Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[Ghostimuscrime]

Ghost is Pregante??!?!?!?!?!?!?

smh cant even spell
average jjk fan

 

[Iabihs]

Your thinking on this is flawed unfortunately.

Code having his Limiters removed and amping the Ten-tails isn’t a commentary on anything dealing with Jigen as Jigen is weaker than him anyways.

We have no idea how strong that Ten-tails is compared to Jigen and it doesn’t matter if it’s stated when it’s literally shown to us.

So a “Juubi Amped Jigen” can’t be written off by this statement.

So what your saying is all this statement means is Code is atleast more then half of Jigen...(not that it matters, Juubi amped jigen is headcannon i think, he admits he borrows power from it other times as well)

 

[Samlex1234]

Ghost is Pregante??!?!?!?!?!?!?

 

[Iabihs]

smh cant even spell
average jjk fan

Me no speak

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

oh brother

 

[Iabihs]

oh brother

Dont kill my entire family bloodline pls.

 

[Samlex1234]

So what your saying is all this statement means is Code is atleast more then half of Jigen...(not that it matters, Juubi amped jigen is headcannon i think, he admits he borrows power from it other times as well)

Yeah honestly, if Juubi Amp Jigen was some how greater than No Limiters code, why did he need to nerf himself? When Juubi amp Jigen can take him out. To me, it is a copuim mechanism because Code has not lived up to the hype.

 

[Iabihs]

Out of Curiosity

Is Toneri Not Planet level because

A: hes not destroying the planet and it got debunked its only surface wiping

B: because the way hes doing it and could do it on 2 occasions both dont scale to his normal statistics(roche limit gravity / being empowered by narutos chakra and sun energy).


Dont give the arguments just A or B cus i remember he was on his wiki a few months ago.

It was because B right?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Out of Curiosity

Is Toneri Not Planet level because

A: hes not destroying the planet and it got debunked its only surface wiping

B: because the way hes doing it and could do it on 2 occasions both dont scale to his normal statistics(roche limit gravity / being empowered by narutos chakra and sun energy).


Dont give the arguments just A or B cus i remember he was on his wiki a few months ago.

It was because B right?

Neither really hits the nail on the head. Toneri has 3 scaling feats, cutting the moon in half (5-Cish), moving the moon (low 5-Bish), and LoJ (currently accepted as Low 5-Bish via powerscaling). I think we just don't accept that Toneri destroying the planet with LoJ nor throwing the moon is destroying earth beyond its GBE. But it's not like we think he's only surface wiping, more that hitting the planet with Low 5-B energy would destroy it definitionally, just not beyond its GBE. So, it kinda takes the spirit of A and B together as the answer tmk

 

[Iabihs]

Neither really hits the nail on the head. Toneri has 3 scaling feats, cutting the moon in half (5-Cish), moving the moon (low 5-Bish), and LoJ (currently accepted as Low 5-Bish via powerscaling). I think we just don't accept that Toneri destroying the planet with LoJ nor throwing the moon is destroying earth beyond its GBE. But it's not like we think he's only surface wiping, more that hitting the planet with Low 5-B energy would destroy it definitionally, just not beyond its GBE. So, it kinda takes the spirit of A and B together as the answer tmk

From what i found on an old thread "Total Planetary Annihiliation" and Toneri saying the planet will be destroyed just like the moon are debunked from the second Part of B where it doesnt scale because of the gravity helping out


And Light of Justice is Because of A

So yeah i guess your right both are here

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

From what i found on an old thread "Total Planetary Annihiliation" and Toneri saying the planet will be destroyed just like the moon are debunked from the second Part of B where it doesnt scale because of the gravity helping out


And Light of Justice is Because of A

So yeah i guess your right both are here

No to the bolded part tmk

Like Toneri is the one throwing the moon, and we can calculate how much energy it takes for him to throw it at the speed it moves in the movie, which we do. It's more like the values don't hit 5-B, but they're still so high (5-C to Low 5-B) that it'd still destroy the planet, it's just not shattering it beyond its GBE. So the "annihilate the planet" statement isn't contradicted by not overcoming the GBE.

