Naruto tso revision

[LordGriffin1000]

Griffin blatantly ignored my reply

...I didn't ignore your reply. I'm commenting on things quickly because my phone is about to die and I was focusing on Shadow and UchihaSlayers comments first.

Physical EE exists you know......
There is no statement about TSO being capable of erasing someone's soul, or very existance.

And Minato's thing is power null.

So yeah, there is in fact a problem with treating TSO as Soul EE.

I know physical EE is a thing, I assumed we were only talking about physical erasure. I don't remember the thread in which it was accepted as soul erasure so I didn't comment on it.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

know physical EE is a thing, I assumed we were only talking about physical erasure. I don't remember the thread in which it was accepted as soul erasure so I didn't comment on it.

Well, actually there are some people who actually think that it erases Soul aswell.
We need to stablish types of EE, so people don't get confused.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Well, actually there are some people who actually think that it erases Soul aswell.

chakra in naruto is very dynamic

 

[Zencha9]

well it's accepted that ninjutsu affects the soul from a previous crt so you have to go through that first
(though my memory is fuzzy so feel free to correct me if i said anything wrong)

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Chakra and Soul are linked, yes. But they are not the same thing. Unless you can show that it specifically erases the soul part, then this still physical EE.

 

[RoyGundam]

IIRC "Soul" in Naruto has the shape of the body and can be partially affected, like when Hiruzen sealed Orochimaru's arms only. TSOs appear to work in a similar manner with Edo Tensei zombies - that are essentially souls with reconstructable bodies - where it destroys even the soul of something hit by it. This is just my understanding of the power

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

IIRC "Soul" in Naruto has the shape of the body and can be partially affected, like when Hiruzen sealed Orochimaru's arms only. TSOs appear to work in a similar manner with Edo Tensei zombies - that are essentially souls with reconstructable bodies - where it destroys even the soul of something hit by it. This is just my understanding of the power

TSO never destroyed soul and hiruzen case is different.

 

[RoyGundam]

TSO never destroyed soul

Edo-Minato couldn't regenerate parts of his body destroyed by the TSO i.e. it destroyed the parts of the soul where it hit

 

[Damage3245]

Edo-Minato couldn't regenerate parts of his body destroyed by the TSO i.e. it destroyed the parts of the soul where it hit

That doesn't mean it destroyed the soul.

 

[RoyGundam]

That doesn't mean it destroyed the soul.

In chapter 691, when Minato's soul was released by Hagoromo, it clearly didn't have arms
Minato's soul has no arms

 

[RoyGundam]

Scroll to page 18

 

[RoyGundam]

In chapter 691, when Minato's soul was released by Hagoromo, it clearly didn't have arms
Minato's soul has no arms

Poor dude can't even jerk off in heaven

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Edo-Minato couldn't regenerate parts of his body destroyed by the TSO i.e. it destroyed the parts of the soul where it hit

Check TSO threads. Its clearly discussed and come to conclusions that TSO doesn't effect souls.

 

[RoyGundam]

Check TSO threads. Its clearly discussed and come to conclusions that TSO doesn't effect souls.

But like I have mentioned earlier, when Hagoromo releases Minato's soul, it clearly doesn't have arms

 

[Damage3245]

But like I have mentioned earlier, when Hagoromo releases Minato's soul, it clearly doesn't have arms

That just means that the arms went back to the Pure World, not that they were destroyed.

 

[RoyGundam]

That just means that the arms went back to the Pure World, not that they were destroyed.

Hagoromo had just summoned all the Kage's souls from the Pure world, why wouldn't he have restored Minato's soul?

 

[RoyGundam]

That just means that the arms went back to the Pure World, not that they were destroyed.

Also that's just another interpretation which has no additional backing (in fact, less of a backing IMO) than the interpretation that the arm parts of Minato's soul were destroyed

 

[Deadguy]

That just means that the arms went back to the Pure World, not that they were destroyed.

Is there any evidence to back this up? I'm not really a naruto expert but I can't recall any statement like that so if there is nothing then this claim is just pure assumption

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

As far as the soul stuff is related, here's the thread linked in the Naruto discussion rules. Whether it's dated or still relevant, I'm unaware, but you may be able to find some answers here.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Also that's just another interpretation which has no additional backing (in fact, less of a backing IMO) than the interpretation that the arm parts of Minato's soul were destroyed

Because neither interpretation is outright stated so we use the safest assumption.

 

[M3X_2.0]

"safest". Everyone knows the TSO erased his soul, and we pretty much know why we don't use it.

 

[BleachHollow]

"safest". Everyone knows the TSO erased his soul, and we pretty much know why we don't use it.

So Minato's soul resides on his arms?

 

[M3X_2.0]

Nice one mate, I almost laughed.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Nice one mate, I almost laughed.

