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Official Calculations Discussion Thread

Antvasima

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Use this thread for questions regarding how to perform calculations and related general information.

This includes asking for information regarding methods, real life data, and help when calculating feats.

All Calculation Group Members should preferably subscribe to it.
 
Last edited:

Armorchompy

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Similarly, I'd like to ask people to check out my method here. I was told by knowledgeable people off-site that the logic behind higher or lower-dimensional calculations is correct, I'm just not sure if I applied it right considering how odd the results are.
 

M3X

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Oh cool the thread is active. Well, I'm not that good with force calcs, so I have a question. During Stardust Crusaders, Star Platinum stops a truck from crashing with their car. I know that when two cars crashes, and if they were in opposite directions (as in, one in front of the other) the force of both is added. But how exactly am I supposed to get LS from this?
 

CloverDragon03

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Oh cool the thread is active. Well, I'm not that good with force calcs, so I have a question. During Stardust Crusaders, Star Platinum stops a truck from crashing with their car. I know that when two cars crashes, and if they were in opposite directions (as in, one in front of the other) the force of both is added. But how exactly am I supposed to get LS from this?
Based on the scan, it looks like Star Platinum stopped the truck before it could crash into them, so you'd just get the force of that car, as stopping a force completely requires a force of the same magnitude, just in the opposite direction.
 

M3X

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Hmm, and the distance would be the distance Star Platinum moved his arm or something?
 

CloverDragon03

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Based on the definition of work, it would actually be the distance Star Platinum tossed the car, as work is defined as the energy transfer when an object is displaced a certain distance.

So it'd be Star Platinum's force, which is the truck's force since Star Platinum can completely stop the truck, multiplied by the distance that it tossed the truck.
 
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About this calculation:
  1. Why do I need to use GPE in an explicit speed feat? The Tidal Manta jumps to the bottom of the sea at high speed, and at the same moment a huge wave flies into the sky, normally the correct thing to do is to use KE and not GPE. Because well, we have the distance, density, volume, and we know it was very fast
  2. If KE is questionable, why would the shockwave method not work?
But how would I get force from KE?
You can calculate the KE and then divide by the distance of the movement apparently
 

CloverDragon03

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About this calculation:
  1. Why do I need to use GPE in an explicit speed feat? The Tidal Manta jumps to the bottom of the sea at high speed, and at the same moment a huge wave flies into the sky, normally the correct thing to do is to use KE and not GPE. Because well, we have the distance, density, volume, and we know it was very fast
  2. If KE is questionable, why would the shockwave method not work?
For the shockwave method, well it's because it's not a shockwave, it's simply a large mass of water coming up.

As for GPE, it's because the total mass doesn't appear until the peak, since more water is coming up. Essentially, as more water comes up, the mass is going up (because there's more volume), so KE wouldn't be that accurate.
 
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For the shockwave method, well it's because it's not a shockwave, it's simply a large mass of water coming up.
And this wave came about with the impact of a Tidal Manta. Don't we generalize things like this as a "shockwave" usually? I remembered something like this
As for GPE, it's because the total mass doesn't appear until the peak, since more water is coming up. Essentially, as more water comes up, the mass is going up (because there's more volume), so KE wouldn't be that accurate.
So isn't it simpler to use 1/4 in KE?
 

CloverDragon03

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And this wave came about with the impact of a Tidal Manta. Don't we generalize things like this as a "shockwave" usually? I remembered something like this
I don't think so. I think that's just water being kicked up.
And this wave came about with the impact of a Tidal Manta. Don't we generalize things like this as a "shockwave" usually? I remembered something like this

So isn't it simpler to use 1/4 in KE?
Where does 1/4 come from?
 

CloverDragon03

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The issue isn't the speed, it's the mass. Because more water is coming up, the mass is what isn't constant, and by the time it hits the peak where it has its maximum mass, it has no speed.
 
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Yes, and that was still not a good answer. GPE should also not be used, since the water is at high speed and so on. Also, if the mass is not constant, GPE is useless as far as I know
 

CloverDragon03

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GPE is still the best option. Given the situation, KE is just strictly worse. When an object is at a max height, in that moment it has no speed, so you can't get KE.
 

M3X

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If I calc freezing a moving train and stopping it because of the ice, should the KE be added to the ice creation? Or the KE would work normally for that?
 

