Never Two without Three: Rimuru Vs Arceus

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

293+ millio (Only to increase with US/UM)

- Each of those have countless alternative universes

- Each of those have multiple timelines from the past or future

This actually needs to be updated. The lowball now should be at least 303 million universes because of the Lets Go games. And it'll only increase once Sword and Shield comes out.

 

[NeoSuperior]

So how would that absorption work? Rimuru stretches out his hand and absorbs a part of the omnipresent Arceus? I am geniuninely curious how this is treated in VS battles, since Rimuru only needs part of the target to analyse and he could also just continue "sucking in" continously the Arceus all around him?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Speaking of that, how's Rimuru gonna bypass Arceus's defenses? Plates and forcefields work wonders against some physical means, especially with Rimuru being vastly inferior when it comes to stats.

 

[NeoSuperior]

It's not that they created life. The ore explicitly states they're responsible for the souls.

Is there anything concrete about being able to "modify" the souls they are "responsible for" and is there any proof of being able to influence souls outside of the ones they themselves created?

 

[Elizhaa]

Arceus's soul manipulation upscales from the Lake Trio, who have multiversal soul manipulation.

I've a question.
Since the lake of Trio is responsible of the creation of soul, mind and will (if i'm remember correctly), they have demonstrated a Multiversal soul manipulation instead of create souls on a Multiversal scale?

Ninja'd Pachi, too fast 4 me

Mesprit, Uxie and Azelf: Knowledge, emotions, and will power. I am not sure where soul come from.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Eli. Plate myths/Arceus myths state it.

 

[Elizhaa]

So how would that absorption work? Rimuru stretches out his hand and absorbs a part of the omnipresent Arceus? I am geniuninely curious how this is treated in VS battles, since Rimuru only needs part of the target to analyse and he could also just continue "sucking in" continously the Arceus all around him?

His avatar- as they are not omnipresent; Arceus always used it first from it canon showing.

 

[TriforcePower1]

I've a question.
Since the lake of Trio is responsible of the creation of soul, mind and will (if i'm remember correctly), they have demonstrated a Multiversal soul manipulation instead of create souls on a Multiversal scale?

Ninja'd Pachi, too fast 4 me

Mesprit, Uxie and Azelf: Knowledge, emotions, and will power. I am not sure where soul come from.

"In the beginning, there was only a churning turmoil of chaos. At the heart of chaos, where all things became one, appeared an Egg. Having tumbled from the vortex, the Egg gave rise to the Original One. From itself, two beings the Original One did make. Time started to spin. Space began to expand. From itself again, three living things the Original One did make. The two beings wished, and from them, matter came to be. The three living things wished, and from them, spirit came to be. The world created, the Original One took to unyielding sleep.."

 

[NeoZex6399]

One of Cyrus' goals in Platinum is to rip, erase and destroy all the spirits of his universe with the power of Dialga and Palkia.

"...I should have expected as much. Uxie, "The Being of Knowledge." Azelf, "The Being of Willpower." And Mesprit, "The Being of Emotion"..."
"The Pokémon have come to protect Sinnoh? Pathetic and worthless. It takes the three of them, the three lake Pokémon that symbolize spirit, to balance either the Pokémon of time or space. But they can't maintain balance against the two. Not when both Dialga and Palkia are here. Their coming here is in vain. So much meaningless drama. Now, <player>. You've constantly interfered with my plans, but you will be forgiven. After all, there will remain no spirit for all time when I am done. All spirit will disappear. It will be ripped away... From you! From your Pokémon! From those precious to you...! It is time! My dream will be my reality!"

 

[NeoSuperior]

Slimeverse quite explicitly differentiates between soul and spirit.

 

[Wokistan]

Pokémon doesn't.

 

[Elizhaa]

NeoZex6399, I see.

Well, Rimuru still had Mid-Godly Regenerationn so soul hax won't kill it.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I know, I just think that the Soul Hax of Arceus and friends should not be limited to creation alone.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It's not to kill Rimuru but to bypass his resistance to power absorption.

Btw, given this is a Plate ability, Silvally should get power absorption too.

 

[PaChi2]

I know, I just think that the Soul Hax of Arceus and friends should not be limited to creation alone.

It should unless they have other feats. We do that with other characters.

 

[Wokistan]

In this case I'm not entirely sure what would be done about the spirit and soul thing. Pokémon uses both terms but uses the interchangeably, so I guess it would depend on how Rimuruverse defines the two concepts.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Don't mind me, just watching the fireworks

 

[NeoSuperior]

Still no proof for that being battle-appliable though. Being able to create souls/spirits doesn't neccessarily mean you can "manipulate" souls/spirits, espacially ones you didn't create yourself or those that are "foreign".

Are there actually any actual feats for Soul Manipulation on that level?

 

[Wokistan]

But this is your verse

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm 90% sure a good amount of Star Wars stuff comes from upscaling, but I'm not gonna claim double standards without concrete evidence. Also like...Dragon Ball and Portal creation.

That said, read my above reply.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I know, and that makes sense, I guess, but Cyrus himself says Dialga and Palkia can do more than that.

Also in the manga the Distortion World absorbed the spirits of Maxie and the other guy.