Nope, sorry to break it for you, but it's currently accepted as Power Null.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I know, and this literally has nothing to do with that I said.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

"safest". Everyone knows the TSO erased his soul, and we pretty much know why we don't use it.

Physical EE exists you know......
There is no statement about TSO being capable of erasing someone's soul, or very existance.

And Minato's thing is power null.

So yeah, there is in fact a problem with treating TSO as Soul EE.

I hope you check EE explanation page.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Dude just chill, try to ignore my comment because it seems you're not understanding what I said, you and @God900. Go ahead and finish the thread.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This ability's destructive power is not absolute, and one should not assume that it can erase the soul by default.

Existence Erasure

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind. Powerful...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Pretty much this is what it states

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah

Heavily disagreeing w/ the CRT

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Yeah

Heavily disagreeing w/ the CRT

̶S̶o̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶Y̶a̶n̶k̶e̶e̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶ ̶T̶S̶O̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶S̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶E̶E̶.̶ ̶

 

[Damage3245]

̶S̶o̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶Y̶a̶n̶k̶e̶e̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶ ̶T̶S̶O̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶S̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶E̶E̶.̶ ̶

Why did you respond to him with that?

 

[KingTempest]

̶S̶o̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶Y̶a̶n̶k̶e̶e̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶ ̶T̶S̶O̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶S̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶E̶E̶.̶ ̶

I could make a huge case for it, but that's really not my place

 

[Shadyboi0]

̶S̶o̶r̶r̶y̶ ̶Y̶a̶n̶k̶e̶e̶,̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶d̶o̶e̶s̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶n̶g̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶f̶a̶c̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶ ̶T̶S̶O̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶S̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶E̶E̶.̶ ̶

Sorry Yankee, it doesn't change the fact that this response was uncalled for.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

This ability's destructive power is not absolute, and one should not assume that it can erase the soul by default.

Existence Erasure

Existence Erasure is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind. Powerful...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Pretty much this is what it states

This is not why people believe in Soul destruction.

You can absolutely argue for it, it's just very contentious and not everyone wants to deal with walls of text and long winded arguments.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Why did you respond to him with that?

Nah just kidding, that's the term we, foreigners use to design people from the U.S, becouse Tempest is American IIRC, that's why I called him Yankee, but not with any bad intention.

 

[RoyGundam]

Honestly I think it's kind of a dick move on Hagoromo's part to summon the soul of every Kage that has ever existed only to then not restore Minato's arms, thereby denying him the one opportunity to give his only son a hug on his birthday

As far as the soul erasure thing is considered, the currently accepted version requires more assumptions IMO than to simply say that the soul was erased (while both are valid interpretations given the data) and is only accepted because there is some vagueness about the power and because it is the lower interpretation

 

[Reio35]

Sigh.....
Well, it's time to give the people what they want.
I have to say, you've really outdone yourself with this one, Reio.

Hmmmm, you are indeed correct. I've never seen them display any properties of an existence eraser.

Thanks for countering your own point, I guess?

I guess you're not big on context, eh? This is not Tobirama stating that Yin-Yang Release literally only has the property of nullifying Ninjutsu. Prior to Obito stating that he possesses the same power as Hagoromo, Tobirama and Minato were speculating as to why Minato's arm did not regenerate yet. This was the direct answer to that mystery, so of course they would highlight its ability to nullify Ninjutsu, especially since it was also a brand new ability.
A certain property being highlighted does not in any way negate the existence of other properties, AT ALL. This is an even worse point in the broader context because we know for a fact that Yin-Yang Release has a plethora of effects and uses that were displayed. I explained this in detail in my OP.

Uh, yeah, I guess we'll see about that, won't we?

Really? This is the best you could come up with? You do realize TSOs physically, tangibly, exist and have mass, right? So them being flung at near Light Speed by characters like Madara would obviously create a physical impact when it makes contact with the ground. There's a reason why characters still use the TSOs as blunt weapons, even when their hax is rendered null and void due to Six Paths resistances. This point is, quite literally, moot.

Hiruzin stated tso turn things to dust on contact. So as soon as it makes contact with the ground it should be erased using your logic. Yet we only see dust which is consistent with his statement

First of all, this is not even vaporization. In the colored version we can clearly that it's just dust, rather than smoke or vapor. This was exactly like the other time Obito's TSO expanded and created a lot of dust. This is, once again, because the TSOs have mass and physical force behind them, regardless of what you believe their hax properties are, so them physically colliding with objects would cause physical destruction. Also, this particular instance is pretty weird given that the "expansion" was blue in color, and was even given a slightly different shading in the manga, implying that maybe it was just an explosion rather than the jet black expansion we saw earlier. If this is indeed the case, then this point is completely null and void since we know that when a TSO is transmuted in any way, it gains completely new/different properties, and possibly lacks ones it had before. (Such as turning into a metal cage, a wind attack, a Chakra Receiver, etc). An explosion would be no different.
It's also VERY important to keep in mind that the TSO's hax are all strictly contact based, meaning they are limited to the TSO's surface area, which is usually very small. Anything beyond its surface area will not be affected by the hax because it's simply not making contact with the balls. This is extremely important to keep in mind moving forward.

