Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[SlendVeny]

Kushina beats Pain.

 

[Kaydee1648]

Mom beats kid

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Ok I'm not having a full on Essay War P2 but I'm gonna respond to the key points.

The one shot clearly debunks this sentiment unless you think and want to argue that 100% V2’s are less than half the strength of their Biju, which is a notion that is proven wrong in the fight with Bee and Naruto.

So unless you’re willing to say 100% V2 9 Tails is weaker than 50% 9 Tails, then Minato’s feats disprove (Or at Worst Retcons) that previous interpretation.

Even if 100% V2 Kurama is stronger than 50% Kurama, that doesn't mean he's stronger than the Perfect Jinchuriki of 50% Kurama. Perfect Jinchuriki>Bijuu.

Also, Minato says that Mastering that Chakra gives only a “chance” at beating Obito. It’s not a foregone conclusion. It’s bare-minimum.

Sure Minato wouldn't know exactly how strong KCM2 Naruto would be, just that he's stronger than 50% Kurama. But it's pretty obvious narrative intent proven by KCM2 Naruto showing relativity to Rinnegan Obito who's superior to YM Obito.

False. This only states Naruto “can”. It doesn’t mean Naruto “has”, and again, the one shot disabuses you of these notions.

You're missing the point of my argument. I'm not saying that the fact that Naruto can surpass Minato means he did in KCM2, but the fact that his figure grew to be indistinguishable from Minato's means he did, which is what the statement I sent is referring to. And while other things like the greater narrative are debatable, it's just blatant that Kakashi deadass thought he was seeing Minato due to Naruto's feat. That's just straight up equality if anything.

And by how much stronger is this Obito vs YM Obito physically? Minato made him lose an arm and blood shoot from out his back around his spine/ribs. It could be that Obito being stronger is why he isn’t as badly hurt. I also remember a few people arguing he tanked this Naruto’s Rasengan to the face w/o Damage, which would negate your argument.

The actual spot that Minato hit wasn't damaged so badly considering it's a Rasengan as opposed to a simple headbutt. Both caused bleeding, Minato's Rasengan just caused somewhat more.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Kushina beats Pain.

Beats MKCM Naruto too lowkey

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I have to say, I didn't wake up today expecting to argue against Minato

 

[HelloThere1089]

I have to say, I didn't wake up today expecting to argue against Minato

It's called treason buddy. And the cult is gonna come after you.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It's called treason buddy. And the cult is gonna come after you.

Joke's on you, I'm the leader of the Minato cult (I quite literally have "the president of the Minato cult" in my Discord about me )

 

[HelloThere1089]

Joke's on you, I'm the leader of the Minato cult (I quite literally have "the president of the Minato cult" in my Discord about me )

Bold of you to assume your subordinates won't turn on you.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bold of you to assume your subordinates won't turn on you.

Bold of you to assume I don't have mind control devices in all of them

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Kushina beats Pain.

Kushina is crazy strong and massively underrated. Kurama level speed, barriers, and chains while literally frickin' dying is utterly ridiculous.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Kushina is crazy strong and massively underrated. Kurama level speed, barriers, and chains while literally frickin' dying is utterly ridiculous.

Idk about speed since Kurama wasn't looking at her when she wrapped him up, but yeah she's broken

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Idk about speed since Kurama wasn't looking at her when she wrapped him up, but yeah she's broken

I'm talking physical speed, she intercepted his claw.

Also pretty insane when you factor in that she knows all sorts of sealing Jutsu, might possibly know the Rasengan (how cool would that be?), may have a decent healing factor (if we assume she's just like Karin), and may or may not have some level of control over Kurama's chakra (would be weird if she has less grasp on it than Part I Naruto imo). Pretty underrated bag if she has all of this shit. Though obviously all of it is 100% speculative sadly.

 

[HelloThere1089]

In light of Prescience, how do y'all think Boruto came accross FTG? I have stated my theory before, but what do y'all think? Boruto even mentioned Minato in chapter 4. And the database confirms Koji's involvement. The Database also says it's a slightly different version of FTG.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm talking physical speed, she intercepted his claw.

