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nasuverse Outer Gods revision

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'...The Outer God is...the god of the great gate...and the key. The six doors...up, down, left, right, front, and back...represent all possible...dimensions. And...this Outer God... ...is enshrined beyond the ultimate gate... The outside of our universe...where light can never reach. But despite that...he also borders all possible dimensions...and is tied to all possible things.' - Lavinia describing Yog-Sothoth
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This could be used for low 1-A clarification. I remember it is similar to Akuta clarification.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
No, I meant it doesn't exist in the level of the Root, or inside the Root, obviously it's contained within the Root because everything is.
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To be honest, to say that the Outer Gods are 100% influenced by the Root only for the reason that "everything came from the root" is very unfair, because on the same rights we can say that everything (including the Root) is inside the Yog-Sothoth (tied to everything, after all). If we are talking about the fact of the availability of information, then about the Outer Gods, Yog-Sothoth or the Outer Universe and their connection\interaction with the Root is not said anywhere at all and it has never been touched anywhere.
 
MrUnderlord said:
To be honest, to say that the Outer Gods are 100% influenced by the Root only for the reason that "everything came from the root" is very unfair, because on the same rights we can say that everything (including the Root) is inside the Yog-Sothoth (tied to everything, after all). If we are talking about the fact of the availability of information, then about the Outer Gods, Yog-Sothoth or the Outer Universe and their connection\interaction with the Root is not said anywhere at all and it has never been touched anywhere.
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The Outer gods' descriptions are way vaguer than the root's description which has been consistently stated to be the origin of every thing. Both possibility and impossibility. Yog-Sothoth being from a faraway Outer Universe doesn't make it beyond the influence of the Root. You can't even describe the Root as something part of "everything."
 
Tdjwo said:
The Outer gods' descriptions are way vaguer than the root's description which has been consistently stated to be the origin of every thing.
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We have only one description of Yog-Sothoth from Lavinia and it's always referred to as 'All-in-One, One-in-All'
 
MrUnderlord said:
We have only one description of Yog-Sothoth from Lavinia and it's always referred to as 'All-in-One, One-in-All'
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The root is beyond all-in-one, one-in-all. It doesn't matter what Yog-Sothoth is. He is still an existence from the Nasuverse. It would be derived from the Root.
 
Tdjwo said:
The root is beyond all-in-one, one-in-all. It doesn't matter what Yog-Sothoth is. He is still an existence from the Nasuverse. It would be derived from the Root.
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As I can see it's talking about 'Things in this world flowed from..'. Outer Gods, especially Yog-Sothoth, refers as thing from another world\Universe.
 
MrUnderlord said:
As I can see it's talking about 'Things in this world flowed from..'. Outer Gods, especially Yog-Sothoth, refers as thing from another world\Universe.
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To be honest, I don't know if you are implying that Yog-Sothoth is from another verse entirely separated from the Nasuverse but has a way of interfering with the Nasuverse. Because if that's the case, then we can argue that Yog-Sothoth is on similar levels to The root but still not as strong since the root's laws overpower Yog's influence in the verse. But any other implication would be wrong, especially if you admit that Yog-Sothoth is from the Nasuverse yet you claim that it's equal to/above the root which controls everything that isn't True Emptiness. Remember, True Emptiness is different from the root.

I personally don't think this crt would reach anywhere because the entire Nasuverse cosmology by itself in this site is outdated/incomplete.
 
Tdjwo said:
To be honest, I don't know if you are implying that Yog-Sothoth is from another verse entirely separated from the Nasuverse but has a way of interfering with the Nasuverse. Because if that's the case, then we can argue that Yog-Sothoth is on similar levels to The root but still not as strong since the root's laws overpower Yog's influence in the verse.
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YES!!! That's what I try to say. It was said clearly by Raum that Cthulhu Mythos exist in Our Universe as fictional mythos but they are also describes things outside of the Our Universe (technically that's all still TYPE-MOON universe but it contains two different cosmologies)
 
MrUnderlord said:
YES!!! That's what I try to say. It was said clearly by Raum that Cthulhu Mythos exist in Our Universe as fictional mythos but they are also describes things outside of the Our Universe (technically that's all still TYPE-MOON universe but it contains two different cosmologies)
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Then if that's the case, the Outer gods are technically not Nasuverse characters which means they don't need any scaling nor profiles because if we were to even create profiles for them, under what fictional verse would they be in? Nasuverse? or Cthulhu Mythos?
 
Tdjwo said:
Then if that's the case, the Outer gods are technically not Nasuverse characters which means they don't need any scaling nor profiles because if we were to even create profiles for them, under what fictional verse would they be in? Nasuverse? or Cthulhu Mythos?
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Uhm... Good question. Technically, that's TYPE-MOON universe but 'cause Outer Gods appears to be characters directly from Cthulhu Mythos and they not so powerful as in their own verse, then it's still to be Nasuverse, but it must be explained on their page\pages.
 
