Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[HelloThere1089]

balls down to

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

balls down

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

 

[MinatoSparkle]

@MinatoSparkle

I mean, instead of going back and forth, let me just ask you these questions:

1. Are 100% V2’s weaker than more than half of power of their Biju?

No reason to assume so

1. Do you disagree with Minato’s feats in the OS suggesting he scales to or above 100% V2 Kurama in Chakra Strength?

That’s all this balls down to.

Not really since it's an incomplete Bijuudama. I think Minato's Rasengan>V2 Kurama's physicals is fine, and possibly KCM2 Naruto's physicals, but no reason for it to be above KCM2 Naruto's Rasengan

When was this?

 

[Banjo77]

No hay razón para suponer eso

En realidad no, ya que es un Bijuudama incompleto. Creo que el Rasengan de Minato > el físico de Kurama V2 está bien, y posiblemente el físico de Naruto KCM2, pero no hay razón para que esté por encima del Rasengan de Naruto KCM2.

why minato scale kcm2 naruto

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Not really since it's an incomplete Bijuudama. I think Minato's Rasengan>V2 Kurama's physicals is fine, and possibly KCM2 Naruto's physicals, but no reason for it to be above KCM2 Naruto's Rasengan

Ok, so let me ask this now…

If I say, Minato has stronger Chakra than Naruto w/ 50% Kurama based on the OS feats. False statement or misguided statement?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

why minato scale kcm2 naruto

V2 is portrayed as not that far below the full Bijuu with how the Edo V2 jinchuriki can press BM Bee, and 100% Kurama>KCM2 Naruto

Ok, so let me ask this now…

If I say, Minato has stronger Chakra than Naruto w/ 50% Kurama based on the OS feats. False statement or misguided statement?

Wdym by stronger chakra

 

[Banjo77]

V2 is portrayed as not that far below the full Bijuu with how the Edo V2 jinchuriki can press BM Bee, and 100% Kurama>KCM2 Naruto

Wdym by stronger chakra

Naruto scale on Raikage>what is bee BM>biju V2 minato if I don't see how to base minato scale

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Naruto scale on Raikage

What?

what is bee BM

Bijuu Mode

biju V2 minato if I don't see how to base minato scale

I don't get what you're saying

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Wdym by stronger chakra

I look at the feat as Minato’s Chakra overpowering and suppressing the totality of 100% V2 9 Tails Chakra.

1. Minato’s Seal + Kushina’s Chains helped prevent the “complete” unravelling of the Seal.
2. V2 Kurama was at 9 Tails (Unsuppressed Chakra).
3. Minato’s Projected Chakra has to overpower Kurama's and push it back into the seal to suppress the form (Rasengan + TBB Clash).

So when I say “Stronger Chakra”, i’m referring back to #3 & asserting Minato’s Chakra is > Kurama’s 100% V2 9 Tails Chakra.

False or Misguided?

 

[Banjo77]

What?

Bijuu Mode

I don't get what you're saying

V2 didn't hurt Bee, he got attacked by several of these and attacked him so I don't see how they scale to Bee. And Kurama 50 overpowered them in his biiju form. how exactly base minato scales

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I look at the feat as Minato’s Chakra overpowering and suppressing the totality of 100% V2 9 Tails Chakra.

1. Minato’s Seal + Kushina’s Chains helped prevent the “complete” unravelling of the Seal.
2. V2 Kurama was at 9 Tails (Unsuppressed Chakra).
3. Minato’s Projected Chakra has to overpower Kurama's and push it back into the seal to suppress the form (Rasengan + TBB Clash).

So when I say “Stronger Chakra”, i’m referring back to #3 & asserting Minato’s Chakra is > Kurama’s 100% V2 9 Tails Chakra.

False or Misguided?

