Nasuverse: Noble Phantasm Revisions

[Regidian]

The last thing you tell i'm okay with this, never contradict that. i just ask because it's specifically tell to show his true power when facing ennemy alien that are threat to the planet, just that

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Maybe if it was Excalibur Proto, who is shown to work like that. But normal Excalibur never has done so.

Saber even shows hers has restrictions as well, and she unlocks some of that in her Trial Quest. But they work completely different than Proto's restrictions. And if Saber Venus could also kill Sefar with an Anti-Planet, is makes more sense that Excalibur has it's normal power.

 

[Regidian]

Proto excalibur don't exist in some timeline so it sould not be able to have do that for every sephar of different time line no (since in most timeline it's was apparently getting killed by excalibur)? Well surely have to wait if this get more explored


But still okay with the rest

 

[PsychoWarper]

First and foremost destroying the Earth in Nasu is not a 5-B feat, its a 2-A (or 2-B, whatever shit you think) feat.

 

[LehenDuo]

First and foremost destroying the Earth in Nasu is not a 5-B feat, its a 2-A (or 2-B, whatever shit you think) feat.

Source: Voices in my head?

 

[PsychoWarper]

No its called Gaia, the Counter Force And the Textures.

I hope you know what those are.

 

[LehenDuo]

The things limited to Earth, the shitty planet which couldn't produce an Aristoteles?
Yeah...
Again - absolutely 0 feats to back that up.
It's just pure wank.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Yep that one.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So, again... Sefar at the end of Extella has no reason to be 2-A, and by consequence neither does Vasavi Shakti, nor Pashupata, nor Mahapralaya. It should still scale, at the bare minimum, to the strongest NPs we can find that aren't dura neg stuff.

Now let me see if I can stop stressing about college to gather the stuff for Adam.

 

[Regidian]

We don't know how planet produce their aristoteles so telling that the earth his shitty bcz of that it's not the best argument... (Even more when some of these aristoteles get their ass kicked by earthling)

 

[PsychoWarper]

Yeah, but we don't know literally anything about the Hindu Gods.

The most we can go off on is Arjuna Alter, and he is a mingle of each and every one of them at the same time.

The best I can see VS getting is "Possibly (whatever tier the top gods are)" by assuming that it can kill any God, no matter how strong. But even that is dubious because the strongest thing it is shown killing is Sefar, who was not 2-A at the time. And just assuming that "can kill Gods" applies to every God, no matter how much more powerful they are than other Gods, is difficult when we have practically no feats to back it up.

So, as always, the default is the best feat we see- Sefar getting murdered.

This isnt fully correct, we know that that Altjuna says that the Energy of a Fantasy Tree (Which Holmes states are comparable to Goetia) is comparable to the First God he ate, who is often assumed to be Krishna (Not a top tier Hindu God), although he does go on to say that a Fantasy Tree is > to the First God he ate he still believed they where close enough to compare them.

“The mana output alone is similar to Goetia’s, and the heat it’s producing could incinerate the Earth’s surface.”

“This is similar to the power I felt when I absorbed my first God! No, it’s even greater than that---!!!'”

So if we where follow this logic then its “Goetia > Krishna” which means while the mid tier Hindu God lower on the scaling chain than Goetia it would still be 2-A.

 

[LehenDuo]

So if we where follow this logic then its “Goetia > Krishna” which means while the mid tier Hindu God lower on the scaling chain than Goetia it would still be 2-A.

Even the 2-A assumes AAS, which isn't Goetia itself.

 

[PsychoWarper]

The things limited to Earth, the shitty planet which couldn't produce an Aristoteles?
Yeah...
Again - absolutely 0 feats to back that up.
It's just pure wank.

Also while shes may not technically be a Type there is Arcueid who is the Archetype Earth and iirc one of the strongest Nasuverse characters so theres that, also isnt it the Counter Force that summons the Grand Servants (And supports them) who fight Beasts and iirc is it not the Counter Force that prunes Timelines?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

This is a leap in logic, actually. The moment he says "no, it's even greater still" with no context, it could be greater by a small amount or an infinite amount. We just know it's greater, but not by how much. All I get from him making the comparison is that he is feeling a great surge of strength like he when ate his first God.

