Natsu Dragneel (100 Years Quest) Vs Beatrix (Granblue Fantasy) - 4th Strongest 6-A (Non-Smurf)

[Deceived3596]

Placement for this thread here

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FDKM Natsu and Base Beatrix
SBA
Speed Equalized

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Natsu Dragneel

Vs

Beatrix

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Natsu:

Beatrix:

Incon:

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Natsu can't affect Beatrix with her causality defense

 

[Deceived3596]

Natsu can't affect Beatrix with her causality defense

Why can't he just null/burn away her sword and its abilities? he has burned away and nulled things above Beatrix's Causality Manip like Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) so i don't see how he couldn't just do the same to her sword.

Also is this defense passive? if not then how does she deal with Natsu's passive 200 Million degree C. level's of heat?

 

[Deceived3596]

That's not how it works here if you aren't showed to null a specific ability for example the casualty manipulation it means you can't null it

That... literally doesn't make any-form of logical sense.

Natsu can negate hax's which are above Beatrix's Causality Manip, so through basic logical deduction he could also negate Beatrix's Causality Manip.

Like i got a genuine question for you, Say for an example: I haven't shown the ability to negate Fire Manipulation despite the fact that i can negate Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation, you would say i couldn't negate that Fire Manip because i haven't "shown" myself negating it?

Hearing that example should explain to you why that line-of-logic is incorrect. (Also this argument isn't something even the wiki abide's by)

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

That... literally doesn't make any-form of logical sense.

Natsu can negate hax's which are above Beatrix's Causality Manip, so through basic logical deduction he could also negate Beatrix's Causality Manip.

Like i got a genuine question for you, going off this type of logic your proposing that since i haven't shown the ability to negate Fire Manipulation despite the fact that i can negate Type 1 Conceptual Manipulation i couldn't negate that Fire Manip?

Hearing that example should explain to you why that line-of-logic is incorrect. (Also this argument isn't something even the wiki abide's by)

It depends how the casualty manipulation work my bad my head is mixed up and got confused

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

It depends how the casualty manipulation work my bad my head is mixed up and got confused

she uses it to negate attacks. Natsu has not showed to null causality manipulation so her defense would work

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I fail to see why Natsu had a chance against Beatrix

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

This pretty much is a stomp now i saw beatrix' profile

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

Beatrix causality manipulation works in a way that it safeguards her from attacks by devouring causality. which often results to
a lethal attack becoming non-lethal or outright missing their mark basically changing causality.

also Granblue characters by default resist powernull
And her Weapon's core can resist corruption/powernull from otherworldly beings/otherworldly energy/chaos that can affect type 1 concept that it actually became a huge problem for Otherworldly being to corrupt 1 Automagod Core weapon so they can use it.

although yeah Natsu fire heat might actually be a problem here if she gets hit repeatedly since the Causality protection gets turned off when Beatrix starts unleashing the devoured karma from Embrasque

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

as for the heat defense
yes, Beatrix defense from Embrasque is passive. the enemy doesn't have to do anything for it to activate. even just a mere presence of an enemy being near or around her is enough to activate Embrasque. and depending on how dangerous the enemy to her the aura and karma it exudes and can release grows marginally

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well to be fair, with every BS that Beatrix had, Natsu passive heat are minuscule for her

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Tfw your wife is much busted and bs than you sad Zeta Noise

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

tfw Zeta has no profile yet despite being in Granblue Versus
dork Beatrix supremacy

 

[Deceived3596]

Beatrix causality manipulation works in a way that it safeguards her from attacks by devouring causality. which often results to
a lethal attack becoming non-lethal or outright missing their mark basically changing causality.

also Granblue characters by default resist powernull
And her Weapon's core can resist corruption/powernull from otherworldly beings/otherworldly energy/chaos that can affect type 1 concept that it actually became a huge problem for Otherworldly being to corrupt 1 Automagod Core weapon so they can use it.

although yeah Natsu fire heat might actually be a problem here if she gets hit repeatedly since the Causality protection gets turned off when Beatrix starts unleashing the devoured karma from Embrasque

Alright.

What's her level of PN resistance?

Her WC should resist the powernull effect of Natsu's fire but unless her Causality Manipulation is directly powered by that WC or something else comparable then that shouldn't stop Natsu from nulling her Causality Manip.

