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NieR: Automata Upgrade

Professor_Evelyn

Professor_Evelyn

205
4
"Claiming outlier is just a cheap tactic to make stronger characters weaker" - Jasper, probably

In all seriosuness tho I highly disagree with the downgrade of the series and will posit some arguments as why the profiles of 2B, A2, 9S, Adam and any one who scales because I feel the Mountain tanking feat is consistent with the game and general drakengard nier multiverse

  • During the battle with Grun, 2B and 9S are hit by the machines arm, which has already been calculated to be low 6-B aka small country level.
  • Adam not only created the copied city, casually which is a city level feat but he mentions creating many more of them so this is a consistent abilities of his (consistent with how casually the Tower was created)
  • Mountain level feats are consistent with taro's related works, Manah is mountain level for casually lifting the sky fortress and we know the verse, via SINoALICE, can go much higher
  • While technically in cyberspace A2 contended with (though was losing) against the Red Girls who are literally the combination of all machines, meaning they are as and likely stronger than Grun
  • Not to mention the so called "outliered" feat is treated as a somewhat normal feat as resistance leader anemone was also present during the pearl harbour descent and survived
  • Not to mention that android models after the A series were built using the combat data on the incident so "updated" models should also be able to more easily survive that feat, there is actual plot revolving around the pearl harbour descent and how it improved YoRHa design


My Conclusion: Clearly at the high end A2 fights with the red girls and 2B/9S tank a hit from Grun directly, both small country level feats and on the low end Adam casually has made entire cities multiple times by his word and the casual creation of the Tower backs this up. City Level and in the middle you have an OLD model tanking the explosion that destroyed the hawaiian volcano. Mountain Level.

In no way should any of the Automata characters be town level. They ought to be AT LEAST mountain level and likely small country level scaling to Grun and the Red Girls.
 
Grunge hitting a small target means all of his force wasn't hitting them. It's like how a human can tank a 9B car crash, they aren't taking all the energy of that.

Adam did so over an unspecified period of time, and wouldn't inherently have done so in an AP applicable way.

Unrelated works, unrelated feats.

Pearl Harbor wasn't 7A. It was actually closer to the current value. That said, it's irrelevant as we don't know what happened there.

Except they didn't. Because 9S and 2B very specifically had the exact same feat and both were destroyed in the beginning of the game.

Gg no re.
 
its Grun. and to say a small country level smack was reduced to town level is in a word, stupid. in another word unsubstantiated. Besides you cannot take away A2 fighting with the Red Girls which is a small country level feat.

We actually know how fast Adam built it, the elevator to the city did not work until he captured 9S and considering the Tower was built instantly there is no reason to doubt he couldn't do the same for these cities.

Pearl Harbor was certainly 7-A the volvano is the biggest in the world. Also we know exactly what happened via the stage play and if your to broke to have not seen it we know via the terminal in automata that tells the whole story. Cut and Dry

And self destruction doesn't disprove anything really. Destroying 3 living and one deactivated 7-A Engels plus the bridge that connected the factory via self destruction works with what i have laid out.
 
Oh boy. I dont rly have time for this, but I guess I could spare a bit of time this afternoon. Untill then, the short version would be:

1. Didnt actually take it directly + the calc is wack anyways

2. Ok... mhm... how does anyone scale to such a creation feat? pretty sure we never even saw how he did it, but its been a while

3. You cant just cross scale like this.

4. How does "being the combination of all machines" warrant AP? But lets say they do get the combined AP coz y not. You yourself gave a reason to why this isnt rly a feat.

5+6. If thats the volcano feat... iirc that ones wack too, but I'd have to look at it again.

But yeah, on my phone at university rn, so Ill give a better/more detailed and probably less douchey sounding explanation.
 
Alright.

1. Pretty straight forward. They didn't take the hit, they got safed. The calc is also iffy since it claims that Grun can move at redicolous speeds,... which he can't. Its just a crappy portrail of the scene. Kinda like giving this guy supersonic speeds coz he can make his ponytail move up and off his shoulder faster than the eye can see >.>

Then there is also the issue that its punch wouldn't be at the same level of strenght anyways and it gets even worse when you realize that the 2km of hight were applied to a stooped Grun... and only to its torso on top of that, needlessly inflating the size even further. This effectively made the Grun used in the calc 3-4km tall, rather than just 2km. So honestly, its hit would effectively only be low to mid tier 7 anyways.