Not to mention the fact of assuming "it must be Krishna" with absolutely no reasoning.

Let's not derail into stuff about how strong Earth is, please.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Even the 2-A assumes AAS, which isn't Goetia itself.

AAS is 2-A when its Beast Goetia tho... also where is this thing about AAS from?

 

[PsychoWarper]

This is a leap in logic, actually. The moment he says "no, it's even greater still" with no context, it could be greater by a small amount or an infinite amount. We just know it's greater, but not by how much. All I get from him making the comparison is that he is feeling a great surge of strength like he when ate his first God.

Not to mention the fact of assuming "it must be Krishna" with absolutely no reasoning.

Let's not derail into stuff about how strong Earth is, please.

We assume its Krishna because he used Krishna’s Authority to absorb the rest of the Hindu Pantheon.

 

[LehenDuo]

AAS is 2-A when its Beast Goetia tho... also where is this thing about AAS from?

Ars Almadel Salomonis, Goetia using the entirety of human history as fuel, through a 3000 year plan
Which is obviously an externality, and therefore, not Goetia's power

We assume its Krishna because he used Krishna’s Authority to absorb the rest of the Hindu Pantheon.

That kind of contradicts that Krishna is ''mid tier'' if his Authority could absorb an entire Pantheon

 

[PsychoWarper]

Ars Almadel Salomonis, Goetia using the entirety of human history as fuel, through a 3000 year plan
Which is obviously an externality, and therefore, not Goetia's power


That kind of contradicts that Krishna is ''mid tier''

I know what AAS is im asking why you are using that when Holmes said Goetia not AAS?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

If he had to use Krishna to absorb all of the rest of the pantheon, how did he absorb Krishna...? If Kirshna has the capacity to absorb every God in the massive Hindu Pantheon, how does that make him a mid-tier?

 

[PsychoWarper]

That kind of contradicts that Krishna is ''mid tier'' if his Authority could absorb an entire Pantheon

Actually I will admit I was wrong on that part, Krishna is comparable to Vishnu which means he is an upper tier.

 

[LehenDuo]

Because the only thing Goetia can do that is anywhere close to 2-A is AAS (which is still wrong, but yeah)
And you are calling them 2-A

 

[PsychoWarper]

Because the only thing Goetia can do that is anywhere close to 2-A is AAS (which is still wrong, but yeah)

Actually no, being a Beast make him 2-A.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Let's keep it to VS and not stray off unnecessarily.

The point remains though. By pure feats, all that Vasavi has killed is a Sefar that is not 2-A. Everything beyond that is in the realm of speculation with no solid ground to support it on.

At best, it would warrant a "Possibly".

 

[PsychoWarper]

Also for the “leap in logic” part about how it could be infinitely greater in power if the difference was that massive why would Altjuna have even compared it in the first place if the difference was that huge? Infinitely apart would be a noticeable difference so it would be within reason to think they are close enough to be compared.

 

[LehenDuo]

Let's keep it to VS and not stray off unnecessarily.

I try, but 2-A keeps coming haha

At best, it would warrant a "Possibly".

Even Possibly requires proof, and we know 3rd stage (it was the third stage they fought, right? don't remember it by heart) Extra Sefar is not comparable to True Sefar

 

[PsychoWarper]

Let's keep it to VS and not stray off unnecessarily.

The point remains though. By pure feats, all that Vasavi has killed is a Sefar that is not 2-A. Everything beyond that is in the realm of speculation with no solid ground to support it on.

At best, it would warrant a "Possibly".

Hmm, I guess for now I can accept a possibly rating for it.

 

[Regidian]

MHX was just as strong as a regular servant. If she has the power to destroy stars, but is matched by Servants, Servants would have the same power... (And she's a joke character, in a joke event, made in referencce to Star Wars...)