Oh sure but that's only 50% Kurama (still fast af just not 100% Kurama level)

Also pretty insane when you factor in that she knows all sorts of sealing Jutsu, might possibly know the Rasengan (how cool would that be?), may have a decent healing factor (if we assume she's just like Karin), and may or may not have some level of control over Kurama's chakra (would be weird if she has less grasp on it than Part I Naruto imo). Pretty underrated bag if she has all of this shit. Though obviously all of it is 100% speculative sadly.

I think what we do know of her is enough to place her very high in the verse. We pretty much get a direct statement of her being above Initial KCM Naruto from the man himself, and she should have most if not all of Minato's sealing jutsu.

 

[Gokukid2005]

I heard something about the novels having a canon love interest for him. Is that legit?

Kakashi Hiden novel iirc
Him and a prisoner but nothing happens cause she's a criminal and he's hokage

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Oh sure but that's only 50% Kurama (still fast af just not 100% Kurama level)

Did I say 100% Kurama? Mb if I did cause that's not what I meant, though I don't think it matters much either way tbh. Insane feat regardless given her state at the time and allat.

I think what we do know of her is enough to place her very high in the verse. We pretty much get a direct statement of her being above Initial KCM Naruto from the man himself, and she should have most if not all of Minato's sealing jutsu.

Quite right.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Even if 100% V2 Kurama is stronger than 50% Kurama, that doesn't mean he's stronger than the Perfect Jinchuriki of 50% Kurama. Perfect Jinchuriki>Bijuu.

Sure, but in this case that means the question becomes: Naruto w/ Weaker Chakra and Unquantifiably better CC vs Minato w/ Stronger Chakra and Unquantifiably lesser CC.

Sure Minato wouldn't know exactly how strong KCM2 Naruto would be, just that he's stronger than 50% Kurama. But it's pretty obvious narrative intent proven by KCM2 Naruto showing relativity to Rinnegan Obito who's superior to YM Obito.

Ok… you do realize that even if don’t argue the point and I grant you this, that doesn’t change Kishimoto’s writing of Minato in the One Shot and the new narrative implications that directly conflict with the previous narrative intent about Naruto/Minato dynamic. Right or wrong? It would be a retcon at worst. You cannot ignore the One Shot.

You're missing the point of my argument. I'm not saying that the fact that Naruto can surpass Minato means he did in KCM2, but the fact that his figure grew to be indistinguishable from Minato's means he did

You are inflating the significance of that scene far too much. Yes, it emphasized Naruto’s speed but dude was mistaken due to Kakashi’s visage being obscured by Dust and Debris. The anime portrayal is not the same as the manga’s. It doesn’t carry the connotation you are trying to give it.

And while other things like the greater narrative are debatable, it's just blatant that Kakashi deadass thought he was seeing Minato due to Naruto's feat. That's just straight up equality if anything.

Refer above + It’s really not though. You are, as they say, “Putting dubs on it” or, “Gassing it”…

The actual spot that Minato hit wasn't damaged so badly considering it's a Rasengan as opposed to a simple headbutt. Both caused bleeding, Minato's Rasengan just caused somewhat more.

Bro… you clearly see blood shooting through the skin from around the rib cage/spine, as well as bruising. Are we really saying that EVERYTHING that happens to Obito is > Minato? Is Kakashi now > Minato’s Rasengan? Kakashi’s Punch to the face > BM Naruto’s Headbutt > Minato’s Rasengan?

Come on…

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

In light of Prescience, how do y'all think Boruto came accross FTG? I have stated my theory before, but what do y'all think? Boruto even mentioned Minato in chapter 4. And the database confirms Koji's involvement. The Database also says it's a slightly different version of FTG.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Boruto asked about Teleportation (STN) thinking of his Grandpa and Sasuke in a future teaches it to him. Hell, if Delta has all of her memories from Amadou’s cloning, I wouldn’t be surprised if Koji has all of Jiraiya’s.

 

[HelloThere1089]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Koji has all of Jiraiya’s.

