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Nier Powers/abilities revision

Not quite happy with where the powers and abilities stand.

Nier as a whole

  • Removals
    • Stuff like Higher dimensional manip, quantum manip, spatial manip, information manip let's just congregate all of them as magic. Cuz magic is already defined as the ability to warp aspects of reality. No need to give all this hair-splitting. Especially since we don't really have any example of it in action except for vague description on the mechanics of maso. Now I do have a habit of going "Oh wait a minute" after the fact so there might be an exception that escapes me right now but as it stands most of this is just a really wordy way of saying magic.
      • An alternative solution I can think of is to give maso it's own page. I landed on the digimon page while trying to figure out what information manip actually entailed and they also have their share of whacked out abilities so we can take a few pages from them.
      • Resistance to durability negation? Da frick does that mean? Which form? What way?
Nier Automata

  • Add
    • Intangibility and durability negation for all laser users (might be moot on the last part. I think most use lasers)
      • the laser passes through solid objects
        • They use the word 'pierce' but this one is the continuous laser stream rather than the single shot. So you can shoot it in a direction then rotate it to face the enemies and it'll go through all of them. I picked this particular one cuz even though both lasers go through all enemies, the single shot seems like it does it through hard penetration like a bullet.
        • Machine lasers do the same. Grab a spider and have him do a spin laser
      • Also would list under weaknesses that certain materials including heat resistant material would take no damage from the laser (the scan of 10H dodging the laser will have that paragraph)
      • Alternatively I was thinking about adding separate pages for the Pod and Flight unit
  • Tweaks
    • Just some discrepancies among the abilities. Like 8B will have Organic manipulation stating she can produce her own fluids to run her reactor but for like 2B it's under self sustenance. I think we should pick a category.
    • For the lesser YoRHa, they have Pod and plugin chips under their standard equipment. If that is the case I will give them a copy of the information
    • YoRHa commander isn't actually a YoRHa so she doesn't get the "can't run out of fuel" clause.
    • Some of the machines seem lacking in what they can do. LIke Beauvoir shoots lasers and unleashes EMP so that should be marked down somewhere.
    • I was doing some cleaning up on the nier pages when I noticed under items there is "items can grant 2B invulnerability to physical and range attacks". What item is that? Cuz I've been digging through the item list and can't find anything. I've found stuff that reduces it but reduce is "that hurts less" as opposed to invulnerability which is "you can't hurt me".
    • Durability negation via hacking
  • Removals
    • Abstract Existence. Like I can see it with the Red Girls but throwing it onto everyone else? Yeah, maybe they are technically through the power of copy/paste but it feels gimmicky. Like saying a person has heat manipulation simply because they can produce body heat. It also gives a false impression of what it takes to kill them..
    • Stuff like the concept manipulation. I imagine concept manipulation as in like if I killed death then no one can die because death is no longer a thing. By pasting it on also feels gimicky.
    • Resistance to Mind manipulation. This implies telepathy. Resistance to hacking should be enough. Remove these from any and all androids.
    • 2B, 9S, and A2 should lose their 'singularity' title. There has been no confirmation of who the singularity is. There is one confirmed singularity so that person can keep theirs. But those three are not confirmed to be singularities, only suspected.
Also funny story ^
I didn't like the whole "traveled from orbit to earth in 30 seconds" thing so I went to do my own calculations thinking it would be a hard downgrade. But the numbers I got were the same speed rating. Went to get it approved. Got feedback from a calc mod, made the appropriate changes, and the changes gave it an even higher speed rating.

Nier Replicant

  • Base
    • Weapon creation via dark lance (The thing that makes giant spikes), dark hand (the thing that makes giant hands), dark whirlwind (the thing that makes giant scythes), and dark execution (the thing that makes giant spears)
  • Words
    • Statistics Amplification from various words since they can do stuff like increase physical strength, attack strength, knock back resistance etc.
    • Status Effect Inducement namely Confuse and I'll list the worse that can inflict Confuse.
    • Statistics Reduction in the form of Weaken and I'll list the words that cause weaken.
    • Life Drain & Durability Negation and I'll list the words that cause HP Drain.
    • Paralysis Inducement and I'll list the words that cause Paralyze
    • Absorption in the form of magical energy drain and I'll list the words that drain MP
    • Poison Manipulation in the form of Poison and I'll list the words that inflict Poison status
  • Items
    • Healing (via herbs salves, potions, and flowers. Didn't even realize you can heal with flowers. I only ever sold them.)
    • Stat amplification (various Drops & Capsules double physical strength or magical damage)
    • Damage Reduction (various drops & capsules halves physical damage or magical damage taken
    • Poison manipulation (Antidal weed cures poison)
 
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Agreed 100%, I was thought the Nier profiles were pretty sus in terms of the hax that got added to them quite some time ago. (Namely the Abstract Existence, Conceptual manipulation and Higher D manipulation.)
 
Bumpity bump bump. Yeah, I'd like to get this sorted out as quickly as possible so if no one else answers then I'm just gonna have to go with this. And personally, leaving all of these like this is embarrassing.
 
I will only comment on the things I know about Nier Automata, if that's ok.
Nier Automata
  • Add
    • Intangibility and durability negation for all laser users (might be moot on the last part. I think most use lasers)
      • the laser passes through solid objects
        • They use the word 'pierce' but this one is the continuous laser stream rather than the single shot. So you can shoot it in a direction then rotate it to face the enemies and it'll go through all of them. I picked this particular one cuz even though both lasers go through all enemies, the single shot seems like it does it through hard penetration like a bullet.
        • Machine lasers do the same. Grab a spider and have him do a spin laser
I don't get why they should get Intangibility if the description specifically says the linear laser 'pierce' through multiple enemies, it says nothing about phasing or passing through physical objects. Even so, I agree with durability negation because I think it's more accurate.

