Naruto VS Zoro

[Noneless21]

Alrite, so zoro has aoe, range, and better at CQC, while naruto has number and genjutsu which is win gg for naruto, so how will the battle commence then hmmm

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

He can't do anything. The genjutsu doesn't just bind your psyche/mind, it binds your body as well and prevents you from moving. Your body is completely helpless and paralyzed. That's not at all the same thing as Kienmon being cut in half and being able to move.

ANYWAY, I was under the impression that this is War Arc Sage Naruto. If that's the case, then it's not in character for him to use the toad sages at all.
If y'all want Naruto to use the toads, and even have extra Sage clones as back-up to extend his Sage Mode's time limit, then this should be switched to Pain Arc Naruto.
Naruto's chances would improve in that case.

Also, just for clarity's sake, yes the toads were going to use the genjutsu on Pain when fighting alongside Naruto. So the argument that they wouldn't, is simply false. They even paralyzed Pain's summons iirc.
Also, they're not helpless, weak creatures. They're pretty much just as strong as Sage Naruto himself.

If zoro wasn't paralyzed he would be able to move tho...

Anyway what if Zoro uses his fear manipulation on the toads making it so they disrupt their chakra flow?

Also doesn't zoro resist part of the genjutsu because of the resistance to spatial manipulation?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

and better at CQC

Not really lol

If zoro wasn't paralyzed he would be able to move tho...

Well, he's paralyzed, so too bad.

Anyway what if Zoro uses his fear manipulation on the toads making it so they disrupt their chakra flow?

That won't happen because he'll be completely incapacitated if he's caught in the Jutsu. He won't have any control over his body.

Also doesn't zoro resist part of the genjutsu because of the resistance to spatial manipulation?

No, he doesn't, because it's not literal Spatial Manipulation, it's just mental binding as I showed in the scan. I have no idea why that shit's on the profile tbh.

EDIT: the profile doesn't actually have Spatial Manipulation, so that's good.

 

[Noneless21]

If zoro wasn't paralyzed he would be able to move tho...

Anyway what if Zoro uses his fear manipulation on the toads making it so they disrupt their chakra flow?

Also doesn't zoro resist part of the genjutsu because of the resistance to spatial manipulation?

I think spatial manip resistance didn't play the role here because only your mind that was "send" into different place so i guess zoro dodn't resist that type os spatial manip

I mean, if he indeed can induce fear on them, then they will probably start the genjutsu preparation because they know zoro is an enemy they cen't pull their punches with

 

[Noneless21]

Anyway, if ma and pa did indeed immedietly start their genjutsu preparation after the match startes then zoro's wincon will be dwindled

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Anyway, if ma and pa did indeed immedietly start their genjutsu preparation after the match startes then zoro's wincon will be dwindled

Nah, he can still kill Naruto before they pull it off. His ranged attacks are spammable.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Also, like I said before, if this is War Arc Sage Naruto then this whole discussion is pointless because he won't summon the toads regardless.

 

[theultimate5105]

There is enough evidence... He counters the genjutsu via observation haki

No that does not work Naruto has all kinds of 6th sense abilities which still get effected

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That won't happen because he'll be completely incapacitated if he's caught in the Jutsu. He won't have any control over his body.

He doesn't need any control over his body... He'll just release insane amount of blood lust

Also zoro via willpower can survive death which mean his fear can kill people

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

No that does not work Naruto has all kinds of 6th sense abilities which still get effected

Proof?

All kinds? NLF

 

[Noneless21]

Well zoro will get close to naruto anyway until naruto's frog kumite overwhelms him then he can spam ranged attacks

 

[theultimate5105]

Proof?

The fact that sensory shinobi, SM users and other people with 6th senses are still effected by genjutsu and are not immune because they can sense through other ways

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

The fact that sensory shinobi, SM users and other people with 6th senses are still effected by genjutsu and are not immune because they can sense through other ways

Not 6th sense.

That's presence sensing... This is what's on his profile
Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception (Can sense attacks without directly seeing them, allowing him to dodge appropriately and can detect targets over great distances)

Nothing about having a 6th sense

Stop using things that isn't on his profile or without any proof to back it up.

 

[theultimate5105]

Not 6th sense.