EXTRA is a video-game of a video-game, me deleting my Minecraft world doesn't make me 5-C
And Moon Cell couldn't handle infinity in 4D, so 2-A would be a lie

For that well she have this power only with this skill so no change the thing to being matched by servant habitualy (she still servant lvl even after obtain her XEX skill and os a thing that is galaxie sized)


But well for the moon cell couldn't handle infinity in 4D, have you the quote of that ? I don't remember seing it (except if it's from extra CCC i don't have entirely read it so wouldn't know)

 

[PsychoWarper]

A normal servant could have a Star level NP and still fight other servants as they would physically still be Low 7-B and not every attack is Star level.

(This is assuming its an NP or something similar)

 

[LehenDuo]

For that well she have this power only with this skill so no change the thing to being matched by servant habitualy (she still servant lvl even after obtain her XEX skill and os a thing that is galaxie sized)


But well for the moon cell couldn't handle infinity in 4D, have you the quote of that ? I don't remember seing it (except if it's from extra CCC i don't have entirely read it so wouldn't know)

The topic with the infinity 4d image has been deleted in the move it seems
Will see if I can find it elsewhere

 

[Regidian]

The topic with the infinity 4d image has been deleted in the move it seems
Will see if I can find it elsewhere

Ty

 

[LehenDuo]

A normal servant could have a Star level NP and still fight other servants as they would physically still be Low 7-B and not every attack is Star level.

(This is assuming its an NP or something similar)

Not an NP, it's a passive skill that references the sword (''armament'') itself.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Even Possibly requires proof, and we know 3rd stage (it was the third stage they fought, right? don't remember it by heart) Extra Sefar is not comparable to True Sefar

I mean, if the majority really thinks that even Possibly is a no no, I don't mind dropping it.

But going off the definition of "Possibly" as a rating, I think is a good way to settle the doubts because we really don't know if even top gods are off the possible kill zone of Vasavi. Even if it only dealt some damage, it would already scale.

There's no strong proof either what is the maximum strength of a God it can hurt, leaving us this conundrum.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Not an NP, it's a passive skill that references the sword itself.

Ah... ok then that is definitely its own thing.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

So, again, both VS and K&K are for sure not 2-A now, with a caveat for possibly on VS unless the majority still considers the lack of proof sufficient to discard even that.

 

[Regidian]

It's a skill for her sword and her sword is the NP but like i tell it's this skill that allowed to cut the temple of astarte and even after that she was still servant lvl so shouldn't scall anyway

 

[Regidian]

So, again, both VS and K&K are for sure not 2-A now, with a caveat for possibly on VS unless the majority still considers the lack of proof sufficient to discard even that

In lb4 we need to weakened lb king arjuna alter to allow super karna to fight him no? But yeah for remove the 2-A

 

[PsychoWarper]

So, again, both VS and K&K are for sure not 2-A now, with a caveat for possibly on VS unless the majority still considers the lack of proof sufficient to discard even that.

I agree with removing the 2-A Dura from K&K since its most definitely “far higher” based off how the thing works.

but im curious what will the “At least Tier” be for VS?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I mean-

For the interim, you can just scale it to the top values we have for any NP. It is pretty much at the top, or near the top, of the pinnacle we have for brute strength NPs.

Sefar is not 2-A, but she's still damn strong even at 64 m tall. And Achilles shield, which should withstand almost everything that isn't an Anti-World, broke as a result of blocking the thing.

Like, I would scale it above the Gugalanna calc. If the thing can kill Divine Beasts, as the description in the novel notes, being at least comparable to Gugalanna's stomping sounds sensible.

 

[LehenDuo]

Like, I would scale it above the Gugalanna calc. If the thing can kill Divine Beasts, as the description in the novel notes, being at least comparable to Gugalanna's stomping sounds sensible.

There's Arthur Proto Excalibur (in the short video of Prototype, which I believe had 7/13 seals released) and Ramesseum Tentyris, which are the highest calcs for NPs as far as I know, that could be used as base to scale. (Unless the calcs are outdated)

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The specific calc doesn't matter I believe, just something proper that is pretty powerful.

I mainly mentioned the Gugalanna one because if it can kill even Divine Beasts, then being at least comparable to the attack of one sounds reasonable.

Especially since Ishtar's second NP is making Gugalanna stomp his hoove down, which is classified as an Anti-Army A+, so below Vasavi in power.