here and see whether it changes your view of the thread as a whole.

@Lloydblitzed I did not agree with everything else in the thread, I literally did not comment on any of it. I'm removing that from the OP, and please be much, much more careful when counting votes in the future. Lying about what people agree with in summaries like that is against the rules. If you're unsure, ask for clarification.

Could u evaluate the rest than?

 

[Zacisawesome101]

That's beyond crazy

hopping back in to say that yk acting like that to someone who just disagrees with you aint gonna convince them and only hurts your argument in the long run
ok im gone again

 

[Lloydblitzed]

hopping back in to say that yk acting like that to someone who just disagrees with you aint gonna convince them and only hurts your argument in the long run
ok im gone again

Meant to reply to @MrUnderlord

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Ninjago thread 7 pages... Holy ****.

That's beyond crazy

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

On second thought, the counterarguments make sense.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

On second thought, the counterarguments make sense.

I'll reply later with a counter argument to those counterarguments

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Alright, I'm back home and I'm going to post just one more message. Your replies just reek of not reading what I've said.


Uh, by virtue of the Golden Weapons landing on a comet, and there being no mention of a star? Kai states in the episode 'The Void' that Delta V is where the weapons landed.

There's also the issue of the timing. If the Golden Weapons created a star in the night sky, implying that the Golden Weapons were launched extremely far away. The Golden Weapons have only ever created things at close range when wielded by someone, and never across interstellar distances, this is important. However, the trip to the Delta V comet takes less than a day to reach. You can chalk it up to 'Writers Can't Do Math' I suppose, but the Ninja are also able to build a makeshift rocket that manages to make it back to Ninjago in a short time, too. The distances are too short for it to have created a star. This also helps imply the light of the Golden Weapons seen is from perhaps, the light of the weapons first coming into contact, or the comet itself. I don't know for sure. But the timing, distances and Kai's words imply that the Golden Weapons landed on a comet relatively close by. There's your implication that Tommy and Season 2 was contradicted.

Also, don't try and use time paradoxes to support your arguments here. The Golden Weapons of the past were shot into space, implying that the Mega Weapon shouldn't be here in the present, nor should the Golden Weapons. However, not only are Captain Soto's crew still around (implying that the Mega Weapon existed to create them, which couldnt happen if the past GWs were shot into space), but Lloyd is still a teenager and the Destiny's Bounty was still remade. It's all incredibly inconsistent and helps support the illogical nature of the episode.



Okay, let me try and explain this in the clearest terms I can. The Merge and MergeQuakes are intrinsically linked. MergeQuakes are described as aftershocks of the Merge, implying it's still related to the Merge. Dragon Cores were used to prevent the MergeQuakes and stop the storm, like they prevented the original Merge thousands of years ago. All evidence points to them being intrinsically linked and claiming otherwise is ignorant.

Now, to imply that MergeQuakes is the physical collision of two Realms (like a car crash) is to imply that the Merge was the physical collision of seventeen Realms (like a car pile-up). This isn't the case. Again, regular humans and children (like Arin) survived the Merge, and no-one was harmed from it other than being displaced around and transported elsewhere. This is, again, shown in Dragons Rising. To imply that MergeQuakes are physical events like a car crash is to imply that regular Ninjago citizens can survive 17 universes ramming into each other like a car crash. The existence of MergeQuakes in the first place discredits this idea, as to describe the Merge as this would have all the Realms merge whole, not leave parts to share areas later on.

You can dress it up as much as you like, but the bottom line is the Merge and MergeQuakes are obviously two parts of the same whole, and to describe one is to describe another, essentially. The difference being that MergeQuakes would tear apart the Merged Realms if left alone. Considering there is also hundreds of MergeQuakes predicted also discredits the idea of two realms colliding in a single MergeQuake. That's my point about the Merge being magical. It's not like a car crash. It's as if you dragged two PNGs over each other. The Merge and MergeQuakes are mystical events that don't scale to durability or power and to claim it is implies that citizens should be Low Multi, which is absurd. Closing a MergeQuake doesn't prevent two Realms from physically colliding, it's closing a patch in reality using hax.



Uh, yeah? I wasn't saying Zane defeating the Overlord is not an outlier or even a feat for him in general. I'm saying that if the Mega Weapon was destroyed in your theory, the Golden Weapons alone killed Zane. Even doubling his power wouldn't save him. That's the point. He jumped into the Golden Weapons knowing full well he would die to it and did it for his friends. Plus, as said, the Golden Power was only used to give the Overlord a new body and he used the GWs to make his mech and his armour. When Zane grabs them, The Overlord says "The Golden Weapons are too powerful for you to behold! Your survival chance is zero!"