I think a good analogy would be hitting a deer with a mac truck on the highway vs atomizing it. Both annihilate the deer, one just requires more energy. If that makes sense

 

[Iabihs]

No to the bolded part tmk

Like Toneri is the one throwing the moon, and we can calculate how much energy it takes for him to throw it at the speed it moves in the movie, which we do. It's more like the values don't hit 5-B, but they're still so high (5-C to Low 5-B) that it'd still destroy the planet, it's just not shattering it beyond its GBE. So the "annihilate the planet" statement isn't contradicted by not overcoming the GBE.

I think a good analogy would be hitting a deer with a mac truck on the highway vs atomizing it. Both annihilate the deer, one just requires more energy. If that makes sense

Toneri seems to think the same way The Moon is gonna be destroyed (which is completely) that the planet wont survive a colission either, i think its at the dinner scene with Hinata.

I dont think it would scale regardless since that gravity argument would probably be used....

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Toneri seems to think the same way The Moon is gonna be destroyed (which is completely) that the planet wont survive a colission either, i think its at the dinner scene with Hinata.

I dont think it would scale regardless since that gravity argument would probably be used....

Yeah that doesn't entail shattering the planet beyond its GBE inherently either.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

In what universe is total planetary annihilation not 5B, it's deadass in the statement complete destruction cannot be achieved without bypassing its GBE
https://media.**********.net/attachments/971375965945098270/1331043923572822058/Ghq6dGtWUAALAFt.png?ex=67902ec0&is=678edd40&hm=2b83c899172014b5f8baf9bc043dc0c0d2bb58ca19dfb6bb886eab6b90c95f14&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=746&height=700

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

In what universe is total planetary annihilation not 5B, it's deadass in the statement complete destruction cannot be achieved without bypassing its GBE
https://media.**********.net/attachments/971375965945098270/1331043923572822058/Ghq6dGtWUAALAFt.png?ex=67902ec0&is=678edd40&hm=2b83c899172014b5f8baf9bc043dc0c0d2bb58ca19dfb6bb886eab6b90c95f14&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=746&height=700

Vaporizing the planet can completely destroy it without bypassing the GBE. And I'd say that's total planetary annihilation

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Huh? It being destroyed like the moon isnt Planetary? You realise the moon ceases to exist Afterwards right.... assuming you accepted the part about toneri talking to hinata

Naw that's not what I said. I said I don't believe they interpret the Hinata statement as the planet being shattered beyond its GBE. Which you can disagree with idrc, I'm trying to help you understand the thread.

 

[Iabihs]

Naw that's not what I said. I said I don't believe they interpret the Hinata statement as the planet being shattered beyond its GBE. Which you can disagree with idrc, I'm trying to help you understand the thread.

Ah ok that makes sense i get it now

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ah ok that makes sense i get it now

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

Vaporizing the planet can completely destroy it without bypassing the GBE. And I'd say that's total planetary annihilation

"planetary feats are not planet level" is this logic deadass ever applied to any other verse where theyre forced to prove GBE is bypassed
wouldnt this mean roshi isnt 5C with his max power kamehameha


why do these absurd standards only get applied to naruto tf

 

[Iabihs]

"planetary feats are not planet level" is this logic deadass ever applied to any other verse where theyre forced to prove GBE is bypassed
wouldnt this mean roshi isnt 5C with his max power kamehameha


why do these absurd standards only get applied to naruto tf

Nah cuz roshis kamehmahea actually vaped the moon.