Yeah this was part of my theory.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

@MinatoSparkle

I mean, instead of going back and forth, let me just ask you these questions:

1. Are 100% V2’s weaker than more than half of power of their Biju?
2. Do you disagree with Minato’s feats in the OS suggesting he scales to or above 100% V2 Kurama in Chakra Strength?

That’s all this balls down to.

 

[ssgengar]

We pretty much get a direct statement of her being above Initial KCM Naruto from the man himself

When was this?

 

[HelloThere1089]

balls down to

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

balls down

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

 

[MinatoSparkle]

@MinatoSparkle

I mean, instead of going back and forth, let me just ask you these questions:

1. Are 100% V2’s weaker than more than half of power of their Biju?

No reason to assume so

1. Do you disagree with Minato’s feats in the OS suggesting he scales to or above 100% V2 Kurama in Chakra Strength?

That’s all this balls down to.

Not really since it's an incomplete Bijuudama. I think Minato's Rasengan>V2 Kurama's physicals is fine, and possibly KCM2 Naruto's physicals, but no reason for it to be above KCM2 Naruto's Rasengan

When was this?

 

[Banjo77]

No hay razón para suponer eso

En realidad no, ya que es un Bijuudama incompleto. Creo que el Rasengan de Minato > el físico de Kurama V2 está bien, y posiblemente el físico de Naruto KCM2, pero no hay razón para que esté por encima del Rasengan de Naruto KCM2.

why minato scale kcm2 naruto

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Not really since it's an incomplete Bijuudama. I think Minato's Rasengan>V2 Kurama's physicals is fine, and possibly KCM2 Naruto's physicals, but no reason for it to be above KCM2 Naruto's Rasengan

Ok, so let me ask this now…

If I say, Minato has stronger Chakra than Naruto w/ 50% Kurama based on the OS feats. False statement or misguided statement?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

why minato scale kcm2 naruto

V2 is portrayed as not that far below the full Bijuu with how the Edo V2 jinchuriki can press BM Bee, and 100% Kurama>KCM2 Naruto

Ok, so let me ask this now…

If I say, Minato has stronger Chakra than Naruto w/ 50% Kurama based on the OS feats. False statement or misguided statement?

Wdym by stronger chakra

 

[Banjo77]

V2 is portrayed as not that far below the full Bijuu with how the Edo V2 jinchuriki can press BM Bee, and 100% Kurama>KCM2 Naruto

Wdym by stronger chakra

Naruto scale on Raikage>what is bee BM>biju V2 minato if I don't see how to base minato scale

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Naruto scale on Raikage

What?

what is bee BM

Bijuu Mode

biju V2 minato if I don't see how to base minato scale

I don't get what you're saying

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Wdym by stronger chakra

I look at the feat as Minato’s Chakra overpowering and suppressing the totality of 100% V2 9 Tails Chakra.

1. Minato’s Seal + Kushina’s Chains helped prevent the “complete” unravelling of the Seal.
2. V2 Kurama was at 9 Tails (Unsuppressed Chakra).
3. Minato’s Projected Chakra has to overpower Kurama's and push it back into the seal to suppress the form (Rasengan + TBB Clash).

So when I say “Stronger Chakra”, i’m referring back to #3 & asserting Minato’s Chakra is > Kurama’s 100% V2 9 Tails Chakra.

False or Misguided?

 

[Banjo77]

What?

Bijuu Mode

I don't get what you're saying

V2 didn't hurt Bee, he got attacked by several of these and attacked him so I don't see how they scale to Bee. And Kurama 50 overpowered them in his biiju form. how exactly base minato scales

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I look at the feat as Minato’s Chakra overpowering and suppressing the totality of 100% V2 9 Tails Chakra.

1. Minato’s Seal + Kushina’s Chains helped prevent the “complete” unravelling of the Seal.
2. V2 Kurama was at 9 Tails (Unsuppressed Chakra).
3. Minato’s Projected Chakra has to overpower Kurama's and push it back into the seal to suppress the form (Rasengan + TBB Clash).

So when I say “Stronger Chakra”, i’m referring back to #3 & asserting Minato’s Chakra is > Kurama’s 100% V2 9 Tails Chakra.

False or Misguided?