Huh? I have literally never in my life said that Cole holding the Mega Weapon was a retcon. The Ninja are clearly, at least in Seasons 2-3 not strong enough to possess all the four weapons at once. Garmadon says it at the end of Season 1 "Only I may possess the four weapons", the Overlord says that only he is strong enough in season 3, etc. Cole holding the weapon is obviously a mistake. The star being created is what was retconned.



Repeating myself here but yes they can because the timing, Kai's wordings and the plot of the episodes each show that the weapons landed on a comet and couldn't have created a star, they were not nearly far enough away and weren't being wielded by anyone in time to use it. No source has ever claimed both things happen, not officially or on twitter. The GWs being used to destroy the MW was important to the episode, yes, but creating a star wasn't. It's an incosistent feat that isn't supported in anything but an old episode with numerous logical problems, and a tweet the creator has said before to not trust over the show. Meanwhile, collecting the weapons from Delta V causes the Overlord to gain the power to attack Ninjago, which pushes Zane to sacrifice himself, which causes the Ninja to go to Chen's Island, which causes Morro to be unleashed, which causes Clouse to escape the Cursed Realm, etc.

There is visual proof, dialogue, and basic logic all supporting the fact that the Golden Weapons were shot into space and landed on the comet known as Delta V, over one shot of a light in the sky in a previous episode.

I've said my piece and if I reply again I will just be repeating myself for the umpteenth time. I'm not going to state my points again. This is just a feat I disagree with, and hell, it's possible the FSM used the Golden Weapons to create the other Realms mentioned in Dragons Rising, so it's possible this is just a moot point altogether.

Regardless, I'm going to end my statement here. I'll accept any consensus people come to, I just wanted to share my opinion on events.

Said the one who didn’t even bother to read the CRT previous pages and just keeps repeating himself. But sure, I’ll check your scribbling.

If there is no mention in the show, it does not mean it is false. “Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence”, you know? The Star was created, and what happened to it is unknown. The Golden Weapons landing on the comet does not contradict the creation of star in any means. You simply conclude inconclusive. Also keep in mind that the huge amount of time passed from Season 2 to Season 3.

Tommy confirmed that not everything was erased ( @Lloydblitzed gave the scan); however, the main thing must have been happened — the Megaweapon was destroyed. Otherwise, Ninjas wouldn’t fix the timeline.

I said that you yapped about “Star retcon”, and now claim “Animation error”. Garmadon is just being cocky by the way. He is not ALWAYS right; in March of Oni, his plan literally did not work, and he himself was shocked. And here, he supposed Ninjas wouldn’t handle Megaweapon, although they already showed it by feats. Obviously weak characters such as Nindroids and Pirates would be unable to wield the power of all four weapons: however, Ninjas are not as weak as the ones mentioned above. Also remember that to wield all of the Golden Weapons you need four hands AND ability to wield their power, but four hands thing does not imply to the Megaweapon. Ninjas were shown to tank the explosion from four Golden Weapons combined by the end of pilots, and also Cole touched the Megaweapon too. “Animation error” twice.

Why do you assume that the star was created near Golden Weapons?.. Also, Twitter’s statement, lego website and the episode itself support the creation of star. Prove that Star was stated to be near Golden Weapons. You assume things that have never been implied.

There is visual proof, creator’s statement and lego website’s statement of star being there — and you have zero proofs of star being implied to be created near Golden Weapons
.

The FSM and Golden Weapons is another big topic which was irrelevant here, but if you want, we can discuss it too (although I don’t really understand what you want to prove via that). Assuming things that were never implied won’t help your point, Zac.

Your opinion is based on misinterpretation, false assumption and just ignorance.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Repeating myself here but yes they can because the timing, Kai's wordings and the plot of the episodes each show that the weapons landed on a comet and couldn't have created a star, they were not nearly far enough away and weren't being wielded by anyone in time to use it. No source has ever claimed both things happen, not officially or on twitter. The GWs being used to destroy the MW was important to the episode, yes, but creating a star wasn't. It's an incosistent feat that isn't supported in anything but an old episode with numerous logical problems, and a tweet the creator has said before to not trust over the show. Meanwhile, collecting the weapons from Delta V causes the Overlord to gain the power to attack Ninjago, which pushes Zane to sacrifice himself, which causes the Ninja to go to Chen's Island, which causes Morro to be unleashed, which causes Clouse to escape the Cursed Realm, etc.

There is visual proof, dialogue, and basic logic all supporting the fact that the Golden Weapons were shot into space and landed on the comet known as Delta V, over one shot of a light in the sky in a previous episode.

