• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

New Testament 22 Updates

I agree I think the his intelligence should be upgraded as well. I suppose the only other question regarding that is whether it's an upgrade to Super intelligent or whether there is an argument to be had for Nigh-Omiscient or Nigh-Omiscience.
 
I'd say super-genius intelligent. "Nigh-omniscient" is usually reserved for top-tier cosmic abstracts. Accel has some great stats, but that still doesn't translate to knowing everything.
 
Wait, I thought Gungnir was already agreed on to be 1-C? Not only did it shatter nearly every Phase in reality, but it was able to (temporarily) resist the existence-wiping effects of Imagine Breaker for a few seconds. Even if the dimensional tiering doesn't pass through, it's still going to be about (2-B) limited multiversal anyways.
 
well trowing gungunier does not destroy infinite amount, just finite amount, while MG can go for infinite

that's why 2b would fit better than 1c
 
do we consider the 11 dimensions as each being a phase or phases and dimensions have no relation to each other?
 
Phases are not related to dimensions. The closest equivalent would be that of a 'universe'. (In fact, the only reason why Toaru has 11-D to begin with is because of teleportation espers) But aside from that, I'd lean towards 1-C spear, as long as we can dig up the proof.
 
Technically, besides Kuroko, there was also Killer Point and Awaki, both cited 11d when they faced Accel, and the Curtana Original proves the existence of a fourth spatial dimension anyway, but high 1-c is thanks to teleportation espers.
 
Gungnir destroyed the entirety of existence. Every single part of it. Phases or not.

The only "phase" that survived was the Hidden World and her own creation: Black World/The void after existence is destroyed.

Gungnir is High 1-C. Stop ignoring the fact that it literally destroyed the world as a whole.
 
Look, I'm not gonna choose sides here. Whether it's 2-B or 1-C doesn't really matter, as they are both Multiversal. The only issue we're faced with is whether or not we can prove Gungnir destroyed the 6th-11th spatial dimensions. I'm actually rooting for High Complex just as much as you SchroKatze, but we need hard evidence for it to pass through the CRT. Can you provide it for us?
 
Othinus is High 1-C. And... She claimed that her power can control every phase and dimension (note the difference). Gungnir is stated multuple times to control/manipulate and contain Othinus' power.


"It was Gungnir.

It was the symbol required to control her massive power as a Magic God.

"I am sick of trying to crush an idiot with the world."

She narrowed her one eye.

"If you will not break, then I will kill you."


That was Gungnir.

That spiritual item helped control a Magic God's power. It was the key to it all. It brought about changes to the world while ignoring the wishes of the very people it affected.


That weapon of the gods had toyed with the entire world and cornered him in that infinite hell.

"Gungnir!?" shouted Othinus.
 
In other words, the instant that lance left Othinus's hands, the world would be blown to pieces.

Time returned to normal.

Kamijou once more felt space spread out around him. As the lance was fired with tremendous force, the "happy world" was smashed to pieces as if space itself was being torn apart. As a fragment of the world approached with the force of a raging wave, it took on the shape of a giant lance. The walls of all the phases were crushed, transformed into a swirl of deadly weapons resembling sharp shards of glass, and approached their pitiful target as if to swallow him whole.

Everything was ripped up.

The black labyrinth, which had used up all of its possibilities, showed itself.

Magic God Othinus had the ability to create, so she was technically not destroying anything.
 
Also, when describing the failed copies of Gungnir, the narration mentioned how the true Gungnir can recreate the entire world, while the copies/mini/failed ones couldn't:


Her lance could not control a Magic God's power.

Nor could it recreate the world.

It instead focused on the head god's attack. It took that single fragment of the great power of the gods and allowed a human to make a high-quality recreation of that phenomenon which was included in the lance.
 
Great! Can you give me the quote where she directly states she can control "every phase and dimension"? I'll just add it up into the flaming-sword comparison as further justification.
 
Again, the narration talking about Gungnir destroying everything and leaving only the Black World behind:


After the lance's attack had blown everything away, only the black world remained. The cracks spreading from Othinus's back ate into that entire world. A strange symbol spread out seemingly endlessly. It resembled neither wings nor a flower. Did her power extend to the farthest reaches of the world? Was the world ultimately a part of her? Gungnir had brought about a positive territory. The opposite position was a negative territory.
 