Need to understand that in Our Universe there are other universes like Servant Universe or universes that Chaos and Sefar came from. All of it is still to be known as Parallel\Adjacent Worlds. But we should understand that Outer Universe separate from the Our Universe. So I don't see any problem that your scan would create.
 
I domt have much time but didn't an outer god attempt to manifest itself in Case Files novel? In that scene there was something along the lines of "no dimemsions" from the realm where the outer god was appearing in

This is me trying to remember the scene on a hurry btw

Lord el-melloi case files volume 3

"I see I see. It was sloppy of me to let my memories get erased like that, but since it would let me start fresh all over again, I figured it would let me enjoy it even more. Man, I have a terrible personality. Thanks to that, the ending is going to turn out a little disappointing. I have nothing against you, Maio, but at this point there's nothing I can do to stop it." Touko looked up at thte ceiling. "Recently, I've been dividing things up. Though there recently haven't been so many attempts on my life around the Clock Tower...I see, I didn't tell you, did I?"

A strange cracking sound filled the air.

Not like one that sends waves through the air, perceived by the ear. Something more fundamental - a kind of friction that didn't belong in this dimension.

A sharp, scraping sound, that felt like it was being perceived directly by the soul. "Sorry, but I'll have to ask you to hold this for me for a bit." Touko said, throwing a small

paper box to my master.

A box of cigarettes.

Inorai's expression shifted. "Touko, you-"

"Haha, of course you figured it out." Touko said with a smile, the bizarre otherworldly sound increasing in volume as she did so.

No, I was the only one who understood.

(...when we were fighting, in that forest...)

At that time, I felt a bizarre presence from the too-large bag Touko carried with her. An extreme, despair inducing magical energy that made me wonder if it could even stand

up to Rhongomyniad. Now, that same feeling was leaking out of Touko's own body.

This was the true form of the contents of that bag

"Long ago, I got done in by surprise, so I've learned to take some countermeasures. Now, it's in here - oh, and don't worry. It is restricted to acting as a Counter. As long as you don't get in its way, it won't hurt anyone but the person who attacked me. Lord El-Melloi II, I'll be dropping by later to pick up those cigarettes."

With another crack, Touko's stomach broke open. Clothes, bone, and flesh alike split apart as if she was no more than a statue - and inside the open wound, a kind of 'door' awaited.

An oppressive darkness.

Not endless, but without dimensions altogether - an eternal, infinite hell.

I learned later from my master that that monster had no name. Since its existence was only known through Touko's magecraft, no one had managed to discern the nature of the

Mystery that lay behind it. There was the possibility that even Touko was unaware of the

truth behind that beast.

It was like a horror movie.

Unspeakably silent.

Understood by no one. And more than anything...immortal.

Within the depths of that ceaseless darkness, where no magecraft could ever hope to

reach it, two lights shined.

-the two eyes I saw at that time!

To the sound of Lord Byron's strangled scream, Touko's body completely broke apart, the

shadow within her bursting forth. Like a thorned plant, a clawed tentacle shot forward, taking hold of the pharmacist that

had hurt its master.

"May!"

In response to Rejina's scream, Maio could only give a muffled grunt.

It appeared like he had already given up.

In less than a moment, he would be dragged into the 'door' that was Touko Aozaki, where

he would be devoured by thousands of sets of jaws. Ah, that's right. There's no way to respond to that.

In a way, it was on the same level as that temporary Princess of Gold. Though thoroughly

its opposite, that monster's existence was enough to completely crush the soul of a human being. Even had it only been big enough to devour you one fingertip at a time, terror would

overwhelm all other sensations.

The end. The end.

The incident, everything, everything was over.

Like some sort of Deus Ex Machina, everything would be concluded here, bite by bite.

(...is that okay?)

Someone asked.

A question posed to me, from myself.

I was afraid of that hero of the past that tried to overtake me.

This person had just been overwhelmed by that absolute ______

Really, the difference between us was small. The difference between offering up oneself. or another. Whether we had a chance afterwards or not.
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TheUnshakableOne said:
I domt have much time but didn't an outer god attempt to manifest itself in Case Files novel? In that scene there was something along the lines of "no dimemsions" from the realm where the outer god was appearing in

This is me trying to remember the scene on a hurry btw
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Is this part of Nasuverse? Personally, this is the first time I hear about this
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
I domt have much time but didn't an outer god attempt to manifest itself in Case Files novel? In that scene there was something along the lines of "no dimemsions" from the realm where the outer god was appearing in

This is me trying to remember the scene on a hurry btw

Lord el-melloi case files volume 3
Click to expand...
Ouf. It's.. really interesting. I don't even know what to say. We don't have a description of the Outer Universe, but we know for sure that there are dimensions there, because Cthulhu and his non-Euclidean geometry. It is likely that it COULD be the embodiment of some monster from the Outer Universe (similar to when Caster in Fate/Zero summoned the incarnation of Cthulhu), but I don't see here anything that implies the Outer Universe, so that's really weird stuff.
 