I mean my response to this is basically what I said before. V2 Kurama's Complete Bijuudama>Minato's Rasengan~>V2 Kurama's Incomplete Bijuudama>V2 Kurama's raw chakra

V2 didn't hurt Bee, he got attacked by several of these and attacked him so I don't see how they scale to Bee. And Kurama 50 overpowered them in his biiju form. how exactly base minato scales

The V2 Jinchuriki kept up with and hurt him

I'm not saying the Edo Jinchuriki scale to 50% Kurama, just that V2 in general isn't far from BM since the V2 Jinchuriki hurt BM Bee who's relative/superior to their BM versions.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

V2 didn't hurt Bee, he got attacked by several of these and attacked him so I don't see how they scale to Bee.

(1) Six Tails tanks being crushed in hand by Bee. (2) Six Tails melts Bee’s Skinn off with its acid while escaping his grasp. (3) 4 Tails burns Bee with it’s Floral Mountain Lava Style (We see Bee’s hands burning and Steaming afterwards). (4) Scaling from KCM Naruto, V2’s are able to hurt him (2 Tails) and to a degree overpower him (3 Tails Coral Palm) when KCM is also able to tank being chomped down on by Fully Transformed 4 Tails and match 4 Tails Grip w/ Chakra Arms.

Ref. Chapters 566-569

And Kurama 50 overpowered them in his biiju form. how exactly base minato scales

We are discussing that now, based on the Minato One Shot Story.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Not gonna insert myself in this debate, but there's a direct statement of V2 ~ BM as well.
BM is mainly advantageous due to Bijū bombs (though, weirdly enough, Kurama seems to be an exception to this for some reason).

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Idt it's literally all of a Bijuu's power tho since Obito specifically has a harder time controlling the jinchuriki when they go Full Bijuu. Might be that such a small vessel can't fully channel the power or smthn even if they have all the Bijuu's chakra

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Idt it's literally all of a Bijuu's power tho since Obito specifically has a harder time controlling the jinchuriki when they go Full Bijuu. Might be that such a small vessel can't fully channel the power or smthn even if they have all the Bijuu's chakra

I think he was just caught off guard by it at first. He controls them just fine after he got his bearings.

 

[Banjo77]

Quiero decir que mi respuesta a esto es básicamente lo que dije antes. V2 Bijuudama completo de Kurama> Rasengan de Minato~> V2 Bijuudama incompleto de Kurama> V2 Chakra puro de Kurama

El Jinchuriki V2 lo siguió y lo lastimó .

No digo que los Jinchuriki de Edo escalen al 50% de Kurama, solo que V2 en general no está lejos de BM ya que los Jinchuriki de V2 lastiman a BM Bee, que es relativo/superior a sus versiones BM.

However Raikague is the strongest ninja in the Bee Village, including the one Naruto surpassed, so he wouldn't be Naruto > Raikague > Bee > V2 Biiju

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I think he was just caught off guard by it at first. He controls them just fine after he got his bearings.

He had already used V2 for a while tho and when Kokuo rampaged he returned her to V2 (which as a side note is referred to as bottling up the Bijuu's power) not base

However Raikague is the strongest ninja in the Bee Village, including the one Naruto surpassed, so he wouldn't be Naruto > Raikague > Bee > V2 Biiju

I'm not sure I understand your point

 

[Banjo77]

(1) Six Tails tanks being crushed in hand by Bee. (2) Six Tails melts Bee’s Skinn off with its acid while escaping his grasp. (3) 4 Tails burns Bee with it’s Floral Mountain Lava Style (We see Bee’s hands burning and Steaming afterwards). (4) Scaling from KCM Naruto, V2’s are able to hurt him (2 Tails) and to a degree overpower him (3 Tails Coral Palm) when KCM is also able to tank being chomped down on by Fully Transformed 4 Tails and match 4 Tails Grip w/ Chakra Arms.

Ref. Chapters 566-569

We are discussing that now, based on the Minato One Shot Story.

