NEVERNESS TO EVERNESS DISCUSSION THREAD

[Darkmon_cns]

Collect snow is one of the last 2 side quests I have to do. Before I do it (just for fun I've chosen to save it for last) going in I'm assuming the anomaly dosen't actually fight, which basically means it probably won't scale to anyone, idk if we've actually decided we can definitely scale anomalys based on there level or not. But if he's not given one I don't see a way to scale him. Granted this is just me getting my thoughts out there before the quest.

As for usable feats we should calc the waves sea prisoner throws at you from his splashes in the boss fight sense he dose jump on you as an attack. He also smashes into a building in the in a anomaly realm in the intro of first fighting him, so that could also ve calced.

Other options I think is calcing morpha changing areas im his boss fight, the energy it would take to move all that matrial around and making those large rooms. And I suspect the sea prisoners sheer size could get us to tier 8. He is also referenced in his file to likly being an actual whale orginally so I think a world exists where we could justify using the weight and size of the actual animal if it's vastly bigger then it's in game appearance and attribute the differences to technical limitations.

 

[Monosc]

Collect snow is one of the last 2 side quests I have to do. Before I do it (just for fun I've chosen to save it for last) going in I'm assuming the anomaly dosen't actually fight, which basically means it probably won't scale to anyone, idk if we've actually decided we can definitely scale anomalys based on there level or not. But if he's not given one I don't see a way to scale him. Granted this is just me getting my thoughts out there before the quest.

You are right there are no fights but I think we can still use it to scale with the classes. We know from the glossar that the classes get progressively stronger which is also consistent with what the Wertheimer Index measures because we know it measures the deviation from base reality and base reality normally shouldn`t have any supernatural things which is why Espers and Anomalies have a score that deviates a lot from 0. The higher the class the higher the Wertheimer score which means they should be stronger because they deviate farther from reality.

Although the quest doesn`t give Puff a class rating we can infer what his class approximately should be. We know from Morphix that anomaly citizens that are of higher class are under supervision which Puff isn`t. So he should be of a lower class than IV which means every anomaly of class IV or higher should scale to him.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

You are right there are no fights but I think we can still use it to scale with the classes. We know from the glossar that the classes get progressively stronger which is also consistent with what the Wertheimer Index measures because we know it measures the deviation from base reality and base reality normally shouldn`t have any supernatural things which is why Espers and Anomalies have a score that deviates a lot from 0. The higher the class the higher the Wertheimer score which means they should be stronger because they deviate farther from reality.

Although the quest doesn`t give Puff a class rating we can infer what his class approximately should be. We know from Morphix that anomaly citizens that are of higher class are under supervision which Puff isn`t. So he should be of a lower class than IV which means every anomaly of class IV or higher should scale to him.

Uaa issue i just reread morphix's profile on the anomaly files and it's pretty explicit- it's being observed because it's control over its own relam and intelligence makes it an extreme threat not just because he's class/level 4.

Think about it the profile already mentions he can trap people in his realm and he sets the rules for entry if he wanted to I don't think much is stopping him from trapping and starving the entire city (maybe running out of room to put them all?)

 

[Monosc]

Uaa issue i just reread morphix's profile on the anomaly files and it's pretty explicit- it's being observed because it's control over its own relam and intelligence makes it an extreme threat not just because he's class/level 4.

Think about it the profile already mentions he can trap people in his realm and he sets the rules for entry if he wanted to I don't think much is stopping him from trapping and starving the entire city (maybe running out of room to put them all?)

I mean Morphix is the only high level anomaly citizen that we know of so he is the only reference point we have. But from a logical perspective it would make sense to monitor high level anomaly citizens because of the potential damage they can cause.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

I mean Morphix is the only high level anomaly citizen that we know of so he is the only reference point we have. But from a logical perspective it would make sense to monitor high level anomaly citizens because of the potential damage they can cause.

Hum well I think because it dosen't mention that as a reason in risk assessment it's indication it dosen't normally do that- but this should at least be a enough for a "possibly" rating for class/level 4 anomalys and above. I rather expect when we eventually see the final form of tidal ascension it'll cause it to rain across the full city and that will be class 4 or 5, so I suspect possibly will ultimately be a temporary measure


saying all this before even playing the quest- o well I admit sense it's one of the last I'm dragging my feet doing other things in game but I'll get to it.

 

[Monosc]

Hum well I think because it dosen't mention that as a reason in risk assessment it's indication it dosen't normally do that- but this should at least be a enough for a "possibly" rating for class/level 4 anomalys and above. I rather expect when we eventually see the final form of tidal ascension it'll cause it to rain across the full city and that will be class 4 or 5, so I suspect possibly will ultimately be a temporary measure

I think the reason why they put so much emphasis on him is because normally they don`t have any anomalies of a higher class as anomaly citizens because they are rare and typically don`t live among humans.