Ye we clearly saw a star spawning (I even slowed down the clips so everyone can see a new star spawned) after that explosion. We clearly see them zoom on the star (who still exists in the present , supported by Tommy himself) and as I showed earlier, the MW only cancelled out some events because of its nature.
Heck the star even glows with gold. They simply made a star and then landed on the comet (most logical explanation tbh). What Garmadon said does not contradict in any way the fact a Star was made, and the episode clearly showcase it. Because the show didn't mention it does not matter at all when it was visually shown (Tbh idk how does new argument supports ur view @Qawsedf234, but you do you )

Let's not forget this other statement supporting a star was made (made in 2016, 2 years AFTER Rebooted)

I'll debunk the Mergequake part later

 

[Agnaa]

Could u evaluate the rest than?

No, sorry, I don't have time to dig through all this stuff.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

No, sorry, I don't have time to dig through all this stuff.

Rip

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Ye we clearly saw a star spawning (I even slowed down the clips so everyone can see a new star spawned) after that explosion. We clearly see them zoom on the star (who still exists in the present , supported by Tommy himself) and as I showed earlier, the MW only cancelled out some events because of its nature.
Heck the star even glows with gold. They simply made a star and then landed on the comet (most logical explanation tbh). What Garmadon said does not contradict in any way the fact a Star was made, and the episode clearly showcase it. Because the show didn't mention it does not matter at all when it was visually shown (Tbh idk how does new argument supports ur view @Qawsedf234, but you do you )

I'll debunk the Mergequake part later

@DarkDragonMedeus What do you think of this now?

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Okay, let me try and explain this in the clearest terms I can. The Merge and MergeQuakes are intrinsically linked. MergeQuakes are described as aftershocks of the Merge, implying it's still related to the Merge. Dragon Cores were used to prevent the MergeQuakes and stop the storm, like they prevented the original Merge thousands of years ago. All evidence points to them being intrinsically linked and claiming otherwise is ignorant.

Now, to imply that MergeQuakes is the physical collision of two Realms (like a car crash) is to imply that the Merge was the physical collision of seventeen Realms (like a car pile-up). This isn't the case. Again, regular humans and children (like Arin) survived the Merge, and no-one was harmed from it other than being displaced around and transported elsewhere. This is, again, shown in Dragons Rising. To imply that MergeQuakes are physical events like a car crash is to imply that regular Ninjago citizens can survive 17 universes ramming into each other like a car crash. The existence of MergeQuakes in the first place discredits this idea, as to describe the Merge as this would have all the Realms merge whole, not leave parts to share areas later on.

You can dress it up as much as you like, but the bottom line is the Merge and MergeQuakes are obviously two parts of the same whole, and to describe one is to describe another, essentially. The difference being that MergeQuakes would tear apart the Merged Realms if left alone. Considering there is also hundreds of MergeQuakes predicted also discredits the idea of two realms colliding in a single MergeQuake. That's my point about the Merge being magical. It's not like a car crash. It's as if you dragged two PNGs over each other. The Merge and MergeQuakes are mystical events that don't scale to durability or power and to claim it is implies that citizens should be Low Multi, which is absurd. Closing a MergeQuake doesn't prevent two Realms from physically colliding, it's closing a patch in reality using hax

The very fact the Merge isn't on the same scale as MergeQuake + the fact the Realms are trying to share a same space obliderates this argument completly (litteraly means they are physically moving lmao). The Realms are directly affected. I don't think u notice the difference between Mergequakes, Mergequake Storm and the Merge, just because they are linked ≠ doing the same thing or having the same effects. Just because the citizens survived the Realms being rammed togheter doesn't mean the event is non physical, a perfect example of this is the MCU citizens of each timelines not being affected by Loki pulling up their entire universe. He physically moved them, yet citizens weren't affected. Simply the fact that the citizens survived the Merge was an Outlier (in fact, by that logic, affecting or moving Universes doesn't scale to Uni bc its inhabitants weren't affected). By stopping a mergequake, its like ur pulling 2 Realms away from each other to prevent them from sharing a same space, thus you are affecting the 2 Realms by doing so

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Because there's an important aspect: Relevant size.

A 5th Dimensional axis can separate even an infinite amount of 4D spaces without itself being of infinite size, because all the 4D spaces would need is a vaguely different 5th spatial dimension. Or in other words:

• (∞, ∞, ∞, ∞, 1.0000x)
• (∞, ∞, ∞, ∞, 1.0001x)
• (∞, ∞, ∞, ∞, 1.0002x)
• (∞, ∞, ∞, ∞, 1.0003x)
• etc

To be 5D you have to prove the 4D spaces embeds an infinitely small point, which hasn't been proven.