I don't know if the acid or the lava scale to their physiques for that plus a jutsu that doesn't scale to their physiques and the coral didn't hurt Naruto that much

 

[Banjo77]

Question: What is the scale between Bee in his complete Biiju form, KCM basic Naruto and 50 Kushina? Can someone tell me?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I mean my response to this is basically what I said before. V2 Kurama's Complete Bijuudama>Minato's Rasengan~>V2 Kurama's Incomplete Bijuudama>V2 Kurama's raw chakra

So you believe Minato doesn’t have to overcome the totality of V2 Kurama’s Chakra. Simply Overpowering an Incomplete TBB (Which is possibly only a fraction of its chakra based on the 4th Databook) suffices to suppress the Totality of the Form? What’re you basing that on? Because the series doesn’t support that.

1. Yamato needed the aide of Hashirama’s Chakra Crystal to Overpower and Suppress 4 Tails.
2. SM Hashirama was Greater than Kurama in Totality.
3. 3TM Sasuke was far stronger than Kn0 Naruto.
4. Jiraiya’s sealing tags work via unknown means iirc (My Assumption: Reinforcement Seals that work similarly to the Spiral Seal seal that reinforced Kushina’s seal that she couldn’t step out of or MinTo’s Suppressing Seal he used on Kushina). But even then it only worked up to 3 Tails.

So what in the series suggests to you that overpowering a fraction of the beasts power is sufficient (Note: I say Fraction because the 4th Databook says the Combined power of the 5 Biju Combined TBB uses only a fraction of their power. So TBB are more than likely only fractions of their overall Chakra).

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

He had already used V2 for a while tho and when Kokuo rampaged he returned her to V2 (which as a side note is referred to as bottling up the Bijuu's power) not base

Not really seeing how any of this debunks the notion that V2 is ~ to a Bijū's power.
Keep in mind ~ doesn't necessarily mean dead =. That's why the V2s have an "At most" rating. They're just in the ballpark, the Bijū could still be marginally superior.

 

[Banjo77]

Question: What is the scale between Bee in his complete Biiju form, KCM basic Naruto and Kushina V2 kurama Can someone tell me?

 

[Banjo77]

Not really seeing how any of this debunks the notion that V2 is ~ to a Bijū's power.
Keep in mind ~ doesn't necessarily mean dead =. That's why the V2s have an "At most" rating. They're just in the ballpark, the Bijū could still be marginally superior.

However, the complete biiju is not shown, it is superior to V2

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I just got divine inspiration for a short, and I think you'll love it lmao

 

[MinatoSparkle]

So you believe Minato doesn’t have to overcome the totality of V2 Kurama’s Chakra. Simply Overpowering an Incomplete TBB (Which is possibly only a fraction of its chakra based on the 4th Databook) suffices to suppress the Totality of the Form? What’re you basing that on? Because the series doesn’t support that.

Not just that, but also weakening Kurama by injuring him with the explosion

1. Yamato needed the aide of Hashirama’s Chakra Crystal to Overpower and Suppress 4 Tails.
2. SM Hashirama was Greater than Kurama in Totality.
3. 3TM Sasuke was far stronger than Kn0 Naruto.
4. Jiraiya’s sealing tags work via unknown means iirc (My Assumption: Reinforcement Seals that work similarly to the Spiral Seal seal that reinforced Kushina’s seal that she couldn’t step out of or MinTo’s Suppressing Seal he used on Kushina). But even then it only worked up to 3 Tails.

So what in the series suggests to you that overpowering a fraction of the beasts power is sufficient (Note: I say Fraction because the 4th Databook says the Combined power of the 5 Biju Combined TBB uses only a fraction of their power. So TBB are more than likely only fractions of their overall Chakra).

The raws don't say that.
複数の尾獣がチャクラを一点に集中することで、超巨大な“尾獣玉"を形成することもできる!
By concentrating the chakra of multiple Tailed Beasts into a single point, it's also possible to form an extremely large "Tailed Beast Ball!"

But of course the Bijuudama doesn't have all of their chakra or they'd die after using it. But Minato can defeat Kurama without literally attacking every bit of his chakra. Just overpowering his Bijuudama and incapacitating Kurama with the resulting explosion (think of how Sasuke beat Naruto at VOTE1) is enough.