2. There is no reason to scale a feat we dont even see and includes creation. Honestly, even if the guy created an entire city in lets say, um, idk, an hour. That'd just be too long to justify city level, even if we don't scale it, but its been a while since last playing everything, so if I got something wrong here, pls enlighten me.

3. Me and Bambu already answered that. Kind of a simple point. I guess it would be like scaling Goku and Arale to each other.

4. Just gonna quote myself again. "How does "being the combination of all machines" warrant AP?" Also, like you have said yourself, due to circumstances this isn't all that great of a feat.

5. Well, on this one I am not rly sure, since the quote is kind of... iffy anyways.

"A soft wind touches my cheek. I smell fire. I smell ash. The explosion in the server room was strong enough to take out Mt. Ka'ala itself, reducing the once proud summit to a smoking crater."

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/nier-automata-analysis-thread.508052/

This quote is iffy, because it starts by saying "the mountain itself" and then says "the once proud summit". The guys at SB took the (imho) reasonable approach and went with the crater statement, which yields (going by what they said) 4 megatons, which is low 7-B.

Also, about 2B and 9s both dying, I do NOT think its an antifeat in any way, since they took literally twice the ammount directly to the face, while A2 took only one black box from "afar". (Even small distances already greatly reduce what you actually have to tank)

That should be it... I hope.
 
A meter reduces the durability needed to tank an explosion to about 1/16th of the value, for the record.
 
A human has a frontal surface area of 0.68 m^2. A sphere with a radius of one meter has a 12.67 m^2 surface area. So let's assume a blast has a one ton of TNT value.

1 / 12.67 = 0.0789 tons of TNT/m^2

0.0789 * 0.68 = 0.05365 Tons of TNT tanked by the character.

So I was a bit off in my estimation, it's closer to 18.5x less durability needed to tank. Thanks though.
 
Ah, alright. I was rly confused since there is by no means a constant number for that. Alright. I guess thats a fine estimate. I do find it a bit weird though that you are ignoring time, but it shouldn't be much of a difference for either small explosions or small distances.
 
Ah yes, time. The explosion must move one meter and has a speed of 8092 m/s. So that 0.0001 second is super duper important, obviously, of course, yes sir, my bad for not including that into my estimation for why tanking an explosion from quite literally any distance worth noting is fodder tier.
 
Not sure, but u seem salty o.o

I also feel like this might be a bit derailing, but since the op kinda just left I am not sure if it rly matters
 
People out here doubting me for 0.0001 seconds, how did you expect that to come off lol

And yeah, this thread is sorta pointless since it was made from what's ultimately a lack of understanding of how that sort of thing works
 
"but it shouldn't be much of a difference for either small explosions or small distances."

But actually looking at it, its your 1/18.5 compared to a 1/33.3 and thats while neglecting decline of velocity and energy due to combustion and friction, which would likely push it into the 1/50 region o.o Still gotta figure that part out though. Likely gonna take all weekend. Muh whitebord's gonna be full lmao or I'll just do it on onenote

Edit:"People out here doubting me for 0.0001 seconds, how did you expect that to come off lol"

I am not sure how it came off, tbqh. Rude? Maybe? If so, I am sorry.

Edit Edit: I realized I messed up with my calc >.>
 
Let me double down on the feats I am truly confident in

1) The tower creation feat IS a visable feat we see happen that happens in only a few seconds and its a casual feat, Adam should scale to this feat as well in term of scale and speed. Then that same tower fell on A2's face and in ending E at least she survived that which is the canonical ending.

2) The Red Girls are very literally all the machines combined ego so she has all the powers of all the machines and more, fighting A2 and A2 being capable of fighting her works as a feat. Including Grun so even if Grun itself didnt hit the androids full power, the Red girls certainly did.

3) A2 was inside the volcano (the story mentions her riding an elevator in the mountan) and being caught in the explosion then being crushed under the rubble. That sounds to me like a mountain level feat

4) Not a feat but the idea that we are putting the likes of A2 into the same powerclass as Kaine and Nier is laughable. Given the fact that Popola and Devola were top tiers in Gestalt and the same model is absolute fodder in Automata.
 
1) Are you referring to the towers that just sorta rose from the ground? If so then no, we don't see them created and there are any number of other explanations other than "Adam formed them from AP right there boom". The latter part of this refers back to the thing where if you're much smaller than an object you don't need to tank all of the energy of the object outright. Also probably wouldn't beat Tier 7.

2) Ego, not physicality. Also notice the inconsistency in your suggestion even if we took it at face value -> Red Girls = Might of all androids = A2, a single android. Doesn't really work.