I also agree with this.

[*]Tweaks
  • For the lesser YoRHa, they have Pod and plugin chips under their standard equipment. If that is the case I will give them a copy of the information
  • YoRHa commander isn't actually a YoRHa so she doesn't get the "can't run out of fuel" clause.
Also agree with all of this.

[*]Removals
  • Abstract Existence. Like I can see it with the Red Girls but throwing it onto everyone else? Yeah, maybe they are technically through the power of copy/paste but it feels gimmicky. Like saying a person has heat manipulation simply because they can produce body heat. It also gives a false impression of what it takes to kill them.
I don't know about totally remove it since, like you said, they technically have it, but maybe it can be specified?

  • Stuff like the concept manipulation. I imagine concept manipulation as in like if I killed death then no one can die because death is no longer a thing. By pasting it on also feels gimicky.
Agree with removing Concept Manipulation. I don't understand the reason for having this in the first place.

  • Resistance to Mind manipulation. This implies telepathy. Resistance to hacking should be enough. Remove these from any and all androids.
Also agree with removing Mind Manipulation because it implies a lot of things. Resistance to Hacking is indeed more accurate.

That's all I can say for now. I'm not so knowledgeable about Nier to comment on the rest of the points.
 
I don't get why they should get Intangibility if the description specifically says the linear laser 'pierce' through multiple enemies, it says nothing about phasing or passing through physical objects. Even so, I agree with durability negation because I think it's more accurate.
It comes from the idea of how it goes through them. If I compare it to say a bullet. A bullet goes in one end and out the other by destroying everything in its path. If I lined up a series of blocks and shot a bullet through them, the destruction of a block in the back requires the destruction of the block in the front first. And if the bullet fails to destroy the block, the blocks behind it are untouched. The laser damages all the blocks simultaneously and doesn't necessitate the destruction of one to reach the back. If it did then swinging the laser around would effectively be cutting everything in half.

I don't know about totally remove it since, like you said, they technically have it, but maybe it can be specified?
Hmm...I could toss it under tweaks but at the very least I think I'm more comfortable with Type 2 since they do have a body they can be directly affected by. YoRHa exist in body with backups in the network as opposed to say the Red Girls who exist in hacking space and simply control bodies.
 
Alright, so judgement call for Abstract Existence. I even touched base with some lore people to make sure I got it right.

So aliens deployed machines. Every machine was intelligent, can evolve, and could communicate with each other over the machine network which was their version of a radio frequency or the internet.
But both they and their network evolved and it got to the point the network itself became self aware. N2 is effectively living cyberspace or a living radio frequency.

So that justifies N2 having abstract (though conceptual? I mean I guess it can alter conceptual stuff within the bounds of the network itself. Or is that gimicky?)

That brings us to YoRHa. Each YoRHa black box holds their consciousness and has the same structure as the machine life forms. A structure that, may I remind you, managed to create a new living organism by having a bunch of them talk to each other through remote connections.

Does that justify YoRHa or the machines for being abstract?
 
Alright guys, I'd like to wrap this up. I didn't make any changes to my original proposal but two things have come up and I'll explain the reasoning/situation for.
If no one speaks up about it, I'm gonna have to go with everything looks good.

  1. Intangibility
    1. The lasers can go through enemies. All lasers can do this regardless of how thing they are or how thick they are. If I compare it to say a bullet. A bullet goes in one end and out the other by destroying everything in its path. If I lined up a series of blocks and shot a bullet through them, the destruction of a block in the back requires the destruction of the block in the front first. And if the bullet fails to destroy the block, the blocks behind it are untouched. The laser damages all the blocks simultaneously and doesn't necessitate the destruction of one to reach the back.
  2. Abstract Existence
    1. So how it got there in the first place put in simplest terms.
      1. aliens deployed machines. Every machine was intelligent, can evolve, and could communicate with each other over the machine network which was their version of a radio frequency or the internet.
        But both they and their network evolved and it got to the point the network itself became self aware. N2 is effectively living cyberspace or a living radio frequency. Basic their telepathy (not actual telepathy just using this as an example) became so advanced that the telepathic network became alive.
      2. The YoRHa conscious shares a similar structure to the machines that ultimately gave birth to this network. Does that make them abstract?
Let's hash this out so I can push these.
 
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Is there an explanation for the bullet intangibility? It could just be a game mechanic if it doesn't happen in cutscenes.

Everything else is fine.
 
That doesn't seem like intangibility to me, it just look like it just physically pierced through the enemy all together.

Besides intangibility, I think the OP is fine since I already approved of it elsewhere.
 
Though, one last attempt to push for it. The first clip is from the anime. The laser is much bigger than the enemy and still goes through. If it was the result of piercing, it would bisect the arm.
 
is Emil, Yorha and a couple others still able to qualify for the abilities you nixed or no? Because I still see the abilities on the pages.
 
is Emil, Yorha and a couple others still able to qualify for the abilities you nixed or no? Because I still see the abilities on the pages.
No. The Red Girl qualifies for some but the reason Emil and YoRHa still has it is because I'm slow in pushing it all up. I started from the top and am currently on So-Shi.
 
Does the dimensional manipulation still qualify for them? Because I'm doing a CRT on editing pages that have HDM with the old standards.
 
No, dimensional manipulation can go. If we find an exception we can put it back in. But until then, it cna be chucked out.
 
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