For the thread we already accept Tier 2 so I guess that's fine, but Tier 4 you would need to prove that they have some form of UES since that's a creation feat and wouldn't strictly scale to AP on its own.

Welp now that the show writer confirmed that Dreamzzz is connected to Ninjago and they view it as fiction, the verse's cosmology would Low 1-C, and the characters from Dreamzz would scale to that as they fit the critera of Reality Fiction Transcendence

They legit view Ninjago as a TV show and can pause it at will

 

[Agnaa]

That really just reads like a typical reference between works.

Writers will often have other works of theirs be referenced as pieces of fiction within other works. That doesn't mean that every single character from the work that's doing the referencing is a tier 1, capable of warping/creating that piece being referenced.

EDIT: And, if we do take it as an actual R>F difference, that doesn't necessarily mean they'd be tier 1, it could mean that Ninjago's tier 11.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

That really just reads like a typical reference between works.

Writers will often have other works of theirs be referenced as pieces of fiction within other works. That doesn't mean that every single character from the work that's doing the referencing is a tier 1, capable of warping/creating that piece being referenced.

EDIT: And, if we do take it as an actual R>F difference, that doesn't necessarily mean they'd be tier 1, it could mean that Ninjago's tier 11.

Ninjago is for sure not Tier 11 tho

 

[Qawsedf234]

Welp now that the show writer confirmed that Dreamzzz is connected to Ninjago and they view it as fiction, the verse's cosmology would Low 1-C,

It can't be used, as you asked a leading question for the sake of an upgrade which is against official policy.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It can't be used, as you asked a leading question for the sake of an upgrade which is against official policy.

It could, because anyways, its shown in the Dreamzzz show (Basically the second picture)

 

[Sparkive]

1 It is against the rules to ask the creators things in order to make upgrades/downgrades to the verse
2.- The question asked can also be understood as how most franchises of this type handle it: in the continuity of Dreamzzz, Ninjago is fiction (which as far as I understand, all Lego audiovisual products are considered fiction in Dreamzzz ), in the Ninjago continuity, Dreamzzz does not exist

An example of this is the Nickelodeon live action series.
Game Shakers shares continuity with Henry Danger, the Thunderman, the Ghost family series whose name I can't remember, among others.
Several have shown that in their continuity Drake & Josh is a popular series for them (I think also iCarly, and therefore Victorius too)
At the same time, in the Ricky, Nicky, Dicky and Dawn movie, we are shown that The Thundermans is a TV series and that's it.
Are we a cosmology of several higher dimensions? No, simply in each respective continuity they use series previously created by Nick as series, and that's it.

Unless you demonstrate that for Ninjago, Dreamzzz is canon, we are simply faced with a case of different continuities where one has a version of the other as fiction.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

1 It is against the rules to ask the creators things in order to make upgrades/downgrades to the verse
2.- The question asked can also be understood as how most franchises of this type handle it: in the continuity of Dreamzzz, Ninjago is fiction (which as far as I understand, all Lego audiovisual products are considered fiction in Dreamzzz ), in the Ninjago continuity, Dreamzzz does not exist

An example of this is the Nickelodeon live action series.
Game Shakers shares continuity with Henry Danger, the Thunderman, the Ghost family series whose name I can't remember, among others.
Several have shown that in their continuity Drake & Josh is a popular series for them (I think also iCarly, and therefore Victorius too)
At the same time, in the Ricky, Nicky, Dicky and Dawn movie, we are shown that The Thundermans is a TV series and that's it.
Are we a cosmology of several higher dimensions? No, simply in each respective continuity they use series previously created by Nick as series, and that's it.

Unless you demonstrate that for Ninjago, Dreamzzz is canon, we are simply faced with a case of different continuities where one has a version of the other as fiction.

1.The second pic litteraly shows what the creators answered to the guy
2. Its just a similar case to the 3rd one here, but in the form of a TV show

3. I don't need to prove that Dreamzzz is canon for the Ninjago World, as they are unaware that they represent a mere piece of fiction to the Dreamzzz world (Its DEFENETLY not like the Dreamzzz character can imagine and transport the Ninjas to their Dream World, which can have consequence in their real life). With ur logic, Reality-Fiction Transcendence isn't possible for any verse. How would in the world is the "fiction" supposed to be aware that they are mere fictional beings to their superiors?