This is more like if Vegetas Galick gun cant actually be 5-B (regardless of if vegeta is 5-B in the manga for other reasons)


Gn btw i got school in the morning

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

"planetary feats are not planet level" is this logic deadass ever applied to any other verse where theyre forced to prove GBE is bypassed
wouldnt this mean roshi isnt 5C with his max power kamehameha


why do these absurd standards only get applied to naruto tf

I mean yeah, not all planetary feats are planet level, just like not all mountain feats are mountain level. Our tiering system names are semi-arbitrary in title, and sometimes destroying a mountain, island, country, etc doesn't correlate to that specific tier. Destroying a mountain can range from like city level if you frag it, to like island level if you vaporize it like the Bijuu.

And this is a thing across wiki in general. HST verses get far more scrutiny since they're far more popular to scale. Which sucks. There are some staff that think Soul Society can only be a big town right, it's not just Naruto. Ik it's weird, but I think you run into a mindset issue when you look at it from the perspective of destroying something with a name on the AP naming list must grant you that tier, when those names are simply there out of necessity to label the tiers.

KN6 Naruto's TBB can destroy a large part of Konoha, and that feat is 6-B. If we just went by the notion of Konoha being a city, that feat would just be 7-B by that logic right. It's just faulty in nature.

Edit: also with Roshi's feat we see it hits the moon and makes it explode omnidirectionally, so there's evidence that the blast not only turned the moon to dust but also scattered it all, thus overcoming its GBE. But even if it shouldn't be 5-C, two wrongs don't make a right. One verse being poorly scaled isn't an excuse to poorly scale another. Whataboutisms don't accomplish anything

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

I mean yeah, not all planetary feats are planet level, just like not all mountain feats are mountain level. Our tiering system names are semi-arbitrary in title, and sometimes destroying a mountain, island, country, etc doesn't correlate to that specific tier. Destroying a mountain can range from like city level if you frag it, to like island level if you vaporize it like the Bijuu.

And this is a thing across wiki in general. HST verses get far more scrutiny since they're far more popular to scale. Which sucks. There are some staff that think Soul Society can only be a big town right, it's not just Naruto. Ik it's weird, but I think you run into a mindset issue when you look at it from the perspective of destroying something with a name on the AP naming list must grant you that tier, when those names are simply there out of necessity to label the tiers.

hell no, the destruction of a celestial body has always been treated as overcoming its GBE
and quit the nonsense excuses with the tbb example, we know earth has an established 5B and that its not a surface level wiping

Edit: also with Roshi's feat we see it hits the moon and makes it explode omnidirectionally, so there's evidence that the blast not only turned the moon to dust but also scattered it all, thus overcoming its GBE. But even if it shouldn't be 5-C, two wrongs don't make a right. One verse being poorly scaled isn't an excuse to poorly scale another. Whataboutisms don't accomplish anything

whataboutisms serve to expose bias and double standards and you never see omnidirectional explosion in the manga that's a toei thing

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

also the destroyed bits (its not vapourization you dont get that from shooting the moon like a cannon ball)
so those parts wouldnt re-coalesce due to gravity so it has to objectively overcome the GBE no matter how you see it

 

[Samlex1234]

@Arc7Kuroi How about the light of Justice? Why is the energy required for that feat Toneri + Naruto Chakra when he stated way before they even fought in tenseigan mode that he was going to use the Byakugan eyes as an energy source to destroy the Planet.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

hell no, the destruction of a celestial body has always been treated as overcoming its GBE

This is false. But if you're going to adopt this viewpoint as fact, then we just won't see eye to eye. And I'm fine agreeing to disagree at that point.

@Arc7Kuroi How about the light of Justice? Why is the energy required for that feat Toneri + Naruto Chakra when he stated way before they even fought in tenseigan mode that he was going to use the Byakugan eyes as an energy source to destroy the Planet.

Are you asking why LoJ isn't rated at 5-B on wiki? Or are you asking if and why I don't think it's 5-B?

 

[Samlex1234]

Are you asking why LoJ isn't rated at 5-B on wiki? Or are you asking if and why I don't think it's 5-B?

Both.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Both.

Well me personally I’m just fine with 5-B LoJ.