KLOL506

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If I calc freezing a moving train and stopping it because of the ice, should the KE be added to the ice creation? Or the KE would work normally for that?
I'm guessing the KE would work normally for that portion.
 

CloverDragon03

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M3X is right, this thread is for stuff like asking how to go about calculating certain feats, for example.
 

M3X

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If I calc freezing a moving train and stopping it because of the ice, should the KE be added to the ice creation? Or the KE would work normally for that?
About this. The character is question is Ghiacco, from JoJo. He states that is able to freeze a roaring train. Part 5 takes place in 2001 and in Italy, so I used this train.

So I just took the mass and speed and slaped a KE calc (ignore the first part, it's just some justifications for Jotaro's profile). About the freezing the train, as in, the area of the train etc etc, how do you guys think I should use considering this method?
 
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Similarly, I'd like to ask people to check out my method here. I was told by knowledgeable people off-site that the logic behind higher or lower-dimensional calculations is correct, I'm just not sure if I applied it right considering how odd the results are.
Scale kinda gets screwed up is you approximate J/cc as J/cm^2, since then you’re essentially arbitrarily deciding that all things require the same energy to break as if they were a cm thick based solely on the fact that we happen to use cm as our standard unit on site.
Since you’re operating in such a small scale, rather than relying on values in J/cc form that rely on being able to fit in more molecules due to depth it might be best to directly approximate the number of atoms/molecules and calculate the energy to separate them. For instance, water molecules are held together by hydrogen bonds, which contain 4-13 kJ/ mol of bonds, or 6.64231152e-21 J to 2.15875125e-20 J per bond, and the nuclear binding energy of iron is 8.79MeV per atom, or 1.437e-12 J
 

Armorchompy

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Since you’re operating in such a small scale, rather than relying on values in J/cc form that rely on being able to fit in more molecules due to depth it might be best to directly approximate the number of atoms/molecules
How do you think I should do that?
 
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The way water molecules bond to one another, the oxygen attracts two hydrogens, and the hydrogens each attract to one oxygen. When simplified to two dimensions, this causes them to form a pattern somewhat like brickwork. So you can effectively map the area covered by each molecule through length x (height + distance between molecules).
Since water’s an angled molecule, we can use that to find the height. Using the same source you found the size of water molecules in, the angle is 104.45 degrees.
Using an isosceles triangle calculator, with base angle of (180-104.45)/2 = 37.775 and base of 0.28 we can find the height to be 0.14725nm
Based on this the average distance between water molecules is 3.1 angstroms (0.31 nm)
So the area per water molecule would be around 0.28nm*0.45725nm = 0.12803nm^2, or 1.2803e-15cm^2
The minimum number of hydrogen bonds should be the number of water molecules minus 1.

For the picoscale, it’s smaller than an atom, but still larger than the nucleus of an iron atom. Since our subatomization is based on destruction of the nucleus, it might not be the best value to use here. Maybe using ionization energy might be better? Since the destruction is 19.6pm out of the 126pm of an iron atom, maybe you could assume it removed 15.55% of the electrons spread throughout (so, about 4)? I’m not confident in this method, but I think it makes more sense here than nucleus destruction. The energy of the first ionization from iron is 7.9024eV or 1.266104e-18 Joules. I tried to calculate later ones, but looking at my result I’m confident I used the equation wrong
 

KingTempest

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Question

Would it be calc stacking to use the equivalent reaction speed of someone who has a stated speed?

For example.

Someone is canonically stated to move at the speed of lightning.
1/Speed of Lightning for reactions as a lowball since they have feats with even quicker reactions.

Someone blitzes them
Calc the distance they moved to blitz them.

Distance moved during blitz / (1/speed of lightning) = speed

Would that be calc stacking?
 

Armorchompy

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If it's explicitly stated and the statement is reliable it should be fine but it can lead to really high stuff so be careful when considering the result and all
 

KLOL506

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If it's explicitly stated and the statement is reliable it should be fine but it can lead to really high stuff so be careful when considering the result and all
I'm of the same mindset. Was gonna say the same thing.

As long as the lightning stuff is canonically stated and all, and the timeframe fits and all depending on the context, yeah sure, run like hell.
 