DestinyDude0 said:
Great! Can you give me the quote where she directly states she can control "every phase and dimension"? I'll just add it up into the flaming-sword comparison as further justification.
Click to expand...
"Please wait!! He…he really did bend the entire world before my eyes! It was like…like this… It's hard to explain, but the walls, floor, and ceiling all turned into weapons, tunnels appeared in the people in the way, and they all attacked me at once!"

"Have you forgotten?" Othinus sounded almost utterly exasperated. "This is the Dianoid. The entire building is made of carbon materials. That means you don't need control over every phase, every dimension, and every element to manipulate everything around you. A magician with control over carbon and nothing else can pull that one off."


Othinus was refering o her original power as a Magic God and explaining that a magician with control over carbon could "control the world" (not in the same sense or level as a Magic God). And considering that since Vol 1 or 2 Magic Gods are described as being able to freely manipulate the entirety of the world, from basic things like elemental manipulation to change the laws that define reality itself, it reinforces her statement.
 
Sinply put, gungnir is 100% of Othinus' attack power as zensum proved above with a scan says literally that. If Othinus is high 1-C then Gungnir is High 1-c. Coronzons 'magick' is rivalled by a magic gods lance (gungnir) so it is also high 1-c. Accel reflects this attack so his vector shield also becomes high 1-c.

So i think we are all done. Overwhelming majority agrees with this.

Tier changes look like this Post HS, BW and WW Accel go to At least PL likely far higher via fighting nerf gods

Nerf gods can fight with coronzon so they scale to At least PL likely far higher.

Aleister can also fight evenly with nerf gods so he gets at least pl likely far higher. Mathers scales to Aleister aswell.

Platinum wings Accel is Solar system level.

I think thats all the tier changes.
 
Can someone please notify antvasima so we can get profiles unlocked? I would but I'm at work and my breaks over
 
be aware of not creating contradiction, gungnir can't really destroy the phases, that's the whole point, if it could she did not need IB for restoring her old world
 
Malox1696 said:
be aware of not creating contradiction, gungnir can't really destroy the phases, that's the whole point, if it could she did not need IB for restoring her old world
Click to expand...
I'm sorry what? That doesn't even make any sense, Gungnir's entire power revolves around shattering the Phases. The reason why she needed IB was to restore TOUMA's old world, not her old world. Othinus completely forgot what her old world was even like, so how did you come to that conclusion?
 
TIHYDDWBE said:
Can someone please notify antvasima so we can get profiles unlocked? I would but I'm at work and my breaks over
Click to expand...
Are you sure Platinum wing is Solar System level? I thought we were waiting on Don'tTalk to do the calc for us.
 
donttalk said it was more than likely to be 4-b so it's probably going to be that. we can always update it afterwards whenever he does the calc

@Malox I don't think we are even reading the same series i'm afraid..
 
no u guys are not reading the same serie, IB was needed to use as a palette knife, if gungunir could destroy all phases that means 1 she would destroy her own magic system she revolved around 2 here is the quote "In other words, the instant that lance left Othinus's hands, the world would be blown to pieces.
Time returned to normal.
Kamijou once more felt space spread out around him.
As the lance was fired with tremendous force, the "happy world" was smashed to pieces as if space itself was being torn apart. As a fragment of the world approached with the force of a raging wave, it took on the shape of a giant lance. The walls of all the phases were crushed, transformed into a swirl of deadly weapons resembling sharp shards of glass, and approached their pitiful target as if to swallow him whole.
Everything was ripped up.
The black labyrinth, which had used up all of its possibilities, showed itself.

Magic God Othinus had the ability to create, so she was technically not destroying anything. This may have been a change brought about by adding a new phase into the world. Nevertheless, it was blatantly obvious what the scene before Kamijou's eyes would produce. It was the same as referring to the utter destruction of a luxurious palace as "creating a pile of rubble". This was undeniably a torrent of destruction."

MGs can't "destroy" phases, they don't have the knowledge to do it even if they have even more power than aiwass and coronzon
 
Mmm Hokaze should be higher than wall level, given that test she had when she was younger smashing a machine that could stop a truck when run into it and being in the range of level 5 AP.

Anyway has Anyone msg'd antvasima so we can go ahead?
 
