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Ninja-Pirate-Mink-Samurai Alliance Vs the Allied Shinobi Forces Vs The Clover Kingdom+Heart Kingdom+Himo

ssgengar said:
I don’t see why adding more naruto characters would warrant verse equalization when it would really just be the same effect on a larger scale, considering they still all use chakra lol but it is what it is. If that’s what shadow and the majority wants then I can accept that ig 🤷‍♂️
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Okay.

ssgengar said:
I mean.. it’s not so much about using vsbw as something to fall back on but it just supports the fact that it’s generally accepted that chakra and magic do have differences. Enough of them that chakra isn’t considered magic or attached to magic in any way at all really. Some of the same similarities they share can be also be shared with chi manipulation
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You are using minor differences like ways characters use their energy system. Even within black clover there are ways a country can use magic unlike the rest. So saying stuff like “you can walk on water in this one while in this one you can’t” or “even tho they both increase stats (a literal fundamental similarity), one is linear and one isnt” is irrelevant. Not once have you mentioned anything different on a fundamental level.

And about the “some” of the similarities being shared with chi manipulation. Keyword: Some. I hope you know simply having some fundamental similarities isn’t valid. So idk why you brought that up. Arkenis and I have brought several (not some) fundamental similarities while you’ve only brought minor stuff which anyone can do in an attempt to neg literally any verse equalization.

Chakra and Mana do not have to be exactly the same. They have to be somehow similar on a fundamental level. They indeed do fit the criteria for verse equalization. Infact the way Naruto depicts Chakra is more similar to Mana than actual Chi.
ssgengar said:
this is gonna bug you but I’m just still not convinced lmao
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No worries, it’s still just your opinion at the end of the day. And I’m willing to argue with you without equalizing.
 
the issue is you have things like Ki in Black Clover that also functions how chakra does,which cant be negated.
the issue is that negating Magic is a super specific ability even within BC, so trying to equalize to any other verse. inherently gives characters an advantage they wouldnt even have within their own verse.

This is for the same reason why TSB are not considered power null for other verses.

otherwise every single character thats a ten tails Jin or has six paths chakra is entirely immune to any magic attack.
 
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shinobi alliance kinda gets murked by asta using his biggest black divider and kinda sweeping them all up

he's been shown to shut off people from using their powers even at really strong levels (see: Lumiere, who he hit with a shoddy Black Divider accidentally), much less fodder AND while he's in Partial Devil Union.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
the issue is you have things like Ki in Black Clover that also functions how chakra does,which cant be negated.
the issue is that negating Magic is a super specific ability even within BC, so trying to equalize to any other verse. inherently gives characters an advantage they wouldnt even have within their own verse.

This is for the same reason why TSB are not considered power null for other verses.

otherwise every single character thats a ten tails Jin or has six paths chakra is entirely immune to any magic attack.
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Trust me verse equalisation is a bitch to deal with and is basically a Vs debating equivalent to Animal Farm where supporters will demand it when it benefits their own verse but will turn a blind eye when it's otherwise detrimental (especially if there's a UES).

"All verses are equal but some are more equal than others in Vs debates".

Also the classic NLF pitfall as well.
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
the issue is you have things like Ki in Black Clover that also functions how chakra does,which cant be negated.
the issue is that negating Magic is a super specific ability even within BC, so trying to equalize to any other verse. inherently gives characters an advantage they wouldnt even have within their own verse.

This is for the same reason why TSB are not considered power null for other verses.

otherwise every single character thats a ten tails Jin or has six paths chakra is entirely immune to any magic attack.
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Ki has the same similarities to Mana as it does to Chakra as well, but I don’t think it’s enough cuz Chakra and Mana share more similarities by far especially with the way they are used. Ki is just not used for attack or defense but rather to convert it to magic for an amped attack similar to Senjutsu?? Idk. Ki is simply just life energy that can also be found everywhere manipulated if skillful enough.

But like I said it’s up to the majority or YOU to decide if we should equalize sure.
 
TauanVictor said:
So, we have come to a conclusion of who wins?
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I wanna say BC verse takes Konoha alliance pretty handily. Genjutsu is useless because they have Asta on their team who can free everyone via his Anti-Magic (if equalising), he has demonstrated the ability to do so with a tap on the head from his anti-magic swords so in his strongest form where he passively exudes it, he probably just needs to stand near them. Not only that, but he has Ki which effectively allows him to fight people above his paygrade in speed - think of it like Valley of the End Sasuke being slower than KN0 Naruto but being able to keep up because of his 3T Sharingan.

Susanoo? Evaporated. Kurama avatar? Gone.