As for vsbw, tmk, they just don’t accept the planet destroying statements in The Last to only be able to be interpreted as shattering beyond GBE aka 5-B. They are fine with and accept the interpretation that the planet can be destroyed and whatnot without having it be shattered beyond GBE. Hence, the fragmenting a mountain might not be mountain level analogy.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

This is false. But if you're going to adopt this viewpoint as fact, then we just won't see eye to eye. And I'm fine agreeing to disagree at that point.

you havent answered my later argument of below vap destruction feats would require overcoming the GBE to keep those fragments apart from each other

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

you havent answered my later argument of below vap destruction feats would require overcoming the GBE to keep those fragments apart from each other

It’s my old man bedtime, I got work in 8 hours. But yes if the fragments stay apart then you’ve overcome the GBE I agree. Not all vaporization feats need to do that tho.

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

It’s my old man bedtime, I got work in 8 hours. But yes if the fragments stay apart then you’ve overcome the GBE I agree. Not all vaporization feats need to do that tho.

concession accepted, sleep tight

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I still find it incredible that Kishi still attempted to give us a good “scale” when he showcased Madara’s CT FRAGMENTS dwarfing Mountain Ranges when they were destroyed.

Shit must’ve looked apocalyptic from afar!

 

[AnimesFreak2]

I still find it incredible that Kishi still attempted to give us a good “scale” when he showcased Madara’s CT FRAGMENTS dwarfing Mountain Ranges when they were destroyed.

Shit must’ve looked apocalyptic from afar!

Random civilians in another country going for a late night stroll seeing the sky falling

"Hey yo what the fu- "

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Random civilians in another country going for a late night stroll seeing the sky falling

"Hey yo what the fu- "

Imagine being close enough to be scared shitless, yet far away enough to still have been safe.

1. Hearing the fain’t sounds of battle and feeling tremors.
2. Seeing two big boulders fall from the sky in the horizon followed by earthquakes.
3. Seeing 5 massive nuke level flashes of light in the Horizon followed by the sounds of bone chilling explosions.
4. Seeing a massive explosion in the air followed by a louder sound shortly after.
5. A few minutes later seeing a large black mass crush mountains along the horizon followed by another massive explosion and thunderous sound (By this point the wind pressure in your area must be scary strong.
6. Watching a mountain range get leveled in an instant.
7. Massive Flashes of light plus the sound of thousands of flying bug wings in the distance.
8. More tremors.
9. Several Explosions across the horizon that, as far as you know, are bigger than the others and reach into space.
10. Smaller explosion like before.
11. More tremors.
12. A few minutes later, a mostly clear night turns into the biggest hurricane, thunderstorm, tornado blitz you’ve ever seen as the world all while the biggest earthquake you’ve ever felt happens accompanied with a a world ending sound (TPC)
13. Then you have even BIGGER explosions, thunderous sounds and shockwaves.
14. A big ass red construct appears in the distance.
15. More explosions get funneled into the sky from it.
16. The construct suddenly pops like a balloon.
17. A bigger red construct appears, followed by a LARGER explosion being funneled into the air.
18. Suddenly a massive ass Tree appears in the distance, reaching into space as far as you can tell.
19. A few minutes later a glowing light appears at the top of the tree before flying towards the horizon and becoming a LARGE explosion.
20. Few minutes later another LARGE explosion happens at the base of the tree.
21. Suddenly after that a huge fire wave cuts the tree in half but as the tree falls it suddenly vanishes in an instant.
22. Things get “quiet for a bit” but then suddenly it seems like the world around you is being pulled apart until these MASSIVE country meteors are floating in the air and then start getting bugger as they fall to the earth.
23. Several meteros get diced up like cheese while the others are hit with SEVERAL Massive Explosions.
24. Fragments of those meteors land and DWARF Mountain ranges in the distance, causing massive earthquakes.
25. The last thing you see is the FREAKING MOON changing color and looking like an eyeball.

The PTSD from the closest Civilians to survive would be insane.

 

[Nierre]

Imagine being close enough to be scared shitless, yet far away enough to still have been safe.