Then Natsu has another win-con if the "nulling Causality Manip" argument is disproved.

as for the heat defense
yes, Beatrix defense from Embrasque is passive. the enemy doesn't have to do anything for it to activate. even just a mere presence of an enemy being near or around her is enough to activate Embrasque. and depending on how dangerous the enemy to her the aura and karma it exudes and can release grows marginally

What's the level of her Heat resistance? given Natsu's passive heat is bare-minimum 200 Million degree Celsius.

 

[Zackra1799]

What does Beatrix lead with in character? How skilled is she in combat?

I'm not sure why nulling causality manip is an option here given Natsu hasn't shown feats of nulling something like that before, the best he's done is Space-time manip and type 2 concepts.

Does here powernull resistance have Layers, if so how many? What about her absorption resistance.

 

[Deceived3596]

I'm not sure why nulling causality manip is an option here given Natsu hasn't shown feats of nulling something like that before, the best he's done is Space-time manip and type 2 concepts

You answered your own question.

Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation > Causality Manipulation as a baseline.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

What's the level of her Heat resistance? given Natsu's passive heat is bare-minimum 200 Million degree Celsius.

her heat resistance is not that high but again cause and effect working in ways that even things that would be lethal to her wouldn't kill her because causality is being devoured changing the effect that would be killing her turning into not being able to kill her

What's her level of PN resistance?

Her WC should resist the powernull effect of Natsu's fire but unless her Causality Manipulation is directly powered by that WC or something else comparable then that shouldn't stop Natsu from nulling her Causality Manip.

Regular resistance for Beatrix she doesn't have any veil or anything that gives it a higher layer of resistance since she's not really magic oriented
her causality hax comes from her weapon because its her weapon devouring karma and causality. if she is disarmed it won't work
Her weapon is sentient and can turn into an Automagod retaining its abilities and powers even without a wielder and can even devour their wielder.

idk how natsu burning type 2 concept works can that also be explained

What does Beatrix lead with in character? How skilled is she in combat?

I'm not sure why nulling causality manip is an option here given Natsu hasn't shown feats of nulling something like that before, the best he's done is Space-time manip and type 2 concepts.

Does here powernull resistance have Layers, if so how many? What about her absorption resistance.

Beatrix often plays dangerously going into dangerous tactics but always comes up on top and that works on her favor because dangerous situations and pinch powers up her weapon a lot (Kinda similar to Mine's weapon from akame ga kill but without certain limitations or overloading)
as her skill in combat among the top in society soldiers she was notable enough to be chosen as weapon contractor alongside 5 others. they are basically the top among the rankings and they are best of the best that they can battle primal beast. said primal beast is also on a level that people can only hope to reach their level of skill and magical prowess

absorption resistance is high. because their weapons are built to absorb primal beast but their weapon can resist it if its active and can only absorb other automagod core weapons if they are nullified or restrained

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

You answered your own question.

Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation > Causality Manipulation as a baseline.

Nulling Type 2 concept manip doesn't automatically mean you can null causality manip

 

[Deceived3596]

her heat resistance is not that high but again cause and effect working in ways that even things that would be lethal to her wouldn't kill her because causality is being devoured changing the effect that would be killing her turning into not being able to kill her

If she can't naturally resist the heat being produced by Natsu and is only able to survive it through her sword then she's getting burned to a crisp by his flames passive heat anytime she tries to attack Natsu with Karma given she drops that "Causality Protection" when she attacks you with Karma as you previously stated.

Regular resistance for Beatrix she doesn't have any veil or anything that gives it a higher layer of resistance since she's not really magic oriented
her causality hax comes from her weapon because its her weapon devouring karma and causality. if she is disarmed it won't work
Her weapon is sentient and can turn into an Automagod retaining its abilities and powers even without a wielder and can even devour their wielder.

idk how natsu burning type 2 concept works can that also be explained

Then he shouldn't be able to null the Causality Manipulation if it's directly tied towards her Weapon Core. He should be able to null her other hax's but he can't null the Causality Manip.

The fire he produces as the "Fire Dragon Slayer" can burn away magic, this includes Zeref's Time-Space Magic which is powered by a Type 2 Concept in the "Fairy Heart" (AKA Mavis's Body).

Nulling Type 2 concept manip doesn't automatically mean you can null causality manip

Directly from the "Power Nullification" Page

"It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can nullify anything that falls within the phenomena their powers are made to counter. It is to be assumed that any negation power has its limitations based on the strongest thing it has nullified, and a character may be resistant to the ability (at least in one of its forms), preventing it from having its usual effects."

Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) > Causality Manipulation as a baseline (But this doesn't matter, he can't even null Beatrix's CM given not even PN that can null CM Type 1 could null the effect)

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

If she can't naturally resist the heat being produced by Natsu and is only able to survive it through her sword then she's getting burned to a crisp by his flames passive heat anytime she tries to attack Natsu with Karma given she drops that "Causality Protection" when she attacks you with Karma as you previously stated.

not if the heat gets blown away by karma being released. and Beatrix realizing the heat he exudes will try to target him from a range and she has tens of kilometers of range for being able to reach one side of the island to another. or also this one

• Immortal Assault: Activate Embrasque Sword to Devour the surging karma and Slashes the enemy multiple times and grants invulnerability against one attack

This is her move when releasing karma which grants her temp invulnerability. so the only time you're actually able to harm her is if you survived or dodged her attack. but if you look at her range. the size of immortal assault and her weapon changes depending on how much karma it will release or accumulated so I doubt he can actually dodge that when it peaks around tens of kilometers for completely overpowering Ungyo death punch who leveled a massive snowy mountain in Northvast

Also, I wanna ask how hot is Natsu's passive fire heat because for one the only Aura heat that he has done was melting the stadium by just being there.
that is very far from the 200 million heat. (not to mention 200 million heat came from a magic technique and not something he exudes passively unless there is something that makes it see he passively releases that kind of heat)

Then he shouldn't be able to null the Causality Manipulation if it's directly tied towards her Weapon Core. He should be able to null her other hax's but he can't null the Causality Manip.

The fire he produces as the "Fire Dragon Slayer" can burn away magic, this includes Zeref's Time-Space Magic which is powered by a Type 2 Concept in the "Fairy Heart" (AKA Mavis's Body).

Beatrix is not a magician or magic-user basically the majority of her abilities rely on her weapon or integrate with her weapon or skill so he's not nulling anything from her either everything else is skill-based for her.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

So basically a discount TenSura characters BS lel

 

[Deceived3596]

not if the heat gets blown away by karma being released. and Beatrix realizing the heat he exudes will try to target him from a range and she has tens of kilometers of range for being able to reach one side of the island to another. or also this one

• Immortal Assault: Activate Embrasque Sword to Devour the surging karma and Slashes the enemy multiple times and grants invulnerability against one attack

This is her move when releasing karma which grants her temp invulnerability. so the only time you're actually able to harm her is if you survived or dodged her attack. but if you look at her range. the size of immortal assault and her weapon changes depending on how much karma it will release or accumulated so I doubt he can actually dodge that when it peaks around tens of kilometers for completely overpowering Ungyo death punch who leveled a massive snowy mountain in Northvast

Can you prove that the release of this Karma would blow away most of the heat being passively created by Natsu? just because she could possibly blow away some of the heat doesn't mean she can actively resist the rest of heat, which would be a massive problem for her.

She wouldn't get the chance to do that if she's turned to cinders by Natsu's heat.

He can survive it through lessening the AP of the attack with his Fire and i believe both have comparable AP towards each-other so that in itself lessens the AP as well for Natsu, but after that attack is done and she loses that Invurn what can she do against the passive heat? because how it looks right now she has no consistent way of stopping Natsu's passive heat from turning her into ashes after that attack.

Also, I wanna ask how hot is Natsu's passive fire heat because for one the only Aura heat that he has done was melting the stadium by just being there.
that is very far from the 200 million heat. (not to mention 200 million heat came from a magic technique and not something he exudes passively unless there is something that makes it see he passively releases that kind of heat)

He actively exerts the heat of his flames which reach 200 Million Degree heats so his passive aura of heat would be the same. The stadium feat was from a massively weaker version of Natsu then the one with the 200 Million Degree heats so that has no bearing over this version of Natsu.

The technique your talking about isn't from Natsu but rather Wahl, who can create that level of heat with a specific technique and Natsu's flames/heat scale above that level of heat because of his fire being able to melt Invel's Ice which can't be melted by Wahl.

Beatrix is not a magician or magic-user basically the majority of her abilities rely on her weapon or integrate with her weapon or skill so he's not nulling anything from her either everything else is skill-based for her.

Alright.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

He actively exerts the heat of his flames which reach 200 Million Degree heats so his passive aura of heat would be the same. The stadium feat was from a massively weaker version of Natsu then the one with the 200 Million Degree heats so that has no bearing over this version of Natsu.