MrUnderlord said:
Ouf. It's.. really interesting. I don't even know what to say. We don't have a description of the Outer Universe, but we know for sure that there are dimensions there, because Cthulhu and his non-Euclidean geometry. It is likely that it COULD be the embodiment of some monster from the Outer Universe (similar to when Caster in Fate/Zero summoned the incarnation of Cthulhu), but I don't see here anything that implies the Outer Universe, so that's really weird stuff.
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The whole thing takes up a hole chapter and like 6 pages so I left dome information out. I don't have time to go back and look though and I'm going by memory and old screenshots
 
MrUnderlord said:
Ouf. It's.. really interesting. I don't even know what to say. We don't have a description of the Outer Universe, but we know for sure that there are dimensions there, because Cthulhu and his non-Euclidean geometry. It is likely that it COULD be the embodiment of some monster from the Outer Universe (similar to when Caster in Fate/Zero summoned the incarnation of Cthulhu), but I don't see here anything that implies the Outer Universe, so that's really weird stuff.
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Where are you getting Cthulhu having non-Euclidean geometry from?
 
Mageman460 said:
Where are you getting Cthulhu having non-Euclidean geometry from?
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○雅号・異星蛸：Ｂ
深淵の邪神と混然となった境地で描かれる非ユークリッド幾何学的画風。

Pseudonym "Iseidako": B
The Octopus out of Space. Having blended with the evil god of the Abyss, his drawing style evokes non-Euclidean geometry.

funny things happens when guys just use other verse for their own)
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
The whole thing takes up a hole chapter and like 6 pages so I left dome information out. I don't have time to go back and look though and I'm going by memory and old screenshots
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Well, I read and looked at what you were talking about. It looks like some kind of Lovecraft monster, but nothing was directly said or implied. Most likely, this is just a reference to Lovecraft's monsters and it's not connected to the actual Outer Gods.
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
I domt have much time but didn't an outer god attempt to manifest itself in Case Files novel? In that scene there was something along the lines of "no dimemsions" from the realm where the outer god was appearing in

This is me trying to remember the scene on a hurry btw

Lord el-melloi case files volume 3
Click to expand...
Thats not an Outer God, thats one of Touko's familiars, it's one on the level of the one sealed in her body, and in the sealed box, which are later said to be on the level of the being they encounter in Spirit Tomb Albion
 
Tdjwo said:
To be honest, I don't know if you are implying that Yog-Sothoth is from another verse entirely separated from the Nasuverse but has a way of interfering with the Nasuverse.
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Soo what we should decide about that? This statement sounds like truth.
 
MrUnderlord said:
Soo what we should decide about that? This statement sounds like truth.
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Idk tbh.
I think we should scale the Yog-Sothoth based on what he has affected in the Nasuverse. That is, he should be Low 1A based on statements within the Nasuverse. I still don't think any being that exists in the Nasuverse should be as powerful as the root. That includes Yog-Sothoth since he couldn't override the root's law. Yog should always be at least a tier lower than the root. I personally think the root deserves an upgrade on this site as well imo.
 
Tdjwo said:
Idk tbh.
I think we should scale the Yog-Sothoth based on what he has affected in the Nasuverse. That is, he should be Low 1A based on statements within the Nasuverse. I still don't think any being that exists in the Nasuverse should be as powerful as the root. That includes Yog-Sothoth since he couldn't override the root's law. Yog should always be at least a tier lower than the root. I personally think the root deserves an upgrade on this site as well imo.
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True, that we should use tier only for the power within Nasuverse, that's true, but we also need to notice on his page that Yog from another verse. I think that should be fair
 
MrUnderlord said:
but we also need to notice on his page that Yog from another verse. I think that should be fair
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Not really. As long as the context is only derived from the Nasuverse, then we can claim it's the Nasuverse’s Yog-Sothoth. If it were supposed to be the Yog-Sothoth from Cthulhu Mythos, it would be a boundless being.
 
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Tdjwo said:
Not really. As long as the context is only derived from the Nasuverse, then we can claim it's the Nasuverse’s Yog-Sothoth. If it were supposed to be the Yog-Sothoth from Cthulhu Mythos, it would be a boundless being.
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Ok, but need some indications for independence from the Root
 
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