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Another idea would be calcing the distance traveled while undressing and moving backwards or whatever (i do not get the context of the feat).
But here is an extremely rough (made at 5:30AM) idea of the calc.
Let's see how he disrobes. It is impossible to not move the sleeves if we take out both hands at the same time so let's assume 1m for each hand and thus 2m. Next the legs, he could have jumped out of them, 1m. Next the dash back and that is another meter or so.
Low balling it, let's use the idea that the guy moved faster than the clothes could fall 1cm. Using a calculator, a fall from that height would take around 0.045sec and thus the speed is 4m per 0.045sec or 1m per 0.01125sec or 88.88m per second which is ~320km/h or subsonic.

Assuming it had not fallen a millimeter we can use 10x that aka 3200km/h or supersonic.

But if you want a legit usable calc then you'll need evidence, context, pixel scaling, more pixel scaling and a time frame.
 

Armorchompy

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The way water molecules bond to one another, the oxygen attracts two hydrogens, and the hydrogens each attract to one oxygen. When simplified to two dimensions, this causes them to form a pattern somewhat like brickwork. So you can effectively map the area covered by each molecule through length x (height + distance between molecules).
Since water’s an angled molecule, we can use that to find the height. Using the same source you found the size of water molecules in, the angle is 104.45 degrees.
Using an isosceles triangle calculator, with base angle of (180-104.45)/2 = 37.775 and base of 0.28 we can find the height to be 0.14725nm
Based on this the average distance between water molecules is 3.1 angstroms (0.31 nm)
So the area per water molecule would be around 0.28nm*0.45725nm = 0.12803nm^2, or 1.2803e-15cm^2
The minimum number of hydrogen bonds should be the number of water molecules minus 1.

For the picoscale, it’s smaller than an atom, but still larger than the nucleus of an iron atom. Since our subatomization is based on destruction of the nucleus, it might not be the best value to use here. Maybe using ionization energy might be better? Since the destruction is 19.6pm out of the 126pm of an iron atom, maybe you could assume it removed 15.55% of the electrons spread throughout (so, about 4)? I’m not confident in this method, but I think it makes more sense here than nucleus destruction. The energy of the first ionization from iron is 7.9024eV or 1.266104e-18 Joules. I tried to calculate later ones, but looking at my result I’m confident I used the equation wrong
Thanks for the help, I think it works now.
 

EliminatorVenom

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"Hey I'm gonna punch those cars and deliver a very nice lifting strength feat"
To be honest, there's some forms of punching I'd consider as LS, as punching with bad form will make people try to "push" things with the fist after the impact. That is so hard to see accurately in fiction though that it might be ignored.

I've a question. How would I calculate a feat that something split something apart with a blow? Not with a slicing attack, but rather breaking something in two pieces right at the middle.
 

EliminatorVenom

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yeah pushing with a fist after a punch is definitely fine but i don't think GE does that

as for the splitting, i'm not aware of a better method so i just used a cutting formula for a similar feat (second calc if it doesn't send you to it automatically)
Yeah, it's rare to see that in fiction. Strangely, we can see that clearly in martial arts manga when the practicioners supposedly are master martial artists that, in practice, would be the least likely to do that.

Thanks! you truly have supreme taste in games, that one is a gem
 

Armorchompy

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Compressive strength here is basically another term for saying "Pulverization" strength.
Yeah I made that calc before the Demon Slayer one where you told me. Maybe I oughta go back and fix it.
Thanks! you truly have supreme taste in games, that one is a gem
My man are we twins or something, seems like we just play the same stuff lol 🤝
 

EliminatorVenom

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Question: How would I calc bending something?

I wanted to have a go at some prison bar bending feats, where the character just grabs the thing with his hand and bends it out of shape.
 

KLOL506

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And reflect a missile? Like here
Missiles are generally 300 m/s but here you need to figure out how far the slash moved and how far the missile was from the bike.

Formula is as follows

(Distance moved by character * Speed of projectile) / Distance between character and projectile when the character started moving

However, I think I saw a bullet-smacking there as well. Bullets from a minigun can reach upto 853 m/s.
 