3) It isn't. Most volcanoes tend to be Low 7-B to 7-B even if we took A2 as having taken everything it had in it, which she didn't. Even being fully encompassed in lava is a 9-B feat, and being crushed under rubble is survivable by normal humans under good conditions.

4) Okay.
 
1) what in the world are you talking about there is a cutscene showing how swiftly the Tower is created literally right after 9S falls off the bridge. So clearly you haven't been paying attention.

2) Already been a thread of scaling the Red Girls. But your statement makes no sense. The Red Girls we're winning the fight with A2. She only survived because the Pod helped to outsmart the Red Girls by overloading them.

3) to bad the volcano in question is the largest in the world so your first statement doesn't matter. Secondly she was IN the reactor room when it exploded. Evidently you never saw the stage play to know.


So you didnt know we saw we saw the Tower b being created, you didn't know how A2 even beat the Red Girls, you aren't aware how they scale, and you never even saw the stage play about the Pearl Harbor descent which is canon. How can any of your statements even be counted as reliable
 
1) https://youtu.be/Kwn7PLy3jvw

We see it being created, but we never see who created it wasnt Adam already dead at that point?

2) Link to that thread pls.

3) That's great and all, but what we do know is that the reactor room is pretty darn far up the volcano and not somewhere right in the middle. The stageplay actually tells you all the time where exactly you are located and IIRC the reactor room was at the "top" of Mt. Ka'ala.
 
1) Never said ADAM made it. I said he should scale to the feat of the Red Girls making it at the very least the speed feat of it.

2) https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/853962 DaFritzi and CivilProtectiom was the resident experts on the verse at the time

3) Doesn't truly matter if it still managed to destroy the entire volcano. It is actually harder to do from the top down than from the center outwards so thats even better as a feat.
 
1) Oh, ok. I thought you ment Adam made it coz you were only ever mentioning him. Anyways, what reason would he have to scale to the red girls, if they are by your own definition >>> Adam?

2) I'll read that later and thx for the link.

3) Urgh, since the feat doesnt make it clear if it was literally the entire mountain or just the summit, yes, yes does matter >.>
 
1) Just the speed feat. I don't think hes stronger at all, but the speed feat is there to imply he can make the copied cities just as fast, coupled with the fact it doesn't exist until after Grun is killed, and he's also made a ton of other similar structures in a short time span. Heavily implies this is his speed feat

2) nothing really to say here

3) Given that she is climbing out of rubble and the machine server on the island was stated to pretty much be completely obliterated combine that with similar self destruction/explosion feats in the verse AP wise can be mountain level (its accepted black box reactions are said level). Not to mention the Commander expected A2 (and everyone) to die in the blast and some explosion that isn't even town level if its just the summit wouldn't kill any YoRHa.
 
urgh... 9s almost died by getting "slighly" nodged by an engel. You know, the guys who arent even at what the crater explosion would be, like urgh, 10x less actually. Just saying.
 
Engels and 9S are literally in the same tier what are you trying to prove. And 9S is a scanner. NOT a combat unit. 2B went on a headon collision with the Engels arm and was fine. Because she is stronger than 9S. Let us get back to attacking the steelman arguments

Edit: Not to mention we are talking about A2 who is confirmed to have killed 2B and 9S dozens of times before.
 
Still makes absolutely no sense.

As it stands currently

1) Adam does have the speed feats given all the evidence to build the copied city swiftly. 7-B feat

2) A2 fighting with the Red Girls is a feat, specifically a low 6-B feat

3) Given that she is climbing out of rubble and the machine server on the island was stated to pretty much be completely obliterated combine that with similar self destruction/explosion feats in the verse AP wise can be mountain level (its accepted black box reactions are said level). Not to mention the Commander expected A2 (and everyone) to die in the blast and some explosion that isn't even town level if its just the summit wouldn't kill any YoRHa. Yes even 9S who will scale to A2 and so will the Engels.
 
Okay so you were referring to what I thought you were. Created is the wrong word, hence my confusion. We see them built, or sorta just build themselves. And... it wouldn't be anywhere near higher than High 7-C since they are quite big but only really eclipse rather large buildings. Nor were they made in a second, which is needed for AP.

9S can be in the same tier as a person who ***** him up. Tiers are big and scaling is generally an estimate of comparability, meaning it isn't a 1:1 AP.