That's presence sensing... This is what's on his profile
Enhanced Senses and Extrasensory Perception (Can sense attacks without directly seeing them, allowing him to dodge appropriately and can detect targets over great distances)

Nothing about having a 6th sense

Stop using things that isn't on his profile or without any proof to back it up.

That literally means it negs observation from doing anything of note and yes they are practically sixth senses

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

That literally means it negs observation from doing anything of note and yes they are practically sixth senses

Neg observation haki?

Abilities that are granted by this type of Haki are varying levels of Extrasensory Perception, Telepathy, Precognition, Information Analysis, Enhanced Senses, and Instinctive Reaction (the last two are elaborated on here).

You already know this

and yes they are practically sixth senses

No proof.

 

[theultimate5105]

Neg observation haki?

Abilities that are granted by this type of Haki are varying levels of Extrasensory Perception, Telepathy, Precognition, Information Analysis, Enhanced Senses, and Instinctive Reaction (the last two are elaborated on here).

You already know this

No proof.

Telepathy is extremely limited, Instinctive reaction is useless as he cannot move, Precog and Info analysis means nothing without being able to sense anything with your other senses

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Telepathy is extremely limited

No it is not.

Anticipate the enemy's movements! Read your opponent's mind and sense his next move! This ability can help you avoid enemy attacks. This ability can be applied in a variety of situations, such as avoiding an enemy's attack, or anticipating their movements and hitting them with an attack.

Grasping the surrounding situation! Use your supremacy ability in all directions.
The number of fierce beasts can be directed to grasp the number and location of creatures around you that you cannot see.
You can see the number and location of creatures around you that you cannot see. With increased skill and accuracy, you can even see how powerful your opponent is.

foresight

The higher the user's ability, the greater the range of colors that can be used!

It is a supreme power that sharpens the five senses and perceives signs! This is the supremacy that allows you to sense the presence of living things around you, as well as their emotional movements. Not only in battle, but also in danger.
It is effective not only in battle, but also in foreseeing and avoiding dangers and hazards!

Even tho rough translation

Instinctive reaction is useless as he cannot move

I know.

Precog and Info analysis means nothing without being able to sense anything with your other senses

What?

 

[speedster352]

Naruto can spam shadow clones and have them use Rasengan and rasenshuriken then make a distraction for ma and pa to use Genjutsu

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Naruto can spam shadow clones and have them use Rasengan and rasenshuriken then make a distraction for ma and pa to use Genjutsu

Naruto can't spam clones while in Sage Mode unfortunately.

 

[theultimate5105]

No it is not.

Even tho rough translation


I know.


What?

Yes Precog would actually need them to be able to sense stuff in the presense before seeing the future. Hell Zoro does not have advanced so his precog is trash. Info Analysis literally does not work without something to actually analyze
Read his mind would work if again you weren't incapped. (also he would have to read multiple peoples/frogs minds which IIRC Haki has never done)

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Hell Zoro does not have advanced so his precog is trash.

Not true. He literally knows the future

Info Analysis literally does not work without something to actually analyze

Info analysis is from reading people stats and abilities

With increased skill and accuracy, you can even see how powerful your opponent is.

Read his mind would work if again you weren't incapped. (also he would have to read multiple peoples/frogs minds which IIRC Haki has never done)

The number of fierce beasts can be directed to grasp the number and location of creatures around you that you cannot see.

This is the supremacy that allows you to sense the presence of living things around you, as well as their emotional movements.

 

[theultimate5105]

Not true. He literally knows the future


Info analysis is from reading people stats and abilities

No he literally doesn't he at best sees a tiny bit into the future
Yeah great now just a minor issue of not seeing them as he is in a genjutsu
Also none of those statements contradict what I said the first is literally just ESP the second doesn't specify a number or make it seem to be above 1

 

[Noneless21]

Yeah zoro's kenbun is not as good as luffy's sadly so zoro cannot just go precog immedietly

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yeah zoro's kenbun is not as good as luffy's sadly so zoro cannot just go precog immedietly

he literally can...

Haki users actively uses observation haki to outprecog each other

No he literally doesn't he at best sees a tiny bit into the future

He doesn't see into the future, he literally knows the future, what you mean at best?

