ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
Not minor but aight lol
Senses in what way? Hearing and Smelling and stuff? Or Mind? Pretty sure Frisk can LOAD with their body, soul or mind but I might be wrong on this last part
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Natsuki Subaru VS Frisk
- Thread starter Mariogoods
- Start date
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,709
- 2,873
Well, for the description of the ability
"Ul Shamak covers the area in darkness making the opponent unable to tell anything while under its effect, such as where they are sitting or standing, whether or not they are conscious, whether they are breathing in or out, dead or alive, whether they still retained human shape, how to move their arms, who they are etc. Those affected by it can be snapped out of its effects by being hit really hard"
It seems pretty busted.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
I mean yeah but I think thats mind manipulation and Frisk resists it
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,709
- 2,873
Well, the mind manipulation that they can resist seems way weeker trought, and also they din't need to use a ability to escape right? I don't think they able to think in using because of the aforement effects.
Is BFR to another dimension that's actively causing this.
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Its a separate alternate dimesnion and Satella brought Subaru from another universe with its own laws. I would say there is a good chance Al shamak puts you in a completely difference universe
Can i confirm what you meant by this?
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
No we cant. Both of them are going through some major revisions
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
Its still mind hax that frisk resist
LOAD should have enough range to bring frisk back
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Its a mix of mind hax + bfr
Frisk does not have any feats of resisting mind hax that make you oblivious to your own existence
Doesn't that activate only if he dies? Also ehats the range of load to begin with
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,709
- 2,873
Is actually Ul Shamak.
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Right i confused Shamak with Ul shamak, i edited it so just read that one again
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
He resists mind hax that confuses peoples minds. This hax is used to confuse minds. Frisk resists it
No
Timeline hopping
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It cuts off your sense, not the same as confusion resistance. Thats like saying getting drunk and having your eyes gouged out have the same effect.
So his power is going back in time? Doesn't he lose via bfr since he is stuck in another dimension with its own timeline
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
It destroys your mind. Frisk has shown resistance to general mind hax.
You know when you save and load back to your checkpoints in game? Thats how it works.
No.
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Ul shamak doesnt destroy your mind, it cuts off your sense to the point where you cant figure out your own existence. There are lots of types of mond haxes. No "general" mind hax exists
I am currently playing Undertale but can he do that on command? Like can he just go to settings and press load
Elaborate. He uses load to go back in his own timeline and he cant choose to do so randomly right? So if he goes to another dimension isn't he stuck there?
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
I am not sure if thats still enough. Frisk can use clear mind to...clear their mind.
Yes. Its not a he.
No because they will just load back to the original timeline before the fight begun. They just goes back in time
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Wouldn't the natural conclusion be using LOAD if such a situation comes to pass? It doesn't matter how much their senses have been cut.
Think of a human who has gone through sense deprivation. If they have a command they can use at will, then why not use it to get out of the situation? The surroundings don't factor to it.
Yes. As ShionAH said, it is very similar to games. Neutral Route's final boss should give you some idea about the usage of the ability as well.
SAVE system isn't merely time travel. It can be treated as one usually but it is more akin to loading the game's/universe's state at the time (Slightly different from that as well but that's the general idea).
Ans SAVE system affects multiple timelines at once as evidenved by Sans. It is also implied that quitting the game is among Frisk's abilities to a degree so they can do something similar. In the worst case scenario, Frisk would just use RESET which is far beyond LOAD.
Last edited:
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Considering that the arguments for Subaru were based on a power that isn't listed in the profile, I vote Frisk FRA by Determination, SI and RESET as the last option.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
Plus frisk is getting emphathic manipulation, Frisk FRA
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What power?
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SI.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
"He also experiences intense trauma with each death which can cause him great psychological distress. For this reason, he tends not to rely on "Return by Death", using it only as a last resort."
How is this guy gonna use that ability infinite times if using it even a few times causes him trauma?
How is this guy gonna use that ability infinite times if using it even a few times causes him trauma?