1. Hearing the fain’t sounds of battle and feeling tremors.
2. Seeing two big boulders fall from the sky in the horizon followed by earthquakes.
3. Seeing 5 massive nuke level flashes of light in the Horizon followed by the sounds of bone chilling explosions.
4. Seeing a massive explosion in the air followed by a louder sound shortly after.
5. A few minutes later seeing a large black mass crush mountains along the horizon followed by another massive explosion and thunderous sound (By this point the wind pressure in your area must be scary strong.
6. Watching a mountain range get leveled in an instant.
7. Massive Flashes of light plus the sound of thousands of flying bug wings in the distance.
8. More tremors.
9. Several Explosions across the horizon that, as far as you know, are bigger than the others and reach into space.
10. Smaller explosion like before.
11. More tremors.
12. A few minutes later, a mostly clear night turns into the biggest hurricane, thunderstorm, tornado blitz you’ve ever seen as the world all while the biggest earthquake you’ve ever felt happens accompanied with a a world ending sound (TPC)
13. Then you have even BIGGER explosions, thunderous sounds and shockwaves.
14. A big ass red construct appears in the distance.
15. More explosions get funneled into the sky from it.
16. The construct suddenly pops like a balloon.
17. A bigger red construct appears, followed by a LARGER explosion being funneled into the air.
18. Suddenly a massive ass Tree appears in the distance, reaching into space as far as you can tell.
19. A few minutes later a glowing light appears at the top of the tree before flying towards the horizon and becoming a LARGE explosion.
20. Few minutes later another LARGE explosion happens at the base of the tree.
21. Suddenly after that a huge fire wave cuts the tree in half but as the tree falls it suddenly vanishes in an instant.
22. Things get “quiet for a bit” but then suddenly it seems like the world around you is being pulled apart until these MASSIVE country meteors are floating in the air and then start getting bugger as they fall to the earth.
23. Several meteros get diced up like cheese while the others are hit with SEVERAL Massive Explosions.
24. Fragments of those meteors land and DWARF Mountain ranges in the distance, causing massive earthquakes.
25. The last thing you see is the FREAKING MOON changing color and looking like an eyeball.

The PTSD from the closest Civilians to survive would be insane.

I remember a One Piece episode where we saw a Marine's perspective during the Marineford War, it would've been great to see a random Shinobi within the War somehow surviving it all until IT, and just seeing everything going down from his perspective.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

Not the Parasite ability. Obito has no hearing on that ability.

Obito has six paths chakra. Do you have any feats that stabbing juubidara from back is all done buy BZ himself?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

whataboutisms serve to expose bias and double standards

this doesnt really work when there are dozens of different people working on different verses with different levels of input.

any whataboutism can be countered by just saying you should make a CRT to fix the verse you think is not following guidelines.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

I think he's High Kage level for scaling to Mei and somewhat to a KCM clone

Appreciate it. But don't you think kcm naruto created so many clones and each of clones shared a few chakra? But most of them got destroyed and 2-3 of them remained, and one of the remaining clones was the one who fought BZ, so do you think that clone got enough chakra after that? And because of this, BZ can be scaled by it?

 

[Gokukid2005]

Yeah, this could have been done during NNG. Naruto allows him to make a Boruto Clone for the Possibility of Karmic Resurrection after Boruto is initially revived. This way, Kawaki doesn’t have to worry about attacking Boruto again or taking extreme measures and Boruto doesn’t have to worry about taking someone’s life, like he did about Code.