 

[Noneless21]

I actually didn't remember when zoro uses his kenbun that good so we might need some scan to proof it

 

[Lugh_Tuathe_Dé]

Leaning towards to zoro

 

[theultimate5105]

he literally can...

Haki users actively uses observation haki to outprecog each other

He doesn't see into the future, he literally knows the future, what you mean at best?

yeah no the only ones who do that are literally ones with advanced observation
He doesn’t know the future he can barely see into the future at all and is nowhere close to where you think he is

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I actually didn't remember when zoro uses his kenbun that good so we might need some scan to proof it

Zoro is proficient observation haki user making him the same tier as doffy and luffy in dressrosa, doffy, luffy and law all used observation haki to outprecog each other and stuff...

In manga it is very hard to know when they use it... They most we could see was with luffy's fight against katakuri which they both talk about observation haki and are actively using obs haki to outprecog each other

yeah no the only ones who do that are literally ones with advanced observation
He doesn’t know the future he can barely see into the future at all and is nowhere close to where you think he is

This is literally the basics of observation haki

Anticipate the enemy's movements! Read your opponent's mind and sense his next move! This ability can help you avoid enemy attacks. This ability can be applied in a variety of situations, such as avoiding an enemy's attack, or anticipating their movements and hitting them with an attack.

It is effective not only in battle, but also in foreseeing and avoiding dangers and hazards!

Knowing the future

 

[speedster352]

yeah no the only ones who do that are literally ones with advanced observation
He doesn’t know the future he can barely see into the future at all and is nowhere close to where you think he is

Also sage mode gives Naruto an ability similar to observation haki I am still voting Naruto

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Also sage mode gives Naruto an ability similar to observation haki I am still voting Naruto

No it doesn't.

 

[Noneless21]

Yeah naruto do have extrasensory with sage mode similiar to kenbun tho kenbun is better in my opinion because itbalso read the intent of your opponent

 

[theultimate5105]

Zoro is proficient observation haki user making him the same tier as doffy and luffy in dressrosa, doffy, luffy and law all used observation haki to outprecog each other and stuff...

In manga it is very hard to know when they use it... They most we could see was with luffy's fight against katakuri which they both talk about observation haki and are actively using obs haki to outprecog each other


This is literally the basics of observation haki


Knowing the future

They are literally just using observation after the other uses it causing them to account for the others observation haki
none of that states they know the future it’s literally just them using intent sensing to figure out what the opponents next move will be

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

No it doesn't.

Kinda does. He can sense danger, attacks, and negative intent better than KCM, and his sensing range extends up to hundreds if not thousands of kilometers going by War Arc feats.

 

[Noneless21]

Well the version we're using now is the pain arc with the toads so it may not span that much tho the time fram can say otherwise

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

They are literally just using observation after the other uses it causing them to account for the others observation haki
none of that states they know the future it’s literally just them using intent sensing to figure out what the opponents next move will be

Literally knows the future... What are you talking about

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Kinda does. He can sense danger, attacks, and negative intent better than KCM, and his sensing range extends up to hundreds if not thousands of kilometers going by War Arc feats.

And that means it's the same as observation haki when all it can do is presence sense and danger sense.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And that means it's the same as observation haki when all it can do is presence sense and danger sense.

It's more or less the same, minus precog and telepathy, but with better range.

 

[Noneless21]

Then we can assume that zoro know what naruto and his gang will be doing and try to exploit his range advantages to his fullest while naruto just need to buy time for the genjutsu to kick in and it will be gg for naruto

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

It's more or less the same, minus precog and telepathy, but with better range.

Minus information analysis, minus Instinctive Reaction, minus Enhanced Hearing, minus Aura Vision: The ability to see hormonal output, minus X-Ray Vision: The ability to see through an object, minus Emotion Vision: The ability to see the emotions of others, minus Soul Vision: Ability to see souls, spirits, and ghosts, minus Enhanced Sixth: Users of this rare ability can feel changes without knowing how or why... and more we don't know off

Pls... Don't do this to me

 

[Arkenis]

BELOW gamabunta. Gamabunta is 6-C so he's restricted here.
Well honestly it depends of @TauanVictor he cant restrict the other two toads but he can restrict gamabunta since he's one of the 3 legeendary summons and scales above large mountain.

If we restrict Gamabunta doesn't it just disqualify the match from being added?