Tho @Agnaa may be right with her explanation, this isn't a pretty good counter argument mate

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

The very fact the Merge isn't on the same scale as MergeQuake + the fact the Realms are trying to share a same space obliderates this argument completly. The Realms are directly affected. I don't think u notice the difference between Mergequakes, Mergequake Storm and the Merge, just because they are linked ≠ doing the same thing or having the same effects. Just because the citizens survived the Realms being rammed togheter doesn't mean the event is non physical, a perfect example of this is the MCU citizens of each timelines not being affected by Loki pulling up their entire universe. He physically moved them, yet citizens weren't affected. Simply Outliers

True, also I will add to that that Mergequake leads to the destruction of the world unlike the Merge. Either way the Merge storm thing does not refute the fact that Mergequake occurs when two Realms try to share the same space, which will lead to the destruction of the world (unlike the Merge storm), so closing Mergequake is a Universal+ feat (you can argue it is very low end of Low Multi feat).

 

[Qawsedf234]

1.The second pic litteraly shows what the creators answered to the guy

You're missing the point with their response. The question you asked, or someone with your name asked, is a leading question used for a upgrade. It's against the rules to use such questions for any upgrade as its badgering authors/writers on social media.

It's fruit from a poisoned tree. It can't be used on the site.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You're missing the point with their response. The question you asked, or someone with your name asked, is a leading question used for a upgrade. It's against the rules to use such questions for any upgrade as its badgering authors/writers on social media.

It's fruit from a poisoned tree. It can't be used on the site.

Ok, but even without taking his response in consideration, wouldn't it still qualify?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Ok, but even without taking his response in consideration, wouldn't it still qualify?

You'd need to prove that Ninjago actually exists as a real thing in that universe that viewed as a fictional TV show rather than just a fictional TV show that people watch in that universe.

So on its own it wouldn't be Low 1-C.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You'd need to prove that Ninjago actually exists as a real thing in that universe that viewed as a fictional TV show rather than just a fictional TV show that people watch in that universe.

So on its own it wouldn't be Low 1-C.

Ninjago verse actually exist within the Dreamzzz character's Dream World, which they can acess while sleeping but could have consequence and affect the real world

 

[Qawsedf234]

which they can acess while sleeping but could have consequence and affect the real world

If they can affect the real world then it's not R>F.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If they can affect the real world then it's not R>F.

The Ninjago character never affected the real world, only some specific character from the real world can do it

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If they can affect the real world then it's not R>F.

Nah, what I meant is that specific characters from the real world (called the "Waking World" in Dreamzzz) can go in the Dream World and bring fiction to the Waking World, so the fictions themselves technically cannot directly affected the real world unless people from the Waking World transport them to their world and make them "real"

 

[Lloydblitzed]

That really just reads like a typical reference between works.

Writers will often have other works of theirs be referenced as pieces of fiction within other works. That doesn't mean that every single character from the work that's doing the referencing is a tier 1, capable of warping/creating that piece being referenced.

EDIT: And, if we do take it as an actual R>F difference, that doesn't necessarily mean they'd be tier 1, it could mean that Ninjago's tier 11.

Oh btw, they can wrap the piece being reference, as in the Ninjago x Crossover, one of the Dreamzzz characters changed Kai's powers to wind

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Nah, what I meant is that specific characters from the real world (called the "Waking World" in Dreamzzz) can go in the Dream World and bring fiction to the Waking World, so the fictions themselves technically cannot directly affected the real world unless people from the Waking World transport them to their world and make them "real"

So would it work ? @Qawsedf234

 

[MrVenomYTX]

DISCLAMER: Althought this CRT seems very big, its actually very simple (plz don't get discouraged)

Ok so many characters in the Ninjago (all have them) have been really ditched in terms of Attack Potency, Strength and Durability (the WHOLE VERSE IS DEPENDENT ON ONE MORRO FEAT) and there are some feats that massively upscales the Ninjas
I'll make another CRT for Strength and Durability tho

Attack Potency:

Ok so I'll seperate it this section in 2 parts here bc Dragon Rising really affects their AP

• Dragon Rising (Specifically for Kai, Zane, Lloyd and Nya)

So in Dragon Rising, Kai and Lloyd were able to close a Mergequake (Kai did it offscreen here and Lloyd did it many times like in here) which is basically an AP feat right here.
A Mergequake is an aftermath of the Merge (which, in short, merged all the Realms togheter) where 2 entire Realms tries to share the same space

Supported by this statement too
But that's not it!

Mergequakes have been stated multiple times to be able to affect the realms and even destroy them (Context: The world is clearly referring to the Merged Realms)
This means that a single Mergequake affects 2 Universal+ sized Realms and cause them to try and share a same space, thus closing one should give Kai and Lloyd (Post Power Drain form) Universal+ Attack Potency, as they are stopping 2 Universal+ sized realms to collide with each other.