They only have Morphix under special supervision because he has high intelligence (which all anomaly citizens have) AND class IV power. Puff the snowman also has high intelligence and strong abilities.
Since Puff`s intelligence is equal to Morphix (from what we can see from both) it can`t be the disqualifier for why he isn`t under supervision which means the only other difference would be their strength which directly correlates to their class which means Puff`s class should be lower than Morphixs class.

But it is too early to properly establish scaling for the verse since we don`t know most things so as you said most things will just be temporary till we know more.

 

[Monosc]

saying all this before even playing the quest- o well I admit sense it's one of the last I'm dragging my feet doing other things in game but I'll get to it.

Same I didn`t even clear all anomaly commissions because of the Lonely PLayer anomaly it is geniunely one of the worst things in the NTE. I looked up a guide for it and it literally consists of 12 seperate mini quests and one of the first ones is bugged in my game (a NPC required to clear it doesn`t appear for me) so I can`t even clear it

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Ya I'm fine with using a possibility for a result of the snow calc

~~if it turns out snow dosen't yeld high results for some reason I'll laugh alot~~ I say that ironically but if there are no visible clouds that may be the case.

Anyway one thing I wonder, if you found and deal with the nexus of a anomaly like level proliferation would elevators stop being effected for a rime? i mean yhe bosses got there nexus sealed the first time, but I have to wonder are they really there on repeat fights? Or are they like the discirbion of anomaly pilgrimage implies- fragments we are somehow able to interact with to redo the fight.

The nightmare hospital is the commission I'm avoiding lol. But even that only has 4 endings. Haven't picked lonely player yet interesting how dense some of the commissions are.

 

[Monosc]

Ya I'm fine with using a possibility for a result of the snow calc

~~if it turns out snow dosen't yeld high results for some reason I'll laugh alot~~ I say that ironically but if there are no visible clouds that may be the case.

If it doesn`t then we will just use creation feats and use the beyond the rail cutscene to wank everyone to 3-B

Anyway one thing I wonder, if you found and deal with the nexus of a anomaly like level proliferation would elevators stop being effected for a rime? i mean yhe bosses got there nexus sealed the first time, but I have to wonder are they really there on repeat fights? Or are they like the discirbion of anomaly pilgrimage implies- fragments we are somehow able to interact with to redo the fight.

Who knows maybe we are all schizophrenic and have hallucinations

 

[Darkmon_cns]

If it doesn`t then we will just use creation feats and use the beyond the rail cutscene to wank everyone to 3-B

Unironically there's a chance that was just real space

 

[Darkmon_cns]

You can ram right into a wall on a 150 something motorbike and get up just fine. That must be a durability feat

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Ok gaming into a car actually did damage maybe the wall can't be taken literally

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Hau found a working piano on the far side of the unheard shore

 

[Darkmon_cns]

This is not a painting having only 2 rooms felt small, and then you say it's finally over? I wonder if this commission ended up getting cut down humm

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Well started on puff, he says he "needs enough cold air to freeze (city name)" I just can't spell the city's name

So I guess it isn't just food...but idk just start the quest I'll keep adding to this as I go and post when I'm done.

Also interesting first time biker gang is acknowledged in a story set in the present I think, anf it's not inherently negative? Tho they did attack me right when they spawned still talking about the snowman lolz a bit odd wonder if there is a way for that not to happen? Prison maybe?

Another issue with former aurgments i noticed. Puff only just started existing this summer (whole game takes place in summer because of this quest?) And the fact there isn't a anomaly file on him.. is kinda evidence that the Bureau is unaware of him and considering doggo (morphix) was living with a human well not being found out for over a year.. means puff probably could of gone without being investigated sense he wasn't causing trouble and he hasn't been around for long.

Reference to being the god racer. I like that Mc is good at racing

He got all the cold air he needed from a truck.. the issue here is kinda, that is unbelievable, but he also said he needed to gather enough air to freeze the city to make it snow for the city, not that he had to get himself full or anything like that, even if how he got it in nonesense his story is he needs to gather the cold air not that he makes it. Starting suspect there will be no clouds when it snows. Uaa essentially if there aren't clouds, the feat is...kinda nothing

Love that puff gose (you own some appartments!) The wealth side of this game is funny like that. Someone with as much property as the player character where I live in real life would probably be the richest gal around cotton candy snow? Wh where is this heading?

Well it snowing end... the sky is blue there are actually fewer clouds in the sky then the normal sunny day sky box...sorry guys but I'm pretty sure most of the KE from weather feats come from the clouds so... I'm not sure if this feat really means anything but quest isn't done yet hope!

Snow is ice cream i don't see why it would fall from clouds but a couple did mention there sunscreen business going bad.. but the guy dosen't seem worried maybe he noticed there aren't clouds up there? This isn't looking too good...