Building a city isn't inherently 7-B, the Red Girls need not be Low 6-B scaling to Grue since that really doesn't add up, believe Rather also just has an issue with the Grue calc which frankly I agree with but it's only really affected one character, we've been over why explosion tanking isn't going to work the way you're thinking it is.

I appreciate the effort, but none of this is concretely higher than what the 'droids are as of right now.
 
Yeah the Red Girls do need to be low 6-B. THere is no good reason for them not to be considering they are very literally every machine combined in a literal sense. Plus considering the machine network extends to all of the aliens former territories (stated several times in game) and the red girls would have been able to tank the ending y explosion you can easily argue them to be higher than low 6-B. but thats a different argument.

and we all know the tower was built pretty casually by the Red Girls. But whats worth noting is you can literally see on the inside of the tower in the walls and in the distance you see buildings and buildings and more buildings. Besides not to mention your igmoring all the other circumstantial evidence for the speed feat of the copied cities.

regarding the volcano explosion earlier in this very thread you said this "The guys at SB took the (imho) reasonable approach and went with the crater statement, which yields (going by what they said) 4 megatons, which is low 7-B." So there is no way you should be able to honestly rate the androids as anything lower than 7-B.

Another thing i realized is Emil as well as Nier and Kaine and Weiss were completely unharmed by his Aerie destruction feat (town level) but later at the end of the game was nearly killed by Popola's self destruction. The same model androids (the popola and devola of automata) are extraordinarily weaker than the YoRHa. To be more simplistic i am saying this

Aerie destruction feat (7-C)- emil and friends casually tanked < Popola self destruction (7-B) - emil had to sacifice himself to prevent the others from being killed and nearly died himself < Engels self destruciton feat (2B and 9S were unharmed) < Mt. Ka'ala 4 megaton feat (7-B) worth noting A2 was actually fatigued here since she and her team were fighting for awhile before the explosion < In automata the twins (P and D) can be killed by machines even 9S can handle on his own. < A2 or 2B and 9S defeating an Emil who has 10,000 years more experience than gestalt emil (High 7-B) < Not fatigued A2 fighting the Red Girls (low 6-B)
 
Ego, not physicality. And, again, the Low 6-B calc is shifty. So they don't need to be Low 6-B.

The tower isn't a High 7-C structure even if it were done in an AP applicable way. Which I don't believe it was, since all we see of its construction is the tower rising from the ground at moderate speeds.

Even the Low 7-B part comes with the issue of the droids not tanking their own blackbox explosions. So it would be, "High 7-C, Low 7-B with Black Box Explosion". Emil is in a completely different form in this game though? The past games feats don't really matter, nor is being > 7-C equal to being flat out 7-B. That's ludicrous. Shattering an Engels isn't High 7-C, 4 Megatons isn't 7-B, you're returning to the inconsistent argument of "P and D" being all machines combined physically and then being overtaken by normal machines, and experience isn't potency.

None of this is AP, and most of your arguments rely purely on conjecture (Being greater than 7-C = 7-B), a lack of understanding of how AP works (experience = AP, somehow), or vastly overestimating the value of certain feats (Towers being High 7-C somehow). We also have wild circular scaling (Twins being superior to all droids ever, thus making them Low 6-B, but struggle vs weak base level droids, thus 9S is vastly superior to the droids supposedly superior to all droids ever, a category which includes 9S).

I'll give you a day or two to go out and find some actual concrete numbers but frankly thus far this has been a waste of time.
 
I have no idea what you thought I was saying because even I cannot understand what you just said. Honestly the only thing you really haven't beat is Red Girls low 6-B statement. your only argument is "its shifty" which is a horrible anecdotal argument. So that stands.

Past game feats do matter. Since oh i don't know ever game series ever uses all the games in its continuity? thats a dumb statement,

Never said Popla and Devola are all amchines combined. I don't know how you made that one up.

In a previous statement made by yourself you admitted the Mt. Ka'ala explosion was 7-B. are you retracting?

I don't know what your Red Girls statement is supposed to mean? You completely made that up. 9S never even fought the red girls firstly. secondl they were winning their battle with A2 handily, and thirdly they were outsmarted into defeating themselves. So please attack steelmans. Not whatever mumbo jumbo you make up off the top of your head.

Also wow fatigued 2B and 9S, 9S who was on his last leg literally mind you, can't tank his own self destruction. Gee wiz its almost like he was INJURED by an enemy his same tier which weakened him to the point the explosions could kill. Not mention 2B was also injured.

Got to be honest, I can barely read your post because its just full of bad arguments, strawmen, and you claiming things I never said or things that never even happened in game. I mean when has anyone ever said Popola and Devola are stronger than ALL machines?