"But how are the Realms Universal+ sized"


The Realm of Ninjago is referred as a dimension

The Ninjago Realm contains a Space Time

As well as being infinite in size via this statement from Way of the Departed (Source: Way Of Departed Chapter 9, from Twitter)

Way Of Departed can be considered canon via these tweets

(Sources: First tweet | Second Tweet)

All Realms are equal in size via this statement from the Cloud Kingdom, which means the previous scans applies to all the other Realms

This is overall is acceptable by VSBW's standarts: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Universe#Universe-sized_Realms_Guidelines

• If the size of the realms described has having infinite sizes or other synonyms, that should strongly indicate them being universes.
• If there is shown to be a collection of multiple alternate worlds/dimensions that are either stated to be parallel and/or there are visual depictions resembling each of those worlds/dimensions to be metaphorically similar to each other (Such as bubbles or other structures that appear similar in size), and most importantly, at least one of those individual worlds/dimensions has shown enough evidence to consider them a Universe level+ sized spacetime continuum, then the conclusion is to consider all of those individual worlds/dimensions universes and that the entire collection is a multiverse.

Now back to Attack Potency, Kai closing a mergequake would also scale to Nya and Zane's AP. Here is why:

Nya was able to knock away and harm the Earth Dragons here, who tanked a fire blast from Kai. This would scale Nya's AP to Universal+ too
Zane was able to neutralize and overpower Kai's fire in this clip , giving him Universal+ Attack Potency too

P.S: U could argue Cole has Universal+ AP too since he could one shot Sora who is comparable to Nya

I also think we should add a seperate key for their Dragon Rising selves within their profiles to avoid some confusions in the website (More specifically, for Cole, Lloyd, Kai, Zane and Nya)

• Pre Dragon Rising (For Jay, Cole and everyone else except Overlord and FSM who has feats before Dragon Rising)

In the pilots episodes, the Ninjas were all able to tank an explosion from the 4 Golden Weapons. The 4 Golden Weapons were shown to be able to create a star in space.
"B-but this was 8 weapons not 4"
It was stated that a set of 4 golden weapons were needed to destroy the other set of 4 golden weapons since they had equal power. Thismeans that they did not fuse and it would also mean that a set of 4 golden weapons would scale to Star

This feat should scale to the Ninjas Attack Potency via:
Jay's lightning harming the Ninjas
Cole overpowering and harming Jay
Nya harming and overpowering Jay
Kai equalizing with Jay's lightning

Lloyd would also scale to the weapons by fightning on par with Reborn Garmadon who is stronger then his past self who tanked an explosion from the 4 Golden Weapons and can wisthand their power too


"B-but that makes no sense, OUTLIERRRR!!"
Well suprise suprise....we got other ways to get the Ninja's AP to Star:

As we know it, Lloyd was able to fight off Garmadon, who already scale to the Golden Weapons, which made a star
Lloyd should scale to the 4 Golden Weapons, as stated here that he have the powers of the 4 Golden Weapons, and this even before he obtained the Ninja's true potential at the Temple of Light. This Season 11 scan also supports that he can still use all the main 4 powers (in the form of energy ofc)
Its also to not he did not loose that power after he gave the Ninjas their powers back, but only gave back the rest of his GOLDEN POWER

And Lloyd can still harness the main elemental powers like Zane said via these statements (Keep in mind this statement was made after Seabound)

He is also the only one STRONG ENOUGH to fight S8 Garmadon, supporting my arguments even more, and indicating that Lloyd would still scale to the Golden Weapons via Garmadon

So with all this, we can confidently say Post Power Drain Lloyd is Star
"Ok that's cool, but why would it scale to the other ninjas?" Well the answer is pretty simple (its not)

Grief-Bringer could wisthand a full blast from Lloyd back in S13 before eventually getting destroyed (he still regenerated afterwards anyways)
This feat would scale to all the Ninjas (specifically Cole and Jay here) since:

Cole could harm Kalmaar, who can harm Kai, who tanked an hit from Grief-Bringer
Jay could harm Kai, who tanked an hit from Grief-Bringer

P.S: the reason Jay isn't getting any Universal+ scaling or stuff is because he has no feats in Dragon Rising at the moment

We could also apply the Star rating to the villains as they can all fight off and harm the Ninjas. Additionally, I think we should add the Ice Emperor form to Zane's profile (he easly scale off Lloyd) and the Spinjitzu Burst form to Cole (Would scale to Lloyd too via Vangelis scaling off to Lloyd who scale to Grief - Bringer)

FSM AND OVERLORD
Ok so the FSM and Overlord page should be massively updated via some feats.
In Dragon Rising it was revealed The First Spinjitzu Master created multiples Realms which is an easy 2-C for FSM