So? I mean this would literally apply even if the TSOs just had molecular destruction. I don't know why you're treating this like a triumphant anti-feat for EE, when it's just a weird outlier in general. Also, it's pretty dumb to expect Kishimoto to take time out of the important events unfolding at the time to choose to highlight such an insignificant thing as the staff sinking through the floor. Finally, this was a dying Obito that had absorbed a sliver of Madara's chakra. All we know is that he had a vague amount of Six Paths chakra, but he hadn't even showcased any of the TSOs usual properties, or any other Juubi Jin characteristics for that matter, which makes sense because he's not.

Once again, the TSOs are extremely small, and don't affect anything beyond their tiny surface area. Since you can' show us the exact point in the ground on which they are situated, you cannot prove that the part of the ground they were in contact with did not get erased, or dusted for that matter. Like, honestly your arguments so far have been such nonfactors, it's not even funny.
Also, I have been playing along so far, but I would like to further point out another reason why this whole "they didn't erase the ground they made contact with" argument is super irrelevant anyway, generally speaking. Truth Seekers' effects are inapplicable to things that contain Nature Energy, Six Paths Chakra, or both. Guess what contains Nature Energy? That's right.............Nature itself! So it's actually not possible for the Yin-Yang empowered hax to affect the terrain lol. This would only leave the physical energy produced by the balls and the basic matter manipulation that the non Yin-Yang empowered TSOs have, which is consistent with what we consistently see.
To add insult to injury, you pretty much picked the worst possible example here. As we all know, Kaguya can control her dimensions and their terrain using her chakra, as well as showing the ability to literally fuse with them. This means that her dimensions more than likely contain Six Paths chakra as well. That's right, the other thing that TSOs don't affect.....

Tso was turning ninja tools to dust which aren't made of chakra by your logic it should be immune. Yet it still worked. Since your saying it's superior to dust release. It should be able to erase rocks and meteors like dust release.

I could just be lazy and say "same as above", but nah.
This one isn't even accepted as a TSO lol. This is currently accepted as Naruto transmuting his TSOs into Chakra Rods in order to keep Madara in place and pin him down, which was the whole point. A black rod of death that erases whatever it touches and simply sinks into the ground wouldn't help Naruto pin down and paralyze someone who's immune to the hax anyway, now would it?

Yeah, no. You used a few obscure, inconsequential, and irrelevant examples erroneously and with no regard for context, all the while ignoring all the examples, context, and explanations I provided in my OP. You did not, in any meaningful way, counter my points.
It's funny, but I remember the first time you came on that thread nearly a year ago and made an attempt at "debunking it". You were shut down, and for good reason, but I honestly can't believe that your arguments have somehow gotten worse lmao. I genuinely don't think you have read my OP, at least not earnestly and without bias.
In any case, it might be helpful for you and everyone else to read this part of the OP carefully...


This part isn't even really worth addressing at this point, so I'll just make a few additional points instead.

The word "erase" is actually rarely used in the Naruto series. For example, it is never used to refer to Onoki's Dust Release to my knowledge. Jinton is usually described using words such as destroy, disassemble, or turn to dust. So the argument that the word "erased" is abused, misused, or otherwise misrepresented in the series is not only baseless, it's outright false. So take these whataboutisms regarding other works of fiction out of the argument, please. They are utterly inconsequential.
Finally, as I already explained in my OP, the ETSB was stated to be capable of reducing a dimension/world "to nothing". This was graciously re-translated by Arc in order for us to be sure, and it did indeed use that exact term. I already meticulously explained the context of the destruction and why the smaller ETSB should inherit this property of the bigger one, so I won't get into that too much here. It's already self-evident.

And that's all she wrote.
I hope I won't have to deal with this again.

Anyway ninth hour translated the scan it doesn't say anything arc said point is null

 

[Reio35]

Ninth hour vsb official site translator. Translated the scans and it indeed does not say erased

 

[KingTempest]

vsb official site translator

We don't... have an official site translator

And I'm pretty sure the same kanji for "obliterate" works for "erasure"

 

[PrinceofPein]

The fact that tso hit Minato arm as an edo tensei and he did not regenerate back well we can assume it is either power null or EE as it was stated, but then we went with the safest assumption that it is physical EE and power null of the edo Tensei regeneration but then we got more details when hagoromo summoned the Kages back from the pure land and Minato soul itself was missing its arms after the soul left the edo tensei construct which means his soul itself no longer as arms and it has been erased.
So yes it is a solid EE but well it is HST let’s make everything complicated cause well it is HST.