Malox... She wasn't destroying in the "common sense". She was '''creating the destruction of everything by making a phase that ends other phases and leaving nothing but a void/canvas'''. Magic Gods can destroy phases and did so multiple times.
 
they can paint it white but they can't actually destroy them, they can change the existing color to a certain extent tho

she would just put another phase over that say "destruction" but the other would still be there, she can change the color or add new but she can't actually remove them

u do understand that if she could actually destroy phases she would not need IB right ?
 
but it literally says MG can't destroy anything directly, only through changing or adding phases

Magic God Othinus had the ability to create, so she was technically not destroying anything.

The result is the same
 
"You added in and removed phase after phase. …And this was the work of a god. It was probably so close to perfect that no human could tell the difference. But as a god, 'close to perfect' wasn't good enough for you."

Removing Phases = Destroying Phases.
 
right next they say : "According to Ollerus, Imagine Breaker is an accumulation of the hopes of all magicians. He said it's a reference point to return the world to normal after it is twisted by their desires. I don't know if that's its true origin, but it can be used like that. You could say this is the other card you could play. It represents the original world. Instead of adding on another layer of paint, you can use this like a palette knife to slowly peel away the previous layers."

"Do you really think I would have done all this if that would work?"
The lance creaked slightly in Othinus's grasp.
Her face showed she had treaded deeply into that territory.
"It didn't work. I tried it and it didn't work!! Even with a palette knife to peel away the paint and even when I peeled it away in extremely thin layers, I wasn't satisfied with the result. There is no longer a convenient path leading back to the way things were. The age can only advance. If what I want is not before my eyes, then my only option is to create the next world!!"

she needs IB to remove them she can only paint over them, the effect is the same, but she can't physically remove them without IB
 
Umm you skipped over the full passage and posted a quote from the next page?

"I don't know the details of this whole 'phase' thing, but you have the ability to freely change the shape of the world like clay. Due to that, you completely forgot what world you originally lived in. You desperately tried to create a world based on the scenery you remembered. You added in and removed phase after phase. …And this was the work of a god. It was probably so close to perfect that no human could tell the difference. But as a god, 'close to perfect' wasn't good enough for you." After seeing the world she had created with her own power, she had turned back without meaning to. Given that, she must have feared her own power. If she had truly accepted it with nothing but joy, she would not have tried to turn back."

It is clearly her power which can add and remove phases, which she attempted to do after she couldn't remember what her world was like. She tried to use IB aswell to do the same thing as it references the "orginal world" but it still wasn't to her likening.

"It didn't work. I tried it and it didn't work!! Even with a palette knife to peel away the paint and even when I peeled it away in extremely thin layers, I wasn't satisfied with the result."

Regardless this is derailing and has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
Well anyway either "destroying" or not, gungnir when launched destroy a finite amount of phases, so it should be 2b right ? 1c implies infinite right ?
 
Technically not everything is destroyed, touma is still there, gravity still works, he can breathe, her system of magic still works like all that of the other MG

BTW all phases are still finite number, while a MG can change and create phases infinite time

as i always say, let's try to not create logical fallacy or inconsistency in-universe

edit: even later in the novel MG always talk about adding phases or changing, never destroy, the destruction part is all from touma point of view, the only time people with knowledge talk about destruction of phases is with coronzon or aleister that use a different system from the MGs
 
Simply put, the number of phases is irrelevant to the H1-C rating. Othinus states altering the universe requires control over the phases, dimensions and elements...etc. When Othinus manipulates the world to create the end of the universe Black World is left in the same way when Gungnir manipulates the world after thrown.

What else is next to discuss?
 
oh ok if the number is irrelevant 1 c is fine but it should be noted that is still infinite time less powerful than a MG

in this case touma IB should be upgraded too
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Churronzon
  • Locked
Toaru Aleister CRT
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
XDragnoir
XDragnoir
XDragnoir
[Toaru] Alice Anotherbible's Resistances
2
Replies
68
Views
3K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Aseka
12-D A Certain Magical Index
5 6 7
Replies
248
Views
7K
StrangerALover
StrangerALover
ShadeyD
Magic Gods ability additions
2
Replies
65
Views
6K
Damage3245
Damage3245
FantaRin_The_First
  • Locked
Kamijou Touma's Minor CRT (Toaru)
Replies
15
Views
1K
FantaRin_The_First
FantaRin_The_First
Back
Top