Why are we exclusively seeing negative results of the snow the ice cream placed closed up shop??? I'd buy ice creme in winter!!

And mint confirms an anomaly using there ablity lasting this long at this range is rare and that the breuo has no idea whats causing the snow... so that confirms they don't even have a file on puffs anomaly.

And puff was perm nullified sad...

But my verdict is uaa ya sorry I don't think this is usable? Sense the beruo didn't know he existed we can't say he was below level 4 because he wasn't being watched and ice creme has no reason to rain from clouds so.. I'm not sure a calculation works for this? Sorry should of just played it sooner and said all this to save us some discussion time.

 

[Monosc]

Another issue with former aurgments i noticed. Puff only just started existing this summer (whole game takes place in summer because of this quest?) And the fact there isn't a anomaly file on him.. is kinda evidence that the Bureau is unaware of him and considering doggo (morphix) was living with a human well not being found out for over a year.. means puff probably could of gone without being investigated sense he wasn't causing trouble and he hasn't been around for long.

I mean if we compare Morphix with Puff It should be quite obvious why one wasn't detected. Morphix lived as a normal dog without using his powers while Puff is a living snowman who publicly offers his powers to cool people down. So either the bureau is completely incompetent and completely blind or they found him and judged that he isn't high enough of a threat.

He got all the cold air he needed from a truck.. the issue here is kinda, that is unbelievable, but he also said he needed to gather enough air to freeze the city to make it snow for the city, not that he had to get himself full or anything like that, even if how he got it in nonesense his story is he needs to gather the cold air not that he makes it.

The energy should be from him because the energy coming from the cold air is miniscule. Maybe he just said that to spend time with MC or he has a psychological barrier or something.

Well it snowing end... the sky is blue there are actually fewer clouds in the sky then the normal sunny day sky box...sorry guys but I'm pretty sure most of the KE from weather feats come from the clouds so... I'm not sure if this feat really means anything but quest isn't done yet hope!

Well curse the company because they didn't want to allocate enough budget for a side quest. Anyways you can also use the temperature drop for the calc so it should still be usable.

Snow is ice cream i don't see why it would fall from clouds but a couple did mention there sunscreen business going bad.. but the guy dosen't seem worried

Because he liked the snow so... Also his partner even scolded him for not worrying.

Why are we exclusively seeing negative results of the snow the ice cream placed closed up shop??? I'd buy ice creme in winter!!

Fr

And mint confirms an anomaly using there ablity lasting this long at this range is rare and that the breuo has no idea whats causing the snow... so that confirms they don't even have a file on puffs anomaly.

It doesn't. It only confirms that they can't pinpoint which anomaly caused it. It's like someone murdered another person and the police doesn't know who killed him even though they have a file of the killer somewhere in a government database.

And puff was perm nullified sad...

But my verdict is uaa ya sorry I don't think this is usable? Sense the beruo didn't know he existed we can't say he was below level 4 because he wasn't being watched and ice creme has no reason to rain from clouds so.. I'm not sure a calculation works for this? Sorry should of just played it sooner and said all this to save us some discussion time.

FRA we can still say that he below IV imo and like I said we can use the temperature drop as well or at least the reference page on the weather feats page says so.

 

[Monosc]

You can ram right into a wall on a 150 something motorbike and get up just fine. That must be a durability feat

Well if other games use gameplay mechanics to scale and give abilities why shouldn't we do the same? So ig we could use it

 

[Monosc]

Unironically there's a chance that was just real space

They said that the train is traveling through anomalous realms so I am sure these galaxies were anomalous realms. So let's wank every single anomaly to 3-B

 

[Mbpoops]

They said that the train is traveling through anomalous realms so I am sure these galaxies were anomalous realms. So let's wank every single anomaly to 3-B

Everywhere i go…

Ts gonna become hoyoverse 2 ✌

 

[Monosc]

Everywhere i go…

Ts gonna become hoyoverse 2 ✌

Maybe we will outscale hoyo in a few patches

 

[DenzOnigiri]

Maybe we will outscale hoyo in a few patches

wdym few patch

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Cut.

Your right about the KE drop I hadn't thought about that

 

[Monosc]

wdym few patch

Well hoyo gets a downgrade every few weeks so...

 

[Darkmon_cns]

wdym few patch

King in yellow was refernced in the opening. So it's possible

 

[DenzOnigiri]

no word for this

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Paying attention to some anonly files and descriptions anomaly relam seeks to also refer to greatly altered locations in real space, like the knight teddy bear and his castle area.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Ok that platforming commission was actually really really cool I hope they add more like that


You know i was holding off on it thinking it was some weird abstract puzzle, but it was actually really fun

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Hum the space time projector commission has a note that implies the anomaly class isn't rated purly on it "wave output" but actually by how dangerous one is... which futher muddy the waters about if class is useful for scaling or not.