This is Asta alone, they also have some busted healers on their team and people like Yuno/Julius who have crazy AOE and support abilities like timehax and teleporting opponents around.

I don't know much about the One Piece Alliance so I'll let someone else speak there.
 
I disagree with the BC Alliance taking the Konoha Alliance handily but I don't have too much time to make a long answer rn. I might make a post later with all the strengths and weaknesses of all three sides(or at least how I see it)
 
SeijiSetto said:
I wanna say BC verse takes Konoha alliance pretty handily. Genjutsu is useless because they have Asta on their team who can free everyone via his Anti-Magic (if equalising), he has demonstrated the ability to do so with a tap on the head from his anti-magic swords so in his strongest form where he passively exudes it, he probably just needs to stand near them. Not only that, but he has Ki which effectively allows him to fight people above his paygrade in speed - think of it like Valley of the End Sasuke being slower than KN0 Naruto but being able to keep up because of his 3T Sharingan.

Susanoo? Evaporated. Kurama avatar? Gone.

This is Asta alone, they also have some busted healers on their team and people like Yuno/Julius who have crazy AOE and support abilities like timehax and teleporting opponents around.

I don't know much about the One Piece Alliance so I'll let someone else speak there.
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Yeah the One Piece Alliance has most of the stuff you listed besides time hax, because the one girl in the verse with it has very limited time hax that only lets you go into the future and she also ******* died somehow despite having said time hax.
 
The ob haki should allow them to evade Julius's time bubbles though. Which can makes it more hard for BC but with team work, they could get some people
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Yeah the One Piece Alliance has most of the stuff you listed besides time hax, because the one girl in the verse with it has very limited time hax that only lets you go into the future and she also ******* died somehow despite having said time hax.
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Ob haki is pretty busted. Though afaik the only person who's explicitly shown to have advanced there is Luffy, Julius also has literal precog by seeing the future. Does anyone there (except Law) have an answer to Dark Cloaked Dimensional Slash? It's a magic slash from Yami that negs defense by cutting space.

And for the record - if it misses, Asta's able to use the flat of his sword to reflect it back at an enemy, so if they don't expect the double pincer they can catch a couple people off guard like that. BC Alliance also has Zora who can reflect spells back with 2x the power and speed, so RIP any ninjutsu that hits that.
 
SeijiSetto said:
Ob haki is pretty busted. Though afaik the only person who's explicitly shown to have advanced there is Luffy, Julius also has literal precog by seeing the future. Does anyone there (except Law) have an answer to Dark Cloaked Dimensional Slash? It's a magic slash from Yami that negs defense by cutting space.
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How far is said slash range?
 
speedster352 said:
Interdimensional
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Correct. He was able to use it to cut apart a spell that had transported the room he was in to another dimension. It's not a thing that can be blocked either, so if Zoro or anyone similar thinks "i can take it" like he did against Big Mom and Kaido's combined attack, he dies.
 
I don’t want to be that guy but what stop time stop or time reversal? What stops Vanessa fate manipulation? What stops powerful AOE attacks? Asta powernull? And Yuno new hax?
 
speedster352 said:
I don’t want to be that guy but what stop time stop or time reversal? What stops Vanessa fate manipulation? What stops powerful AOE attacks? Asta powernull? And Yuno new hax?
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I completely forgot Vanessa's fate manip was a factor, even though I saw you mention it before. It completely negates anything she considers bad happening to people she cares about. One of her team mates got beheaded in front of her and the spell (which is passive, not an active thing) just said "lol no" and reverted it so it missed. Btw if my BC knowledge is rusty please do correct me, I've only actually read up to the start of the witches forest arc and the rest is just knowledge I have from here.
 
SeijiSetto said:
Correct. He was able to use it to cut apart a spell that had transported the room he was in to another dimension. It's not a thing that can be blocked either, so if Zoro or anyone similar thinks "i can take it" like he did against Big Mom and Kaido's combined attack, he dies.
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Well Law could make it so if they get split in half they can be put back together by his own powers.
Yes, he can do that.
Yes, it's broken.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Well Law could make it so if they get split in half they can be put back together by his own powers.
Yes, he can do that.
Yes, it's broken.
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Really? As far as I know ROOM can only put back together things it's cut since it doesn't really "cut" them per se. Yami's Dimensional Slash is a legitimate sword slash that just happens to be capable of spatial cuts. If you get hit by it you're getting bisected, you can't block it, only dodge or warp it (like one character did with gravity magic).
 
