• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

New Testament 22 Updates

@Malox

I think you are just talking nonsense now and I'm done here. I think you are just looking for excuse. Next you're going to try and tell us that Accel didn't reflect Coronzon's universal attack or that he shouldn't upgraded to 5-B.

The text completely debunks your "it was only figurivtely" BS. On top of that I have not seen one person agree with your assumption either. If someone does I will debate more but right now it's your opinion against everyone else's and the text itself.
 
Cause accel has no real way to shake the galaxy with his power, im realistic here, we know kamachi like figurative speech a lot (ot 20 accel world shattering scream)

his barrier reflection limit should be completely removed in my opinion

what accelerator primarily did here is adding the 3rd tree, if that created the effect of shaking the galaxy or not that might be debated, but it can't be translated to AP and he can't create a new tree again
 
Malox... Othinus' Gungnir is different from any other copy of it. Its literally made to help her with her power. Its not like Brun's or Levinia's version.

Othinus' Gungnir is on the same level as her.
 
Where did he cause the tremor with a physical blow ?

and as i said adding the tree is a one time thing he can't add another
 
Malox1696 said:
Where did he cause the tremor with a physical blow ?
Click to expand...
Therock
Seriously though this topic is concluded. All I would really like to see is what people think of Othinus' Gungnir being High Complex multiversal and any concerns people may have with that then we are pretty much done.
 
Guys so u understand I don't want to nerf or overbuff a character, i want to avoid logical fallacy and inconsistency in the serie

accel added the 3rd tree trough the help of 545 and the WILL, he can only do it 1 time he can't add another, the addition of a new tree messes up most existing rules in the universe so even the one used by coronzon, even if the addition of the tree created a chain reaction that shook the galaxy accel can't directly use the power to harm someone, coronzon soul was pushed out thanks to aleister spell and accel creating this new set of rules+ the power that generated from creating the tree

the only thing we should add is limited law manipulation or reality warping for now about this, it's obvs his new wings should give him more, but we don't know for now


for the gungunir topic it should be 2B (as trowing it can't "destroy" infinite number of phases) but in that case touma IB should be updated to 2b too
 
@Malox

I'm just shaking my head at this point. The text completely debunks what you just said. You have entered the point now where you are completely ignoring textual evidence.

As TIHYDDWBE said this topic is concluded.

On Gungair right now I agree that it should be complex multiversal fra.
 
Sigh.

For the sake of vs battles, being able to add a new set of rules still counts as an attack. This site isn't a story where the aftereffects of the Tree are still felt. if Accel can do it once, he can do it over and over again for seperate fights.

Although yeah, Touma's Imagine Breaker should be 1-C. Not only did Gungnir destroy multiple Phases, but IB negated it immeditely afterwards, so it should be comparable. Another feat suporting it is Othinus using IB to restore reality to it's original state.
 
i mean't he can't literally add another tree, there is only 1 misaka network (even in battle he can only pull it off once), now the power he gains from having access to that tree are another story, but we don't know for now

i do understand but how do u translate it in an attack ? he could even shake the universe too if he wants but it does nothing to anything inside, for now the only application is forced astral projection (although aleister spell helped) and messing with fundamental rules unknown to us (although it would be difficult to translate to other universes)
 
@Malox

Just stop. At this point I don't know even why you are trying to continue this argument when so far no one has agreed with you and people have debunked your theory at the same time.

Let's just move on because you are just unneededly repeating yourself at this point.


Actually it did effect the inside as well. I'm guessing you mean the the planet itself.

But then there was a sudden change.

It was like the beating of a giant heart.

Who would have understood what it was if they were only told it had come from Coronzon's body? It was a deep and low noise that seemed to shake the temple itself. Not even beating on a drum taller than a person would have shaken the air to this extent.

"Kah…ah!!"

and you then have this.

Just then, Villian felt something invisible hit her in the chest.

No, she was not the only one.