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Ok what is the list of calculations we came to?


Cooling a city in summer (may not scale to anyone it depends)

The sea prisoners waves and the KE from him jumping on you

The pillers of the water enemys you fight in the auction quests sense they hit you with those

The KE from hitting a wall at 150 k/h and getting up fine

Anything else?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Oh my God see prisoner is a reference to Moby Dick -it's said itnwas being chased for forty days like in the book I think

Anyway I tried seeing if what kind of whale it was at first was mentioned but no dice and I'm pretty sure it's already bigger then the smallest whales so... I guess whoever dose the calculation will have to figure out it's size and weight?...that sucks are we gona have to do that?

 

[DenzOnigiri]

The KE from hitting a wall at 150 k/h and getting up fine

how do you even calculate this without any precise age/weight of mc?

 

[Darkmon_cns]

how do you even calculate this without any precise age/weight of mc?

I mean there human there are surly standard assumptions for this labeling them early 20 something shouldn't be hard at all

Getting a weight for the whale would probably be harder

 

[DenzOnigiri]

I mean there human there are surly standard assumptions for this labeling them early 20 something shouldn't be hard at all

is it acceptable to use uncertain proof/height?

Getting a weight for the whale would probably be harder

I'm not there yet, what's wrong with it

 

[Darkmon_cns]

is it acceptable to use uncertain proof/height?

I'm not there yet, what's wrong with it

Oo my apologizes i didn't realize you were attempting to do it

There should be a thread for calculation advice, I'll try to find it for you we can ask there, but i believe the standard would be to have a low end and high end based on there probable weight

Uaa I just can't imagine how you'd fine the weight of a whale when you don't know what kind of whale it is I'd think you'd need ti figure out it's actually size then compare it to a real whale hat falls in that range but this us jus try speculation if you have an idea that's great

 

[Monosc]

Hum the space time projector commission has a note that implies the anomaly class isn't rated purly on it "wave output" but actually by how dangerous one is... which futher muddy the waters about if class is useful for scaling or not.

Can you send the full statement pls? I can't seem to find it. But it doesn't seem to make sense because the page for anomaly classes quite literally only says that they are rated based on their Wertheimer score. So ig we could just dismiss the statement as an outlier? Also how dangerous it is is reflected in the risk assessment so why would they include it in the class?

 

[Monosc]

Anything else?

I think we should maybe try to find something for speed

 

[Darkmon_cns]

is it acceptable to use uncertain proof/height?

I'm not there yet, what's wrong with it

Found the thread

Official Calculations Discussion Thread

Use this thread for questions regarding how to perform calculations and related general information. This includes asking for information regarding methods, real life data, and help when calculating feats. All Calculation Group Members should preferably subscribe to it.

vsbattles.com

 

[Darkmon_cns]

Can you send the full statement pls? I can't seem to find it. But it doesn't seem to make sense because the page for anomaly classes quite literally only says that they are rated based on their Wertheimer score. So ig we could just dismiss the statement as an outlier? Also how dangerous it is is reflected in the risk assessment so why would they include it in the class?

I don't actually know how to send images om the wiki unfortunately. It's the first record in the notes and records section of it's commission.

If i had to guess the Weritheimer score is only a general guideline and it's more based on the threat levels outlined in the same guide- and generally the score is used to assess the threat levels as well but anomolys are more closely examined after and given a proper class. But ultimately it is unclear we can only hope more information is given going forward. I am to be clear still ij support of scaling the same classes to eachother general or rather for higher classes to be rated above lower classes (tho we should try to remember some high class anomalies like lights out for example dosen't use there anomalyious energys for traditional destruction) but we should acknowledge the existence of evidence against that method when we find it. Unless more mounts and we learn a bit more about how anomolys are classified that implies that pratice is wrong I think we'll still end up keeping to it

 

[Monosc]

The profile from the ghost train confirms that the train travels within one anomalous realm so if we can prove the galaxies in the cutscene to be real 3-B might actually be reachable but the devs probably won't ever mention them so ig it will remain a dream

 

[Mbpoops]

I don't actually know how to send images om the wiki unfortunately. It's the first record in the notes and records section of it's commission.

If i had to guess the Weritheimer score is only a general guideline and it's more based on the threat levels outlined in the same guide- and generally the score is used to assess the threat levels as well but anomolys are more closely examined after and given a proper class. But ultimately it is unclear we can only hope more information is given going forward. I am to be clear still ij support of scaling the same classes to eachother general or rather for higher classes to be rated above lower classes (tho we should try to remember some high class anomalies like lights out for example dosen't use there anomalyious energys for traditional destruction) but we should acknowledge the existence of evidence against that method when we find it. Unless more mounts and we learn a bit more about how anomolys are classified that implies that pratice is wrong I think we'll still end up keeping to it

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