And how about I give you a few days to disprove the Red Girl low 6-B thing since that was already in an approved thread from 2 years ago. Why don't you contact DaFritzi or CivilProtectiom or something.
 
That's not my only argument. My argument is that they clearly aren't Low 6-B by way of massive contradictions in your statements. Your scaling works by saying they scale to Grue, notably a creature that required corps of androids to fight off. You then scale the redheads to normal droids because they struggled to fight them, and used that to argue 9S as Low 6-B. If you can't see the obvious contradictions then you're either entirely new to this system or biased and wanking, your choice.

Entirely ignoring every other argument I've given, the fact that you continue to disregard stuff in the most condescending manner suggests to me an issue here.
 
Whats condescending is you still don't know what I was saying. again. WHO in the world said said popola scale to YoRHa? I mean first you claim I said that they are above all machines and now they scale to YoRHa? EH? I have to assume droids means androids here. I said popola and devola who were stronger than town level Gestalt era Emil is complete fodder as far as andoids go in Automata. Then you claim somehow because I said they were fodder that proved 9S is low 6-B? EH?

Did you even read the thread justifying the Red Girls current status? Did you contact DaFritzi? No. no you didnt.

Honestly it is an insult to my arguments and my intelligence that your mangling what I have said and claiming things I never said at all and make no logical sense.

Look it is very clear you have absolutely no real arguments. I might even call DaFritzi myself if you can't find any compelling evidence. I have to be honest. The drive to downgrade automata is looking more and more to have been made on blind ignorance in an echo chamber where anecdote is taken as evidence than any real thoughtful evidenced base consideration.

You have a few days to find new evidence.
 
"Another thing i realized is Emil as well as Nier and Kaine and Weiss were completely unharmed by his Aerie destruction feat (town level) but later at the end of the game was nearly killed by Popola's self destruction. The same model androids (the popola and devola of automata) are extraordinarily weaker than the YoRHa. To be more simplistic i am saying this "

Bruh. Cut it out. Bring me some numbers to back up your ratings, or stop. So let's turn this around, since I've tried to talk it out with you and all I've heard back is "thats a dumb statement,", "Honestly the only thing you really haven't beat is Red Girls low 6-B statement. your only argument is "its shifty" which is a horrible anecdotal argument. So that stands." (despite being given a wall of debunks), and so on.

So I'll give you two days as you tried to impose on me. If you can't prove whatever the hell you are actually arguing for at this point in a satisfactory way before then, I'll close the thread. Cheers.

For the record, some of the tiers you're suggesting, literally do not exist. High 7-B, for example. I'm trying to listen to you, but you simply sitting there yelling about how illogical everybody else is, isn't actually useful. It's just noise.
 
You Literarlly are doing the same thing. I have actually conceded points. and what you bolded isn't me scaling the twins to yotha if you notice. Extremely weaker isn't what people use as a term for scaling my man.

I actually have the Red Girl Statement. That is literally the one thing you've danced around but I got it. Its been accepted for two years. DaFrtzi, CivilProtectiom and the others of that thread PROVED their point 2 years ago. The burden of proof is on you to undo their arguments. This is common sense.

So you need to find some evidence.
 
No, I'm literally not. I'm not making a positive claim, I'm merely arguing against yours. YOU are the one trying to introduce new numbers to the system whereas I am standing for the ones in place already. Ergo, YOU need to form basis for said new numbers and ratings. I'm also going to go ahead and assume I know a bit more about how scaling works than you, no offense intended, when you literally made up a tier that doesn't exist in this thread and refuse to speak at all about my points about the red girls. In fact...

Regarding the Red Girls: I have disproved it. It's inconsistent and frankly obviously not true. The red girls struggle to battle even basic androids, thus their ego obviously has zero links to their AP. The fact that some arbitrary consensus was reached two years ago has absolutely zero relevance now, when the verse has been wildly revised in the meantime.

Two days. That's my ultimatum. I wish you luck.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
Regarding the Red Girls: I have disproved it. It's inconsistent and frankly obviously not true. The red girls struggle to battle even basic androids, thus their ego obviously has zero links to their AP. The fact that some arbitrary consensus was reached two years ago has absolutely zero relevance now, when the verse has been wildly revised in the meantime. .
Click to expand...
RIght . . . and who exactly did they struggle to fight exactly? You mean A2 who was going to die before the pod helped her outsmart them? You call that disproving. I certainly know the lore better than you if you don't even know how the fight even went down.