 

[Elizhaa]

It's not to kill Rimuru but to bypass his resistance to power absorption.
Btw, given this is a Plate ability, Silvally should get power absorption too.

I don't think Arceus ever bypassed Resistance to Power Absorption at all and RImuru has resistance to resistance negation. Besides, Rimuru is a character that is likely to steal an ability first; he can do it without contact.

 

[NeoSuperior]

It's still a mid-battle application against a "foreign" soul that Arceus didn't create himself. I know this might sound a bit "false equivalently", but a good engineer or programmer isn't neccessarily a good hacker.

I am just asking if there are any feats for this Soul Manipulation being battle appliable or not, or rather are there actually any direct modifications/changes done to the souls/spirits after they started being alive at any point?

 

[Elizhaa]

So many comments quickly

 

[NeoSuperior]

Will this be another Rimuru vs Riven or Rimuru vs Medaka? I hope not.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It's still a mid-battle application against a "foreign" soul that Arceus didn't create himself. I know this might sound a bit "false equivalently", but a good engineer or programmer isn't neccessarily a good hacker.

This is the equivalant to saying someone creating a universe/muliverse in their verse is useless in a vs battle because they dont have dominion over the verse they are going up against.

Or that soul manipulation in itself is a useless and pointless power because characters only manipulate souls from their verses and not other ones. It doesnt matter if a soul is "foreign" or not.

 

[Elizhaa]

Will this be another Rimuru vs Riven or Rimuru vs Medaka? I hope not.

I think not; Riven's mind hax got taken far out of context. Medaka's infinite speed boost was banned in speed equalized. I think Rimuru would have won if some were over fanatical to point of making NLF, in my opionions.

 

[Wokistan]

Medaka's infinite speed boost isn't banned, since when was that a thing?

Also Riven's mental stuff wasn't ever exactly debunked, I just don't care to go back to that thread and am content to just leave it as such.

 

[NeoSuperior]

This is the equivalant to saying someone creating a universe/muliverse in their verse is useless in a vs battle because they dont have dominion over the verse they are going up against.

Or that soul manipulation in itself is a useless and pointless power because characters only manipulate souls from their verses and not other ones. It doesnt matter if a soul is "foreign" or not.

You got a point that just being "foreign" is perhaps not much of an argument due to verse equalization, but the issue about it being battle appliable still remains. I am asking what kind of powers over spirits/souls do these Pokegods have? How have they shown to influence them so far and to what extent? Did one of them show the ability to have that very influence on spirits/souls that the other ones created? How many were shown to be influenced like that at once?

 

[Wokistan]

I mean randomly making a universe out of nowhere doesn't seem the most helpful thing. It's more that we scale that out to their actual attacks.

 

[Elizhaa]

Medaka's infinite speed boost isn't banned, since when was that a thing?
Also Riven's mental stuff wasn't ever exactly debunked, I just don't care to go back to that thread and am content to just leave it as such.

Match-ups with equalized statistics (with the exception of speed) are not allowed, as they turn the entire tiering system unnecessary.

• During a match where speed is equalized, speed amplification techniques are allowed, unless they lead to a victory via Speed Blitz in favor of the slower character.
  • Medaka's infinite boost should qualified as a speed amplification technique

Riven's mind hax was blow out of proportion by some initally besides Rimuru's mind hax resistance get updated futher more.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Sorry guys, I shouldn't have brought those other matches up.

 

[Wokistan]

Medaka's thing isn't a typical amp though. She uses the erasure of All Fiction to just set the time her attacks take to 0, which is not the same thing at all. Don't think that would be restricted ever, lest time stop be restricted in speed equal.

It literally wasn't though? Continue this on my wall since it's derailing.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I mean randomly making a universe out of nowhere doesn't seem the most helpful thing. It's more that we scale that out to their actual attacks.

That got nothing to do with Soul Manipulation though. The Soul Manipulation page outright states that just simply attacking/destroying souls is just a form of Non-Physical Interaction. Likewise Creation doesn't neccessarily come with the ability to influence the "finalized product" after the fact.

 

[Wokistan]

I was responding to Kukui with that

 

[Schnee_One]

I'm 90% sure a good amount of Star Wars stuff comes from upscaling, but I'm not gonna claim double standards without concrete evidence.

Hehehehe What...

 

[TriforcePower1]

Can we just stop for a moment?

Now, what are the win conditions for both fighters?

 

[NeoSuperior]

Rimuru teleports to Earth and destroys all existing physical and digital copies of Pokémon games (and other media). Arceus stops existing. GG ez win.

 

[Elizhaa]

Can we just stop for a moment?

Now, what are the win conditions for both fighters?

Rimuru absorbs an Avatar which Arceus's move in character first give a huge statistics boost including range boost to be able to kill Arceus. He would of course be aided by Precognition and information Analysis which he resist and Arceus does not. Rimuru has also power absorbtion, power mimicry, and Reactive Evolution to help.

Arceus can only win by BFR and is never it is first move at all.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

If Rimuru had the range and ap, he might arguably win.

As for this current match, have no interest in arguing either way.

Just here to watch how this goes.

Rimuru matches are so overdone, but it gets click i guess, since no other tensei character is as popular.

We need more of LN translated so ppl will spam the characters who are stronger than slimeboy