"What was…that?"

"The field is shaking, but it does not seem this was done with Curtana's cutting power."
 
Anyway moving on.

Should it be mentioned that Aleister can control the AAA and that Coronzon can hijack the AAA? Techically the two can use the AAA as a weapon whenever they need to espeically Aleister.
 
I don't understand how Aleister plays into this at all. His excocism spell explicitly failed to work. it's not like it was constantly activating. Aleister did nothing. All Accel needs is Will+Puzzle+himself.
 
So, 99% of the OP has been concluded already. I want to ask tho, how are we going to calc the Holistic attack? Multi-stellar or galaxy, or what?

Also, if Gungnir is 1-C, and it was compared to Flaming_Sword, how will Accel's Reflection compare? Is it 2-C or 1-C?
 
If the Flaming_Sword is 1-C due to the comparision with Gungair then logically the reflection should be 1-C as well. Same if the Gungair is agreed to be 2-C then the reflection should be 2-C.

So basically whatever is decided with Gungair and the Flaming_sword then Reflection should scale to it. That's my take on it anyway.
 
People say debunk but i still don't understand how to translate the galaxy shaking to raw AP, this seems similar to gabriel, he can move the stars but he can't strike with tier 4 power, same logic should be applied here, he can shake the galaxy and messes with rules and have minor effect, he can't actually use it to strike with tier 4 power

aleister is connected to the AAA but it does have some limitation (for example he wanted mikoto dead, but he couldn't just control the AAA she was wearing to do it)
 
@Malox

Again just stop. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

@Destinydude0

Maybe wait for Donttalk? Although everything else seems to be concluded except the calc and the Gungair thing.
 
Malox1696 said:
People say debunk but i still don't understand how to translate the galaxy shaking to raw AP, this seems similar to gabriel, he can move the stars but he can't strike with tier 4 power, same logic should be applied here, he can shake the galaxy and messes with rules and have minor effect, he can't actually use it to strike with tier 4 power
aleister is connected to the AAA but it does have some limitation (for example he wanted mikoto dead, but he couldn't just control the AAA she was wearing to do it)
Click to expand...
And yet Gabriel has a 4-C rating for Astro In Hand. It's enough of a precedent to get an AP tier.
 
yes but he cant's apply it to vector control

something like "tier 4 by adding a new tree and law to the world" although again it would be difficult to transform that energy in striking power
 
I didn't know you were Kamachi, Malox, tell us more on how Accel's vector control is suppose to work.

This is Platinum wing Accel not base so the above argument is irrevlant. He has done inexplicable thing with the other wings that can't be explained, it's the same here. Why are you carrying this on?
 
cause as i said the shaking galaxy is not combat applicable, u are free to explain me how as i seriously don't understand it, if it seems like im repeating myself is because i don't see how using reality warping/rule changing to shake galaxy translate to raw AP
 
Malox1696 said:
i would agree if someone explain to me
Click to expand...
The mechanism behind the galaxy-shaping doesn't matter. Personal Realities by nature are already low-tier reality warping, but we can still assign an AP based off of the aftermath. Same idea with the wings. If the Kinetic Energy of a galaxy being physically shaken is calc'd, it can be converted to AP. Reality Warping or not, we still have a result that can be quantified.

Got it? I literally do not know how to make this even simpler. This is as basic as you can get.
 
well ok i'll wait donttalk and lazy

btw i said aleister started the astral projection cause it says " All to force an astral projection initiated by an external third party. "

i think they mean aleister as a third party or who ?
 
@Malox

Aleister had nothing to do with it, the text even says that.

"No," said Lilith through the trumpet toy in her mouth. "This was not me. And it is time you realized that those with a century-old grudge are not the only ones fighting here. Those who are facing the world and carrying their own souls are just as qualified and entitled to work toward their own survival. Simply put, there are no side characters in this world. Just like you are not one. You thought you could see every part of the world while holed up in your tiny room, but you were mistaken about that."