Not really seeing how any of this debunks the notion that V2 is ~ to a Bijū's power.
Keep in mind ~ doesn't necessarily mean dead =. That's why the V2s have an "At most" rating. They're just in the ballpark, the Bijū could still be marginally superior.

I'd moreso say V2<~Bijuu as V2~Bijuu implies deadass relativity

Question: What is the scale between Bee in his complete Biiju form, KCM basic Naruto and Kushina V2 kurama Can someone tell me?

Personally I think V2 Kurama>>KCM1 Naruto~>BM Bee

I like how this feels targeted at both of them at the same time

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Question: What is the scale between Bee in his complete Biiju form, KCM basic Naruto and Kushina V2 kurama Can someone tell me?

Killer B “might” be a bit stronger than the other Biju at full power (1-7). This is based on him helping charge a Biju Bomb alongside Kurama attack the Ten-tails, but overall he is still in the same ballpark as the other Tailed Beast, as shown in their fight. KCM Naruto at a Base Level is about even with the full powered V2 Biju given his feats against them (Biju 1-7). V2 Kushina with 9-Tails, based on the showings of V2 Biju is “near” Kurama’s full strength but should be slightly weaker… slightly.

 

[Banjo77]

Killer B “might” be a bit stronger than the other Biju at full power (1-7). This is based on him helping charge a Biju Bomb alongside Kurama attack the Ten-tails, but overall he is still in the same ballpark as the other Tailed Beast, as shown in their fight. KCM Naruto at a Base Level is about even with the full powered V2 Biju given his feats against them (Biju 1-7). V2 Kushina with 9-Tails, based on the showings of V2 Biju is “near” Kurama’s full strength but should be slightly weaker… slightly.

I'm confused because the show contradicts V2 ~ full biiju. kurama almost in physical form partially destroyed shibaku tensei unlike V2 mode Yugito decided to use full biiju form instead of V2 to fight kuzan and kakuzu almost always puts full biiju >>> V2

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm confused because the show contradicts V2 ~ full biiju. kurama almost in physical form partially destroyed shibaku tensei unlike V2 mode Yugito decided to use full biiju form instead of V2 to fight kuzan and kakuzu almost always puts full biiju >>> V2

That's because Alive Yugito is fodder in Base, all the Edo Jinchūriki got amped up by Obito as Paths of Pain.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

I'm confused because the show contradicts V2 ~ full biiju. kurama almost in physical form partially destroyed shibaku tensei unlike V2 mode Yugito decided to use full biiju form instead of V2 to fight kuzan and kakuzu almost always puts full biiju >>> V2

Kurama is much stronger than the other Biju. It’s not comparable. The Akatsuki members, in my opinion, are Biju level fighters and V2 forms are near but not 100% equal to the full forms. Enough to fight and hurt them though.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

That's because Alive Yugito is fodder in Base, all the Edo Jinchūriki got amped up by Obito as Paths of Pain.

This too.

 

[Banjo77]

Kurama is much stronger than the other Biju. It’s not comparable. The Akatsuki members, in my opinion, are Biju level fighters and V2 forms are near but not 100% equal to the full forms. Enough to fight and hurt them though.

Kurama is stronger but his mechanics are no different than other biijus. His partial form broke Shibaku Tensei which Naruto V2 didn't. Yugito. She used her full form not V2 when she was cornered. Bee constantly treats Biiju mode as better V2 by a good margin. I doubt Kushina's V2 comes close to Kurama's full form and more so if Obito upgraded his Edo jinchurikis his V2 would be different than normal ones could be why Bee Naruto was having trouble.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Not just that, but also weakening Kurama by injuring him with the explosion

This makes no sense Kurama’s V2 Forms can take their own blasts. Why would a stronger Kurama be unable to do what 6-Tails could?

The raws don't say that.
複数の尾獣がチャクラを一点に集中することで、超巨大な“尾獣玉"を形成することもできる!
By concentrating the chakra of multiple Tailed Beasts into a single point, it's also possible to form an extremely large "Tailed Beast Ball!"