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I am referring to whether reflecting a missile (or anything) can be considered an LS feat, since according to what I have seen a missile from a RPG can weigh 21Kg, which forms class K with the speed
 

KLOL506

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I am referring to whether reflecting a missile (or anything) can be considered an LS feat, since according to what I have seen a missile from a RPG can weigh 21Kg, which forms class K with the speed
Doubt it. It's still either an AP feat or a Speed feat.
 

M3X

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How do calc LS from jumping feats? Feat in question is Gyro jumping 8 meters high with his Steel Balls.
 

Jasonsith

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How do calc LS from jumping feats? Feat in question is Gyro jumping 8 meters high with his Steel Balls.
By Armorchompy Jump Good lifting strength model,

Attack Potency = Potential energy (PE) gained in jumping upward = m (Mass of character in kg) x g (applicable gravity: 9.80665 J/kg/m for Earth) x h (height of character vertically jumping upward from ground in meters)
Travel speed = attack speed and reaction speed = Initial launch speed = (2 g h)^0.5 in m/s
Lifting strength (in Newton) = PE / D (distance of force applied: estimated to be 1/3 character height, justify if actual force applying distance differs)
 

Armorchompy

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m can technically be mass of character + whatever they're holding, although idk if the steel balls will make much difference
 

M3X

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Calced the feat and got Class 1, 1.16 metric tons. It'd be higher if I add Steel Ball weight into it (~3kg each) but not something that'd change a lot.
 
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Hello, is it alright if I ask for some advice towards calcing this feat? I'm trying to get how durable Star Platinum would need to be to survive this. Some problems with the calc include:

Area, pressure, speed, location, density, KE, omnidirectional point, size, etc.

I would really appreciate any possible help with this.
 

Baken384

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Hello, is it alright if I ask for some advice towards calcing this feat? I'm trying to get how durable Star Platinum would need to be to survive this. Some problems with the calc include:

Area, pressure, speed, location, density, KE, omnidirectional point, size, etc.

I would really appreciate any possible help with this.
Good luck and may God bless you in your journey Blue.
 

AbaddonTheDisappointment

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How can I find force in newtons with this calculation?
You use F=MA. F is force in Newtons, M is mass, A is acceleration in m/s^2. To get m/s^2 you take the distance and divide it by the timeframe twice I believe and you just plug it in to get the newtons.

I don't really know the context of the scene but if they're basically pushing that much rock up at that speed it could probably be an LS feat
 
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So

(33.3514306676)/(0.5×0.013^2) = 394691.4871905m/s^2

19603142.7201*394691.4871905 = 7.7371935538e+12 newtons (Class G)

Is that right?
 

AbaddonTheDisappointment

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I found this calculation when I was researching and used it as a basis. It is probably a more complete formula (?)
Maybe, I've only ever used distance/time^2 and I've been told that was correct though given the edit was suggested by a calc group member, I'd use that one instead so what you posted should be correct
 

CloverDragon03

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Maybe, I've only ever used distance/time^2 and I've been told that was correct though given the edit was suggested by a calc group member, I'd use that one instead so what you posted should be correct
The equation used there comes from this kinematic equation:

Distance = (initial speed * time) + (0.5 * acceleration * time^2)

Initial speed is often 0 m/s (because the object starts at rest) so that first part is 0, so technically it's "Distance = 0.5 * acceleration * time^2" in those cases. You can solve for acceleration there (Acceleration = Distance / (0.5 * time^2))
 

JTGamer96

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My apologies, but can I get as many of you as I possibly can to join this thread in regards to calculations, please? I'm really searching for assistance here.
 
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What temperature is required to vaporize metal instantaneously? I have seen some people say it is 2800 degrees and others say it is with 27700 degrees
 

Jasonsith

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What temperature is required to vaporize metal instantaneously? I have seen some people say it is 2800 degrees and others say it is with 27700 degrees

The scientific boiling point of pure iron is 2862 °C.

The 27700 °C thing comes from the hypothesis I cannot find but in my memories hearing somewhere that you need this temperature differential to replicate the vaporising feat IRL. Like one needs to cook an energy ball at 27700 °C such that it can touch iron and instantly vaporise it.
But this has a lot to consider with temperature differential and heat capacity and heat conductivity and emissivity.
Which is why it is not used in versus debate normally.
 

JTGamer96

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I made a blog here acting as a compilation of all the common speed feats I could find on the VS Battles Wiki. You guys think you could check it out whenever you have the time?
 
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