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I still don't get how this can end as anything other than inconclusive. Neither Subaru nor Frisk is a battle maniac and it is extremely likely that they will just talk it out. Even on the off chance that they end up killing each other a few times due to a misunderstanding, that's nothing new for them. And given that they both retain their memories, it is almost inevitable that they will be friends. Not only does it give them more time to learn more about each other, but it also makes any immediate fighting pointless.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
Becoming friends can be an wincon. It depends who has the better influence. (Arkadaş yapan kişi kazanıyor böyle maçlarda)
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I am pretty sure becoming friends is inconclusive, especially when both sides agree to it. A win via to SI would be something like if one side convinced another to suicide.
Merak etme. İngilizce anlıyorum.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
No. SI means influencing the other. It depends on who influences who, the influencer wins. Frisk converting him to be their ally means they won
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SBA wincons are already specified and becoming friends isn't among them. Nobody meets the requirements in such a scenario. Besides, becoming friends is not "who influences who" scenario. It is literally a mutual agreement. I already gave an example to what actually winning through SI would look like
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
"incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions."
Now you will say "uh frisk also cannot hurt them" but that is wrong. Frisk still hurt them but they cannot hurt frisk because they have been influenced.
No. If frisk becomes friends with them and influences them then he can just ask them to leave the battle. Or the otherway around, SI is a wincon.
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Since when becoming friends is counted as being incapacitated?
What kind of logic is that? Frisk is becoming friends with Subaru, not brainwashing him. And I repeat for the nth time, becoming friends is something mutual. It is not one-sided.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
You wont hurt a friend. Plus frisk makes them give up on the battle which is also a wincon.
Social Influencing is an wincon. Frisk influencing them to become his ally means Frisk won. Frisk influencing them to give up on fighting means Frisk won. I am sorry but that is just how it works.
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,709
- 2,873
No with that poor reasoning.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
Literally half of the points natsuki has are not on the profile or just wrong.
"He also experiences intense trauma with each death which can cause him great psychological distress. For this reason, he tends not to rely on "Return by Death", using it only as a last resort."
How is this guy gonna use that ability infinite times if using it even a few times causes him trauma?
"And there is no known limit to how many times they can return. This ability allows Subaru a near endless amount of second chances"
How are we so sure he can do it infinite times?
I also don't see the whole mind hax BFR thing on the profile
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Which is something done willingly. It is not what being incapacitated is.
Frisk also gives up on the battle. That's the point of becoming friends. It seems you fundamentally misunderstand the whole situation. Frisk doesn't become friends with Subaru because of some kind of intention to win. They just don't want to fight. The same holds true for Subaru as well.
I am gonna repeat this until you understand. They both agree to become friends. It is not one-sided.
Never said it isn't. I just said "becoming friends" isn't among wincons SI provides.
You can be sorry as much as you want but it is evidently not how it works.
We will see that. I just wish staff members actually argued instead of dropping their opinions and disappearing. That's not how a discussion works.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
I don't wanna discuss SI being a wincon since its so obvious. Frisk can also just make them give up on fighting or make them his ally. By your logic using emphathic manipulation to make someone your ally is also not a wincon which is baseless and extremely stupid.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
"This doesn't prevent a character being made to give up, because the other character manipulates them via things like, for example, mind control, fear inducement, psychological tricks or superhuman charisma."
Show me the quote that says SI is not a wincon. Show me come on.
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Have it you way then. It is blatantly inconclusive.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,170
- 5,330
I already have the quote that talks about SI being useable. So I am waiting for yours
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I don't want to be rude but are you lacking reading comprehension? Read this again:
And the rest is something I already answered as well. No one makes anyone give up. They agree to not fight. Subaru convinces Frisk as much as Frisk convinces him.
"Give up" situation you are talking is something like what King from OPM does. For instance, you convince the opponent that there is no chance of victory and they back down. This situation is nothing like that.
Have it you way then. And don't just start arguing again after saying something like this.
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