The technique your talking about isn't from Natsu but rather Wahl, who can create that level of heat with a specific technique and Natsu's flames/heat scale above that level of heat because of his fire being able to melt Invel's Ice which can't be melted by Wahl.

i would need proof for that. because the one that I've read before he just melted a stadium. i know about natsu having more heat than that ability but you can't just say he passively exudes that just because he passively exudes heat before

Can you prove that the release of this Karma would blow away most of the heat being passively created by Natsu? just because she could possibly blow away some of the heat doesn't mean she can actively resist the rest of heat, which would be a massive problem for her.

She wouldn't get the chance to do that if she's turned to cinders by Natsu's heat.

He can survive it through lessening the AP of the attack with his Fire and i believe both have comparable AP towards each-other so that in itself lessens the AP as well for Natsu, but after that attack is done and she loses that Invurn what can she do against the passive heat? because how it looks right now she has no consistent way of stopping Natsu's passive heat from turning her into ashes after that attack.

it would since heat is directed by something. of course, a massive gust blowing away the direction of heat would easily do just that thanks to explosions and how explosions work unless he also manually controls the direction of his heat which wouldn't make sense when he simply passively exudes the heat.

as for the record, Beatrix heat resistance isn't that high which is 39k C or 71k F but the thing about natsu's passive heat just melting a stadium pales in comparison to that and I don't believe him passively exuding his heat at the level his flames can reach at peak. so again I ask how and why do we assume natsu passive heat is 200 million degree or higher just for melting a stadium in comparison to just that 200 million degree only on the fire techniques he manually releases

and lastly if we are to assume he does release that amount passively

I ask again what is the range because of course Beatrix would try to get out of range before releasing her karma since she isn't that dumb despite being a dork

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

it would since heat is directed by something. of course, a massive gust blowing away the direction of heat would easily do just that thanks to explosions and how explosions work unless he also manually controls the direction of his heat which wouldn't make sense when he simply passively exudes the heat.

as for the record, Beatrix heat resistance isn't that high which is 39k C or 71k F but the thing about natsu's passive heat just melting a stadium pales in comparison to that and I don't believe him passively exuding his heat at the level his flames can reach at peak. so again I ask how and why do we assume natsu passive heat is 200 million degree or higher just for melting a stadium in comparison to just that 200 million degree only on the fire techniques he manually releases

and lastly if we are to assume he does release that amount passively

I ask again what is the range because of course Beatrix would try to get out of range before releasing her karma since she isn't that dumb despite being a dork

He doesn't control the direction of the heat, the 200 million degree is on the profile iirc, the range not sure

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

i can assume highball which is kilometers. but beatrix outranges then

He doesn't control the direction of the heat, the 200 million degree is on the profile iirc, the range not sure

the description in the heat manip part is
In X792, his more powerful form's fire is hotter than Wall's Magic Confinement Fusion
this is referring to his fire though not his aura. since his aura is only exuding heat not fire. though feel free to correct if there are other scans supporting his passive heat release is as hot as the fire he releases

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

i can assume highball which is kilometers. but beatrix outranges then

the description in the heat manip part is
In X792, his more powerful form's fire is hotter than Wall's Magic Confinement Fusion
this is referring to his fire though not his aura. since his aura is only exuding heat not fire. though feel free to correct if there are other scans supporting his passive heat release is as hot as the fire he releases

His heat aura is always connected to natsu's fire imma try to find some scans later since i'm reading EZ right now

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

She wouldn't get the chance to do that if she's turned to cinders by Natsu's heat.

adding into this
Immortal assault is the attack that releases all the karma. so yeah while releasing it and after she gets temp invul for a very short while. so she's not getting burned while executing it. this one is different from the causality protection since she can die to attacks that completely ignore durability and invulnerability in this temporarily invul unlike the causality safeguard one where she can survive even those

He can survive it through lessening the AP of the attack with his Fire and i believe both have comparable AP towards each-other so that in itself lessens the AP as well for Natsu, but after that attack is done and she loses that Invurn what can she do against the passive heat? because how it looks right now she has no consistent way of stopping Natsu's passive heat from turning her into ashes after that attack.

beatrix AP upscale from 4.4petatons. and has stat amps
her being damaged and amped by embrasque goes from 30%-90% damage boost
and her using immortal assault is equivalent to 4.5x her current ap potency after stat amps calculation
and lastly. Nayde Vanaroosa further amps this by another 100% if she decided to use it.
that's how much damage amps in total would it be to release all the karma from embrasque
Delta clock might also amp this up but I don't think she can ramp that up in time since by the time the fight starts she's already in dire situation
and lastly. Statistic reduction resistance