I mean my response to this is basically what I said before. V2 Kurama's Complete Bijuudama>Minato's Rasengan~>V2 Kurama's Incomplete Bijuudama>V2 Kurama's raw chakra

V2 didn't hurt Bee, he got attacked by several of these and attacked him so I don't see how they scale to Bee. And Kurama 50 overpowered them in his biiju form. how exactly base minato scales

The V2 Jinchuriki kept up with and hurt him

I'm not saying the Edo Jinchuriki scale to 50% Kurama, just that V2 in general isn't far from BM since the V2 Jinchuriki hurt BM Bee who's relative/superior to their BM versions.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

V2 didn't hurt Bee, he got attacked by several of these and attacked him so I don't see how they scale to Bee.

(1) Six Tails tanks being crushed in hand by Bee. (2) Six Tails melts Bee’s Skinn off with its acid while escaping his grasp. (3) 4 Tails burns Bee with it’s Floral Mountain Lava Style (We see Bee’s hands burning and Steaming afterwards). (4) Scaling from KCM Naruto, V2’s are able to hurt him (2 Tails) and to a degree overpower him (3 Tails Coral Palm) when KCM is also able to tank being chomped down on by Fully Transformed 4 Tails and match 4 Tails Grip w/ Chakra Arms.

Ref. Chapters 566-569

And Kurama 50 overpowered them in his biiju form. how exactly base minato scales

We are discussing that now, based on the Minato One Shot Story.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Not gonna insert myself in this debate, but there's a direct statement of V2 ~ BM as well.
BM is mainly advantageous due to Bijū bombs (though, weirdly enough, Kurama seems to be an exception to this for some reason).

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Idt it's literally all of a Bijuu's power tho since Obito specifically has a harder time controlling the jinchuriki when they go Full Bijuu. Might be that such a small vessel can't fully channel the power or smthn even if they have all the Bijuu's chakra

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Idt it's literally all of a Bijuu's power tho since Obito specifically has a harder time controlling the jinchuriki when they go Full Bijuu. Might be that such a small vessel can't fully channel the power or smthn even if they have all the Bijuu's chakra

I think he was just caught off guard by it at first. He controls them just fine after he got his bearings.

 

[Banjo77]

Quiero decir que mi respuesta a esto es básicamente lo que dije antes. V2 Bijuudama completo de Kurama> Rasengan de Minato~> V2 Bijuudama incompleto de Kurama> V2 Chakra puro de Kurama

El Jinchuriki V2 lo siguió y lo lastimó .

No digo que los Jinchuriki de Edo escalen al 50% de Kurama, solo que V2 en general no está lejos de BM ya que los Jinchuriki de V2 lastiman a BM Bee, que es relativo/superior a sus versiones BM.

However Raikague is the strongest ninja in the Bee Village, including the one Naruto surpassed, so he wouldn't be Naruto > Raikague > Bee > V2 Biiju

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I think he was just caught off guard by it at first. He controls them just fine after he got his bearings.

He had already used V2 for a while tho and when Kokuo rampaged he returned her to V2 (which as a side note is referred to as bottling up the Bijuu's power) not base

However Raikague is the strongest ninja in the Bee Village, including the one Naruto surpassed, so he wouldn't be Naruto > Raikague > Bee > V2 Biiju

I'm not sure I understand your point

 

[Banjo77]

(1) Six Tails tanks being crushed in hand by Bee. (2) Six Tails melts Bee’s Skinn off with its acid while escaping his grasp. (3) 4 Tails burns Bee with it’s Floral Mountain Lava Style (We see Bee’s hands burning and Steaming afterwards). (4) Scaling from KCM Naruto, V2’s are able to hurt him (2 Tails) and to a degree overpower him (3 Tails Coral Palm) when KCM is also able to tank being chomped down on by Fully Transformed 4 Tails and match 4 Tails Grip w/ Chakra Arms.

Ref. Chapters 566-569

We are discussing that now, based on the Minato One Shot Story.

I don't know if the acid or the lava scale to their physiques for that plus a jutsu that doesn't scale to their physiques and the coral didn't hurt Naruto that much