I just want the old 7-B possibly 7-A feats back. I think 7-C is BS and you know it is. Way to many lore reasons and in game feats for that to be a thing. And again I am the one using the original numbers, again the numbers presented 2 years ago. The numbers still present on some of the profiles.

Quit the ultimatum crap and actually show me some evidence. I mean struggle to battle basic androids? You make them sound like their resistance android fodder? Firstly in the YoRHa Boys stage play those yorha were JOKES to them. So they obviously aren't "Struggling" and again they were WINNING against A2. Easily. She lived because their ego turned agaisnt each other and defeated each other. Then they show up at the very end sound and well. You call that "struggling?" show me some proof

Literally your evidence has been pure conjecture.
 
Right before 9S enters the Tower, the two are defending it from the droids and visibly struggling. One takes more damage from the wall than 9S does, and another struggles to hold off an attack from a larger robot. So literally nothing about this has any bearing.

I don't care what you want. The feats are represented, merely not as wanked as before. So the ultimatum stands. My evidence exists, whereas my only knowledge of you is the disrespect shown in this thread and the slew of warnings for baseless ratings for literally this verse. Forgive me if I lack immense faith in your own conjecture and circular arguments.
 
What are you talking about? We aren't talking about Popola and Devola we already know they are fodder. No one is comparing them to YoRHa? Did you not read that we are talking about the Red Girls? Yet you show me a . . . . . . . . . . . . . entirely irrelevant situation?

Sir. You don't even know what your arguing. Attack the steelman not the strawmen and stop bringing up Red Herrings. Do you have anything that disproved the Red Girls becaue first you said they "struggled" which I handily debunked and now you have regressed into nonesense arguements that don't even have any bearing. Yeah we get it. P and D are fodder. congratulations for saying something I have already said. Now get back to the Red Girls

"lack faith in my argument" at least I'm still with the plot. Take a day to rest your mind. Maybe you'll remember what we are discussing. THE RED GIRLS. Not popola and devola
 
Okay so you are talking about Alpha and Beta. I was confused because both of them are what I've heard referred to as Red Girls. With that said... Alpha and Beta are just... digital. They don't have AP, they're just a combined consciousness. The equivalent argument would be like "Trump is 7-A because he can control a 7-A device". He isn't. I agree the Red Girls (these red girls) are the combined ego of the droids, but they don't really fight in a typical sense. The points otherwise still stand, the inconsistencies I pointed out do indeed refer to these Red Girls (I've been trying to argue Popola/Devola and Alpha/Beta simultaneously).

You haven't debunked the inconsistency of your circular scaling. That's the core issue of the Red Girls, outside of there just being no statements of them being physically superior to all robots including Grue.

Two days. So... December 8th, at about 1 AM, I will close this. Before replying with "LeARn vERsE hAh dEBuNkt", I want you to compile in one large post actual tangible evidence for your side. If this can't be done, then you can't make a CRT successfully.
 
"Trump is 7-A because he can control a 7-A device". He isn't. I agree the Red Girls (these red girls) are the combined ego of the droids, but they don't really fight in a typical sense. The points otherwise still stand, the inconsistencies I pointed out do indeed refer to these Red Girls (I've been trying to argue Popola/Devola and Alpha/Beta simultaneously).

Once again it isn't my job to prove anything. The terminals, red girls, whatever are already listed as low 6-B based on the thread made by quiet a few knowlgeable members of this community. Saying "I do not buy it" is not evidence no matter how many times you say it. You need to show me direct evidence that this is not true.

And spouting the ultimatum to run off from showing real proof doesn't work. Also I could argue that the Terminals who ARE the machine network are multi continent level because they would have survived ending Y when Emil turns the planet to a lifeless husk. Seeing as the Network would have survived since its on other worlds. That far and away the best feat on Power in Automata. Theres your statement.

So if you have a better argument that "Eh I dont buy it" or "ultimatum blah blah blah" share it. Otherwise your just dodging the question. THE CURRENT precedent is that they are Low 6-B. Thats on their profile thats wha has been accepted and your challenging it. prove it.
 
Once again, it really is your job. That's what a CRT is lol. Their terminal is listed as Low 6-B, via controlling Grue, which again, as pointed out by Rather above, may need its own CRT.

Literally when you take up a CRT, burden of proof is on you. If you want something to change, you have to do something to enact that change, not act as if these changes are already 100% in place and everyone else must concede. You'll be receiving a message on your wall shortly.
 
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