This was not Aleister Crowley, Mina Mathers, or Baby Lilith.

Then who?

Who was it?

"It…can't be!"

It was Accel who forced her soul out of her body, no one else.
 
but who is this third party that initiated it ? obv not accel as he is the one finishing it

who is this external third party ?
 
The external party was the third tree and the external pressure that Accel was applying to her.

"I don't know what that means, so I'll get right to the point. Qliphah Puzzle 545 has told me most everything. You're such a pain in the ass because you have a physical body of flesh and blood. So I'll shift that aside and cut it away."

"Are you trying to apply a powerful external pressure to remove my soul from this temporary body!?"

The third tree removes her from the Abyss and Accel's attack on her removes her soul from her flesh and blood body. The tree did the initial bit by removing her from the Abyss while Accel did the rest by forcing her out of her body. I probably explained that horribly.

I don't even know where the Aleister stuff comes from to be quite honest. The text couldn't make it any clear if it tried that the one who removed Coronzon's soul from her body was Accel and no one else, well Will and Qliphah helped to of course. This can't even be debated. No where is it implied that Aleister has anything to do with it in fact it's stated otherwise.
 
no i literally mean

All to force an astral projection initiated by an external third party.

Maybe a js06 miss translation ?

as this imply someone already started the astral projection before accel
 
I just explained that. The intial third party was the tree by adding the tree into the world.

It couldn't be made any clearer that Aleister had nothing to do with it. That is made perfectly clear. I don't know why you are trying to use a singlar line to disprove very clear pieces of text. It's not even like it was implied that Aleister has nothing to do with it but right out stated that he didn't. You can't argue with facts especally explict facts.
 
it may not be aleister but it says "external" so someone not related to accel at the moment (so no 545 or will) unless it was miss translation
 
It also says that Accel was trying to use an external pressure to remove Coronzon's soul from her body. Are you going to tell me that wasn't Accel at all because of the whole "external" thing?

No one else apart from Accel, Qliphah and Will/the third tree had anything to do with Coronzon being removed from the Abyss and her soul being removed from her body.
 
But it is likely 545 and Will. That's just how sentence-structure works. From the narrator's POV the Clonoth duo are the "external 3rd party" and Accel finished it. Regardless, this has nothing to do with the CRT. Like, at all. Can we please get back on topic? Or at least bring this to PM's? I don't want to spam the page full of unnecesary side conversations.
 
@Destinydude0

I'm done anyway. What topics still need to be discussed? I know the calc still need to be done for the 4-B feat and I'm not sure if the Gungair debate is conclusive or inconclusive.

I think everything else has been agreed with though.

I'm unsure on one thing. Will Accel be having an intelligence upgrade or not?
 
I vote yes. After all, knowledge is knowledge. With his mind being a 3-way neural link between Puzzle 545, the Will of the Network and himself, I'd say that whatever occultic knowledge they know, Accel should also know by proxy. It just makes sense that way.

In addition, with the entire archive of Academy City knowledge at his disposal as the new Chairman, that easily lends itself to outperforming the combined nations of Earth. With both magical and scientific intelligence boosts, it satisfies the conditions of a super-genius, much like Aleister currently has.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Churronzon
  • Locked
Toaru Aleister CRT
2
Replies
42
Views
3K
XDragnoir
XDragnoir
XDragnoir
[Toaru] Alice Anotherbible's Resistances
2
Replies
68
Views
3K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Aseka
12-D A Certain Magical Index
5 6 7
Replies
248
Views
7K
StrangerALover
StrangerALover
ShadeyD
Magic Gods ability additions
2
Replies
65
Views
6K
Damage3245
Damage3245
FantaRin_The_First
  • Locked
Kamijou Touma's Minor CRT (Toaru)
Replies
15
Views
1K
FantaRin_The_First
FantaRin_The_First
Back
Top