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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

MinatoSparkle said:
Uh well I meant more in terms of tiering in the verse
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Since you want a serious answer, he'd still just be vaguely "higher" into 6-C (or whatever the Bijū level tier would be at the time), since Sage Mode has no accepted multiplier and never will.
But since this is a complete hypothetical, obviously if he'd had better feats against people rated way higher, then that's where he'd scale. Like, if his Sage Rasengan had shattered the Perfect Susanoo or some crazy shit, then yeah lol.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Naruto might've been an exception cause he still had some of the other Bijū's chakra. Or maybe it's a retcon or a slight oversight on Kishimoto's part.
But at the time he was writing the Kushina stuff at least, the assumption was that she was going to die even if Kurama was resealed inside her.

It is also possible that Minato and Kushina simply didn't know that if Kurama was returned to her, she might survive. It's not like that sort of thing happened before, so maybe they were acting under false pretenses or incomplete information
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Or it might be that way coz unlike every other jinjuriki of the 9 tals naruto was the only perfect one and as such it might have changed the whole dynamics. Also i always thought it was Obito use of his rinnengan that made Naruto not die
 
karo_senpaii said:
Or it might be that way coz unlike every other jinjuriki of the 9 tals naruto was the only perfect one and as such it might have changed the whole dynamics.
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Who knows, maybe.
karo_senpaii said:
Also i always thought it was Obito use of his rinnengan that made Naruto not die
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Nah, he just resealed Kurama inside him. It's not like he used Rinne Rebirth or anything.
 
If Black Zetsu had Obito target the Kages on the scene when he saved Madara with Rinne Rebirth, wouldn't that leave them vulnerable to IT and thus advance his plans further?
 
SlendVeny said:
If Black Zetsu had Obito target the Kages on the scene when he saved Madara with Rinne Rebirth, wouldn't that leave them vulnerable to IT and thus advance his plans further?
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The kages were pm irrelevant the moment IT happened. Outside of Hagoromo showing up that is
Plus having to face a full strength hashirama is not something that'll be beneficial to Madara/Zetsu
Imagine having to deal with hashirama on top of the 9 bijuus
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Since you want a serious answer, he'd still just be vaguely "higher" into 6-C (or whatever the Bijū level tier would be at the time), since Sage Mode has no accepted multiplier and never will.
But since this is a complete hypothetical, obviously if he'd had better feats against people rated way higher, then that's where he'd scale. Like, if his Sage Rasengan had shattered the Perfect Susanoo or some crazy shit, then yeah lol.
Click to expand...
By tiering in the verse I moreso mean inverse ranking in comparison to other characters, not really his numerical stats. Like if he was 15th strongest in Naruto in base, would be like 12th or 14th in Sage Mode or whatever.
 
So if the War Arc ended without Hagoromo having to intervene and Naruto never got any Six Paths Powers, is there ANY Kage or Kage level Ninja (Past or Present at that time) his base would have been strong enough to beat 1-on-1, with everything we know about him.

This means even taking into account even the fact he knows how to cloak his kunai and such in Wind Style and such. No SM, no Kyuubi Chakra.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
By tiering in the verse I moreso mean inverse ranking in comparison to other characters, not really his numerical stats. Like if he was 15th strongest in Naruto in base, would be like 12th or 14th in Sage Mode or whatever.
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If we Cap it at just EMS Madara and SM Hashirama, then he’s peer to them with SM. No nobody else has a chance.

Especially with we scale Minato’s Chakra Strength to 9 Tails V2 Kushina. SM Minato is likely packing up even BSM Naruto mid diff at most.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
So if the War Arc ended without Hagoromo having to intervene and Naruto never got any Six Paths Powers, is there ANY Kage or Kage level Ninja (Past or Present at that time) his base would have been strong enough to beat 1-on-1, with everything we know about him.

This means even taking into account even the fact he knows how to cloak his kunai and such in Wind Style and such. No SM, no Kyuubi Chakra.
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I think he's packing up BoS Gaara easily. Rasa, Yagura, the 3rd Kazekage, Mei, and the 3rd Raikage are debatable.
NeoKingOfLight said:
If we Cap it at just EMS Madara and SM Hashirama, then he’s peer to them with SM. No nobody else has a chance.

Especially with we scale Minato’s Chakra Strength to 9 Tails V2 Kushina. SM Minato is likely packing up even BSM Naruto mid diff at most.
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Er...Idk about that one. KCM Minato rivals BSM Naruto, SM Minato is weaker. Also MKCM2 Naruto>Base Minato so BSM Naruto>SM Minato
 
MinatoSparkle said:
By tiering in the verse I moreso mean inverse ranking in comparison to other characters, not really his numerical stats. Like if he was 15th strongest in Naruto in base, would be like 12th or 14th in Sage Mode or whatever.
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Tbh I don't think a longer lasting Sage Mode would dramatically change his overall ranking, but imo it would just further solidify wherever I have his Sage Mode currently (which I'm not too sure about tbf).
So the fights I already had him winning, he'd win more confidently/comfortably. And the fights I had him losing or were maybe 50/50 situations, would just become a bit closer or skewed a bit more in his favor.
But obviously this is gonna vary from person to person depending on their personal scaling and what have you.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Tbh I don't think a longer lasting Sage Mode would dramatically change his overall ranking, but imo it would just further solidify wherever I have his Sage Mode currently (which I'm not too sure about tbf).
So the fights I already had him winning, he'd win more confidently/comfortably. And the fights I had him losing or were maybe 50/50 situations, would just become a bit closer or skewed a bit more in his favor.
But obviously this is gonna vary from person to person depending on their personal scaling and what have you.
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His Sage Mode kinda seems to only last for one attack so it might actually make a big difference tbh
 