You gotta take into account how fast these events happen as well
After he gave Boruto his meds, almost immediately, Kawaki meets up with Code which gets Boruto possessed and killed.
He gets back home and tells them he can handle the power and before anyone can doubt it, Code pulls up again, Eida shows up too and Amado gets kidnapped.
He gets back w Eida and Daemon and they’re already put on semi permanent house arrest. And quickly after that Kawaki traps Naruto and Hinata, Omnipotence happens and Boruto leaves the village.
Even if you want to say Amado thought Kawaki was Boruto during the timeskip, anytime he’d want to even begin preparing for that clone he’d notice his handywork on his body and realise his daughter’s dna was in Kawaki’s karma and wouldn’t give af about Boruto being out of the village.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

concession accepted, sleep tight

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Your analogy doesn’t quite work here. Usain Bolt’s ‘fastest’ is tied to a formally measured and fixed record, while Ay4’s ‘fastest punch’ is a contextual statement, referencing the moment of his fight with Minato. There’s nothing in the narrative to suggest his speed remained constant or that he was referencing his current absolute top speed. Instead, Ay4 is acknowledging Minato’s achievement in their past encounters, and it doesn’t invalidate the possibility that his speed improved after that event.

That's effectively the same thing, it being measured doesn't change the context. Either way, they're calling a speed they had some time in the past their fastest.

The fact that Minato's feat of dodging Ay is compared to Naruto dodging Ay IS a narrative reason for his speed to remain similar.

Even in Usain Bolt’s case, his top speed at different points in his life was not constant. For example, Bolt broke the world record in May 2008 and then broke it again in August 2008. That May 2008 record has now been broken six times, three of which were by Bolt himself. Bolt’s fastest speed continued to improve, and he set another record in August 2009, a full year later. This demonstrates that even for an athlete like Bolt, his ‘fastest’ changes over time, depending on his training and performance. Applying this logic to Ay4, it’s reasonable to assume that his speed could have improved after his early encounters with Minato, making his statement about Minato’s feat contextual rather than an absolute measure of his top speed.

Not really addressing what I said? If Usain Bolt says someone outsped him at his fastest it should be referring to his very peak.

No that is not an absolute factual statement, war is not the only reason people engage in combat (Also sparring is a real thing). However, regardless of whether or not they fought as kages, you can't disprove the fact that they fought several times than the initial first encounter. Which proves my point that A4 had several encounters with Minato to test out their speed.

I don't see how this is relevant, and I also don't know where you're getting the idea that testing out their speeds is the reason they fought.

Then you agree that he at least got faster even if it is just reaction speed(Mind you he can even augment his reflexes with LCM stated in the same scan). The Ay that fought Minato in the very first encounter does not have reaction speed on par with Minato.

Arguable, because it's a statement from someone that was like 7 or 8 when the war ended, making it very doubtful that he even met Minato, and there's no concrete proof that Ay's reaction speed was slower than Minato's at the time. He did have an honestly underrated reaction feat of noticing that Minato had teleported before he teleported again to the kunai at his back, which is highly impressive considering Minato's ability to rapidly use FTG consecutively. Him not dodging/countering Minato's attack doesn't mean too much since it was a surprise attack and he was overextended, making it difficult to turn around (not to mention that both his feet seemed to be off the ground). You can also argue Minato's foot forced his body into an even more awkward position but it doesn't seem like his foot had connected with Ay.

3rd Raikage’s, Jonins and Ay boxed with Gyuki and he was suppressed before he could harmed.

? Ay literally chopped off Gyuki's horn.

Didn’t minato run away from Biju bombs until later in the war when he created the rasengan.

That was way before in the 2nd War, which you can tell from the uniforms

But somehow you want Jonin Ay from at least 10 years ago to somehow scale to Ay as Raikage ?

I'm not saying he's necessarily on par with his current self, just that he was Gyuki level+ back then.

The flowing hair in that image is similar to the image below when he used V1 against Naruto but I digress.

Not to the same extent but you seem to not be pushing for this point so we can drop this

Ay being almost 30 does not change the fact that he could still get stronger and Faster…..

I agree, I just find it weird to call WA Ay "Adult" Ay as opposed to 3rd War Ay when he's an adult in both cases

No you can’t do that. That is fraud, you can’t separate a statement that scales V1 LCM~ Regular speed KCM and then use that to upscale Yellow flash > V2 LCM,

I said ~ not > but that's not the main point ig

when it is literally a statement in the same breath. It says and I quote, “A god like speed that also catches up with Naruto in Tailed Beast chakra mode, and even praised to be as fast as the "Yelow Flash",”
He never caught up to Naruto when he used his top speed, which he did only once. So no you can’t have your Cake and eat it too.