This would scale to the Overlord's Golden Master form too as he absorbed 90% of Ultimate Spinjitzu Master Lloyd's power (who are obviously comparable to the FSM and he was also stated to be above his Dragon Form), to Overlord's Dragon Form (as he could fight USM Lloyd) and Crystal King (As he stated he acheived the "perfect vessel")

Oni Lloyd
Lloyd should get a seperate key for his Oni form since he could harm down the Crystal King, which would put him at 2-C

Wojira and Merged with Sea Nya:
I think we should add a profile for Wojira and add a Merged with Sea key for Nya. Wojira is capable of flooding the entire planet in water (She used to rule over the world using it), which should put her at least Country Level. (via this calc) She would even scale higher since she created and lifted the Moon (offscreen) as said in Way of Departed (Class Z Lifting Strength feat btw)

This would put Wojira to at least Moon Level, and up to Star Level, since she could fight reletive to Nya, who at the time scaled to Star (due to reasons explained above) . Its also stated by the author that Nya in her Merged with Sea Form is 42x stronger then Wojira

This would put Merged with Sea Nya to Large Star Level

Comic Garmadon + Moon Tea Multiplier
Ok so I think we should add a seperate key for Comic Garmadon in the Lord Garmadon profile. In the Garmadon Comics (which are canon), Garmadon was able to one shot Mogra, who already drank 5 Moon Tea by then

A single Moon Tea cup has a x10 multiplier
The Moon Tea is also shown to consistanly boost the user's powers, making this multiplier valid and consistant
"B-but Mogra is not a ghost, Djinn, Oni or Dragon, its inconsistant"
The x10 amp scan specified that the amp works on OTHERWORDLY creature, meaning Mogra is not human, bc its even said the multiplier doesn't work on humans but it did on Mogra

So: 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 x 10 = 100 000x
This would make Comics Garmadon 100 000 times stronger then his Reborn Form (more precisely his S8 self before his power peak who scale to Star because of the Golden Weapons), putting his AP to Solar System Level

Reborn Garmadon
Reborn Garmadon should be upgraded to 4-C (via the arguments for the Golden Weapons) at base and up to 2-C at his peak (Emperor Garmadon states he could battle back entire Oni Army, who can cover all the Realms in darkness and destroy everything. He couldn't do it in S10 because he was far weakened and lost that power)

Sensei Wu
In Virtues of Spinjitzu, which can be considered canon via the fact the events does not contradict canon and takes place between The Island and Seabound, Sensei Wu could create a pocket dimension containing a Sun and obviously an Earth like planet (which according to the reference for common feats, is a 4-C feat, and would scale to Wu and to the Ninjas due to being reletive to him).

"Ok, but with what evidence?"

• Wu clearly explained here that he designed each places to train the ninjas
• The places does not already exist, as the Ice Emperor's castle was turned back to normal in Season 11 and the Re-Awakened were all already defeated and killed by Cole in Season 13
• Wu explains that reality is all in one's perspective, indicating that he created those realities

This would get Wu's Attack Potency to Star Level, but u can still scale him off the 4 Golden Weapons since he tanked them

Source Dragon
I think we should add a Source Dragon profile (since they are OP as hell new characters) to the website. The Source Dragons are stronger then the First Spinjitzu Master (explained here) since he required their assistance to stop the Merge, which affected the entire cosmology of Ninjago, including the Ethereal divide, which basically represent the space between the Realms. They would be baseline Low Multiversal, but we could argue them being Low Complex Multiversal, since the Ethereal Divide represent the space between the Realms, who as we remember from earlier, are Universal+ and is used to travel between the Realms, meaning it has to be a Higher Dimensional Space (as it follows these VSBW standarts ), putting the Source Dragons at Low 1-C and at least 2-C. (Tho Low 1-C is a bit high balled, so 2-C would fit bettah)
P.S: We should add a new key in Lloyd's profile for Source Dragon Power Lloyd, since he obtained this new form by gaining all the Source Dragon's powers in Dragon Rising Episode 20

Just in case
A very very very mad lowball for the Ninjas would scale them to Continental Level via this scan which scale the Scythe of Quake to continental (since the ninjas can spar with each other with the weapons, it scales to them)
Using this scale, this would scale Comic Garmadon to Moon Level

Laslty, I think we should add a profile for: Aspheera, Sora, Arin, Vangelis, Acronix, Krux, Kalmaar, Wojira, Unagami, Omega, Wyldfyre, Mr E and Beatrix based of the new infos from this CRT

Conclusion:

• Lloyd should have new keys (Dragon Rising, Oni Form and Source Dragon Power) where his Dragon Rising form is Low 2-C and the Source Dragon power one is at least 2-C (possibly Low 1-C)
• Garmadon should get new keys (Comics Garmadon) which should get an upgrade to 4-A
• Cole and Jay should be upgraded to 4-C
• Source Dragon, Aspheera, Sora, Arin, Vangelis, Acronix, Krux, Kalmaar, Wojira, Unagami, Omega, Wyldfyre, Mr E and Beatrix should all get a profile of their own using the infos discussed in the CRT
• Nya, Kai and Zane should be upgraded to Universal+
• Post Power Drain Lloyd should be upgraded to 4-C
• Wu should get upgraded to 4-C via the new Star level feats from the Ninjas
• Reborn Garmadon should be upgraded to 4-C, with specification he could go up to 2-C with his full powers

Agree: @LifeRiderthe1 @MrUnderlord (agree with everything except Low 1-C Source Dragon) @Dark-Carioca @Dinoanime7 @Starbrand_Fan (Agrees with everything except Low 1-C Source Dragon) @MKF4 (Only disagree with Low 1-C Source Dragon) @GarrixianXD @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint (Agrees with Tier 4 and Tier 2. Neutral on Low 1-C stuff) @TheOrangeGuy09
Neutral: @Grand_Astartes @Qawsedf234 (Agrees with the Tier 2 part, disagree with the Tier 4 stuff) @Agnaa (On Mergequake part, hasn't evaluated anything else)
Disagree: @Alus83 @Jirachi_the_real_93 @Minaaaa

 

[MrVenomYTX]

1. is weird to say the Merge was not just some Uni level + event. it was effecting all the realms which still existed and forcing them into one space and coexisting, and forcing the separate space-time continuums of those realms to break reality itself this is just baseline Low multi you are effecting to 4D realms here if anything it be 2 times Uni level + and the merge itself is effecting all the remaining realms so it be # said amount into Low multi.

2. i mean idk what you mean here. they were legit forcing two separate realms to coexist in the same space-time continuum that should be enough for low multi.

3. Can you prove they did it via hax? and what i mean is spatial hax is super weird to say considering the merge was cracking the very fabric of space-time across all realms and merging it into are current new bigger realm

4. thats fine, Dimension can mean a lot of things besides "universe" but it has its own time-space which should natively be 4D by the Universal model we use.

5. flowery languages idea doesn't defeat the statement though (at least in my opinion). just say the universe is unquantifiable? which would go for the divide to its a unquantifiable sized realm. (but i do see where you are coming from)

6. i mean each realm is its own universal body and cloud kingdom controls all of ninjago besides certain characters anyways? So it having a time space like we know the extra dimensional statement isn't all that useful but it can showcase these are normal realms and we can even go further to say time encompasses even the divide which give the realms are already natively 4D this would make the timeline 5D or at the very least insignificant 5D. (which we should have a separate CRT for 5D idea)

7. thats not how it works The ethereal divide is encompassing the entire container of all the realms and the dragon cores were used as walls to separate them. Which goes to my next point give the realms are time-spaces even if you said they are the same the ethereal divide would still be encompassing those time-spaces meaning we have a 5D container holding the divide or at the very least a insignificant 5D axis timeline for ninjago if you look at it like that. it would still be holding the time-space of ninjago post merge anyways which should natively make it 4D our well in this case outside a 4D realm if you will post merge. Thats how i viewed post merged i could be wrong i gotta rewatch the stuff for post merge divide.

(i hope i am easy to understand here? if anything i miss understood please tell me)

W

 

[Lloydblitzed]

W

Real

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The very fact the Merge isn't on the same scale as MergeQuake + the fact the Realms are trying to share a same space obliderates this argument completly. The Realms are directly affected. I don't think u notice the difference between Mergequakes, Mergequake Storm and the Merge, just because they are linked ≠ doing the same thing or having the same effects. Just because the citizens survived the Realms being rammed togheter doesn't mean the event is non physical, a perfect example of this is the MCU citizens of each timelines not being affected by Loki pulling up their entire universe. He physically moved them, yet citizens weren't affected. Simply Outliers

@DarkDragonMedeus what do u think now

 

[SeijiSetto]

@DarkDragonMedeus what do u think now

(regular users can't ping people)
i gotya tho.
@DarkDragonMedeus

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I may look at it tomorrow.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I may look at it tomorrow.

aight

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'll point out, merging universes together is a 2-C feat, but it's not something we grant durability to characters by default; don't take durability to survive the merging of multiple universes as it's not really an attack per say. And while we could possibly scale to physical stats if UES are involved, but even then; we do not always downscale casual attacks to situations that may be deemed a final attack or an ultimate attack.