Welp…

But of course the Bijuudama doesn't have all of their chakra or they'd die after using it. But Minato can defeat Kurama without literally attacking every bit of his chakra. Just overpowering his Bijuudama and incapacitating Kurama with the resulting explosion (think of how Sasuke beat Naruto at VOTE1) is enough.

I don’t agree with this. Sasuke was equal with Naruto and won by punching him the chest, not because his Chakra overpowered a portion of Naruto’s. Nothing supports overpowering an incomplete TBB would lead to this and it’s directly contradicted by the 6 Tails example. Hell even the 4 Tails Example tbh.

Plus it doesn’t even make sense.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This makes no sense Kurama’s V2 Forms can take their own blasts. Why would a stronger Kurama be unable to do what 6-Tails could?

This is Kurama AND Minato's attacks exploding together.

Welp…

I don’t agree with this. Sasuke was equal with Naruto and won by punching him the chest, not because his Chakra overpowered a portion of Naruto’s.

I don't see how that would've been enough considering Naruto could take literally being punctured through the chest. If anything that was just the last straw, the explosion definitely contributed a lot to knocking him out.

Nothing supports overpowering an incomplete TBB would lead to this and it’s directly contradicted by the 6 Tails example. Hell even the 4 Tails Example tbh.

Plus it doesn’t even make sense.

Why doesn't it make sense that the combined explosions of your charged up attack and an attack comparable to that could knock you out?

 

[Testarossa002]

No reason to assume so

Not really since it's an incomplete Bijuudama. I think Minato's Rasengan>V2 Kurama's physicals is fine, and possibly KCM2 Naruto's physicals, but no reason for it to be above KCM2 Naruto's Rasengan

Couldn't believe I was seriously arguing for Kushina>Minato a few days ago
Add that Minato is canonically stated to be attracted to people stronger than him and you've got a nice argument forming

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

This is Kurama AND Minato's attacks exploding together.

Minato would still have to be putting out equal power to achieve that, otherwise he’d have been overpowered and that isn’t proof Kurama would be knocked out or that his power would be suppressed, especially of the Jutsu is nowhere close to majority of it’s chakra. Gyuuki himself has taken his “complete” TBB to the face and survived with Physical injuries but nowhere near enough to be lnocked out. Yet Kurama is being knocked out and fully suppressed by an Incomplete TBB being matched?

That doesn’t make sense and Kurama has been hit with worse than a complete TBB.

I don't see how that would've been enough considering Naruto could take literally being punctured through the chest. If anything that was just the last straw, the explosion definitely contributed a lot to knocking him out.

Nope. Him being specifically knocked out is attributed solely to the punch. Did he sustain Injuries from the explosion? Sure. That isn’t what is attributed with knocking him out.

Why doesn't it make sense that the combined explosions of your charged up attack and an attack comparable to that could knock you out?

You’re attempting to try and take the onus off of Minato having to suppress the chakra. For starters, Kurama has been hit with worse and wasn’t knocked out. Using Gyuuki (A Weaker Tailed Beast) as precedence, he tanked his completed TBB to the face without being knocked out. Why would Kurama be different? While yes, there is precedence to assert a Tailed Beast “Can” be knocked out (3 Tails), with what is given, it’s more than a Completed TBB. Hell, Gyuuki wasn’t even knocked out by a 2x TBB from Momoshiki.

If I were to buy your excuse that Minato + Incomplete TBB somehow knocked out Kurama and lead to his Chakra being Suppressed despite not being a majority of his Chakra, you’d have to prove he could be knocked out by such. The verse has shown us that weaker Biju aren’t even knocked out by Complete/2x Complete TBB. The evidence leans towards my interpretation and that makes the most sense. You have to suppress the entire Chakra and to do that you have to exceed the chakra’s strength or you’ll be overpowered and ineffective. This is literally shown in the same one shot where Kurama overpowers Minato’s Initial Attempt to suppress via a seal as well as Kushina’s Chains.