There are different translations of it, but the one that says overtake is not really a limiter since that implies superiority. I'd also like to note that the statement is just weird in general since it says Ay is on par with Naruto when Naruto admits he was holding back right afterwards.

Although anyways, the parts comparing Ay to Naruto and to Minato are different clauses, it's not like it's saying "The speed that catches up with Naruto in Tailed Beast Chakra Mode is not inferior even to the 'Yellow Flash!'" If it was worded like that then it'd be pretty clear cut. The sentence's previous context does help the V1 interpretation, but it's not definitive either way on its own because being capable of catching up with Naruto and having a higher speed in general are not mutually exclusive, which is why I primarily use external scalings to demonstrate that the V1 Ay~Jonin Minato interpretation isn't consistent.

No no no no no no no. Jonin minato scales to KCM regular speed along with V1 Ay not KCM top speed.

Literally compared to KCM Naruto using Shunshin, his max speed. Also do you think he was constantly using his top speed during the whole fights with Itachi and the Edo Jinchuriki?

Suppressed V2 how suppressed was he? Why should Bee in any way or form scale to a Raikage that was hold back. Because someone like Jigen is in K2 stage does not mean he is using 100 percent of his power. Naruto can be in SPCT mode and still not use 100 percent of its actual power and speed every time, he can use 5, 10, 15 up to unto 100 in that same mode. Bee even said later on brother is at top power, meaning the earlier times he was just joking around with bee while he was in the V2 mode.

None of this changes the fact that any level of V2 is just a higher output than any level of V1, that's why his cloak ramps up and his hair spikes.

How can base Bee be stronger and faster than the Bee that did double lariat with the Raikage’s when he was in 8 tails chakra mode that was also enhanced by samehada? I digress

He got stronger?? I don't know why that didn't come to mind when your whole argument is based on the premise of Ay getting stronger

what is bad with Sage mode Jugo and 3T chidori Sasuke having reactions speed on that level?

KCM Naruto>>PA SM Naruto>Sannin>Danzo~DF Sasuke>FKS Sasuke>>3T FKS Sasuke>Jugo. That is far too large a difference for them to reasonably keep up at all, especially when the first gap is arguably 14x from him having 1/14th of his maximum chakra when he stated he was superior to his PA self.

And Sasuke doesn't just have reactions on that level, he TAGS V1 Ay, which is the key part.

The problem is we treat characters as going 100 percent every time when they can go 1-100…. Why should Bee use 100 percent speed when he know that he can beat them at 50 or less. In fact we know he was indeed Holding back has he could have entered V2 state use his top speed and literally blitz all of them. Suigetsu could react to him in V1 earlier on in the fight, while in the same chapter when Jugo got a power up that amps his speed, suigetsu talks about how fast V1 Raikage’s was moving, the same suigetsu that could blitz him before his attack landed on sasuke prior.

It's suggested that Ay got serious at the end of Chapter 461 (which can be pretty easily derived from his blazing expression).

This is my suggestion on solving the scaling issue. Top speed KCM Naruto is faster than Jonin minato


KCM naruto top speed > Adult V2 Raikage top speed> Adult V1 Raikage ~ KCM Naruto regular speed ~ Yellow Flash > Jonin Raikage top speed

I meant the lower paragraphs

Appreciate it. But don't you think kcm naruto created so many clones and each of clones shared a few chakra? But most of them got destroyed and 2-3 of them remained, and one of the remaining clones was the one who fought BZ, so do you think that clone got enough chakra after that? And because of this, BZ can be scaled by it?

Well his clones were fighting High Kage level characters like Muu, the 3rd Raikage, and Prime Kimimaro + Chiyo back when there were 13 so anyways the clone would be High Kage level