SeijiSetto said:
Really? As far as I know ROOM can only put back together things it's cut since it doesn't really "cut" them per se. Yami's Dimensional Slash is a legitimate sword slash that just happens to be capable of spatial cuts. If you get hit by it you're getting bisected, you can't block it, only dodge or warp it (like one character did with gravity magic).
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Yeah, when Kinemon was hit by Kaidou he split into two and lived because of Law's ability.
 
BC fellas get outnumbered and outhaxed by Narutoverse
OP fellas (unfortunately) get a little bit less outnumbered but severely more outhaxed

BC guys can be impressive in a level idk since I haven't read it, but ALL THOSE impressive guys like Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, Kakashi...or those a little bit less impressive like Lee, Chouji, Ohnoki being able to delete people, and a. ****. Ton. Of. Figurants.

My preference would be for OP, but Narutoverse simply wins
 
Oh yeah, and every single one of those guys amped on an unknown level via kurama chakra lol
 
noninho said:
Oh yeah, and every single one of those guys amped on an unknown level via kurama chakra lol
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Outnumbered I'd argue against since most of them are fodder ninjas. That, AND Kurama amps literally get negged by Asta making his sword kilometers long (Black Divider) and batting them all into the sky.
 
SeijiSetto said:
Outnumbered I'd argue against since most of them are fodder ninjas. That, AND Kurama amps literally get negged by Asta making his sword kilometers long (Black Divider) and batting them all into the sky.
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To how much thousand can he do that? How does that compare to random shinobi(who's a little bit more than a regular human),+kurama or like Chouji+kurama chakra?
 
SeijiSetto said:
The way you phrased it you implied law can use it to heal people. It's not like that at all, it's more that if he separates a person using Kikoku in ROOM and they don't get put back together properly, then being hit near their seams allows them to negate a little bit of fatal damage?
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Yeah, but as you may see there, Kinemon was still bleeding from the hit.
It just didn't murder him.
 
TheMonkeMan said:
Yeah, but as you may see there, Kinemon was still bleeding from the hit.
It just didn't murder him.
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No, yeah. I'm not saying it's completely irrelevant, it's a good point, just kinda situational and also relies on Law knowing that his abilities work that way (which AFAIK [which isn't very far] he doesn't, it was just a side effect) and THEN doing that to every member of the OP alliance to give them resistance to one-shots by bisection, which is by itself kinda situational.
 
noninho said:
BC fellas get outnumbered and outhaxed by Narutoverse
OP fellas (unfortunately) get a little bit less outnumbered but severely more outhaxed

BC guys can be impressive in a level idk since I haven't read it, but ALL THOSE impressive guys like Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, Kakashi...or those a little bit less impressive like Lee, Chouji, Ohnoki being able to delete people, and a. ****. Ton. Of. Figurants.

My preference would be for OP, but Narutoverse simply wins
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Black Clover outhaxes the Naruto alliance clearly.

They are impressive.

I implore you to make your preferrence based on arguments and not based on your limited knowledge.
 
noninho said:
BC guys can be impressive in a level idk since I haven't read it, but ALL THOSE impressive guys like Naruto, Sasuke, Gaara, Kakashi...or those a little bit less impressive like Lee, Chouji, Ohnoki being able to delete people, and a. ****. Ton. Of. Figurants.
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Gaara can barely protect his village without using the sand surrounding his village.

Kakashi (assuming its war arc) isn’t deleting a ”**** ton” of people in any way at all.

Lee needed several other people performing the gates to destroy a meteor and even then couldnt fully do it so bro is not doing much alone.

Chouji gets pelted by thousands of attacks, gets sliced in half by Asta, gets slashed by Yami.

Ohnoki’s attack may honestly just get reflected or have yami precog it and attack him before he can get it off, not to mention Yuno should be able to just teleport his gang, or just set up stars to power null the effects of particle style.
 
Arkenis said:
Gaara can barely protect his village without using the sand surrounding his village.

Kakashi (assuming its war arc) isn’t deleting a ”**** ton” of people in any way at all.

Lee needed several other people performing the gates to destroy a meteor and even then couldnt fully do it so bro is not doing much alone.

Chouji gets pelted by thousands of attacks, gets sliced in half by Asta, gets slashed by Yami.

Ohnoki’s attack may honestly just get reflected or have yami precog it and attack him before he can get it off, not to mention Yuno should be able to just teleport his gang, or just set up stars to power null the effects of particle style.
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mfw I'm Ohnoki and Asta hits me with that lightspeed particle style-reflect baseball swing
 
Arkenis said:
no? Thats more of a range thing. Compared to the BC team its pretty shit range too.


Oh, yeah he still isn't ******* up a ton of people. If anything his massive susanoo will be a big counter to attack easier.
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He can use kamui with his susanoo
 
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