MinatoSparkle said:
I think he's packing up BoS Gaara easily. Rasa, Yagura, the 3rd Kazekage, Mei, and the 3rd Raikage are debatable.
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Interesting… 🤔 Well, Wouldn’t Rasa be weaker than BoShippuden Gaara?
MinatoSparkle said:
Er...Idk about that one. KCM Minato rivals BSM Naruto, SM Minato is weaker. Also MKCM2 Naruto>Base Minato so BSM Naruto>SM Minato
Click to expand...
Actually, that isn’t actually the case.
  1. BM Minato and BSM Naruto attacked Juubito once together in a combined Jutsu. There is no comp to be made here on if BM Minato = BSM Naruto based on this instance. If Minato is stronger, that doesn’t change the fact two could Combo together (They would’ve still had to because Naruto has Senjutsu, regardless if Minato was stronger).
  2. This goes back to one of the things I asked before and you responded to. Given the strength of Minato’s Chakra, if it is indeed accepted as being => V2 100% 9 Tails, would having Kurama’s Chakra be more of a boost for Naruto than Minato? It is more likely that Minato having Kurama is more “Addition” than a multiplier, as is the case for people like Kakashi, Naruto, Hinata, etc. And if this is the case, SM would actually offer Minato more of a boost than Kurama’s Chakra. Just like it can be argued SM offers BM Naruto more of a boost than simply gaining the other half of Kurama, which would be additive.
  3. There hasn’t been wide discussion on if, after the One Shot, BM Naruto is still > Minato. Of course if it isn’t accepted that Minato’s Chakra >= V2 100% 9 Tails, then yes, BM Naruto would be stronger. Last time I brought this up, it was leaning towards people thinking 100% V2 9 Tails is stronger than BM Naruto (Chakra vs Chakra).
  4. So it actually isn’t set in stone that BSM Naruto > SM Minato.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
His Sage Mode kinda seems to only last for one attack so it might actually make a big difference tbh
Click to expand...
In terms of how long he can fight in Sage Mode, yeah, absolutely.
But I meant that this wouldn't really change where I rank Minato as a character overall dramatically.

I guess I'll explain what I mean by that.
Say, if SM Minato vs Chojuro (just a random example, don't get triggered :ROFLMAO:) was some pitched battle and a 50/50 sort of affair. With a significantly longer lasting Sage Mode it'd sway things in favor of Minato for me. So he'd beat Chojuro more comfortably in my eyes. But it wouldn't magically make me say he beats Madara, for example.
That's kinda how I see it.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
Interesting… 🤔 Well, Wouldn’t Rasa be weaker than BoShippuden Gaara?
Click to expand...
Why?
NeoKingOfLight said:
Actually, that isn’t actually the case.
  1. BM Minato and BSM Naruto attacked Juubito once together in a combined Jutsu. There is no comp to be made here on if BM Minato = BSM Naruto based on this instance. If Minato is stronger, that doesn’t change the fact two could Combo together (They would’ve still had to because Naruto has Senjutsu, regardless if Minato was stronger).
Click to expand...
If Minato was stronger, he could've just attacked himself after Naruto added senjutsu to his Rasengan, so Naruto wouldn't slow him down. They're also knocked back comparably by the Rasengan exploding. Calling Minato support for someone he's stronger than would also be odd.
NeoKingOfLight said:
  1. This goes back to one of the things I asked before and you responded to. Given the strength of Minato’s Chakra, if it is indeed accepted as being => V2 100% 9 Tails, would having Kurama’s Chakra be more of a boost for Naruto than Minato? It is more likely that Minato having Kurama is more “Addition” than a multiplier, as is the case for people like Kakashi, Naruto, Hinata, etc. And if this is the case, SM would actually offer Minato more of a boost than Kurama’s Chakra. Just like it can be argued SM offers BM Naruto more of a boost than simply gaining the other half of Kurama, which would be additive.
Click to expand...
BM definitely isn't treated as an additive power. If it was, it would be legit useless for SPSM Naruto. But it (along with a little bit of chakra from the other Bijuu) boosted SPSM Naruto from being reacted to and blocked by Injured Pre-God Tree Juubidara to tangoing with Dual Rinnegan Juubidara.
NeoKingOfLight said:
  1. There hasn’t been wide discussion on if, after the One Shot, BM Naruto is still > Minato. Of course if it isn’t accepted that Minato’s Chakra >= V2 100% 9 Tails, then yes, BM Naruto would be stronger. Last time I brought this up, it was leaning towards people thinking 100% V2 9 Tails is stronger than BM Naruto (Chakra vs Chakra).
  2. So it actually isn’t set in stone that BSM Naruto > SM Minato.
Click to expand...
I mean it's kinda just stated (I imagine you're gonna say that it's only about chakra transferring but that's just a specific example given to highlight it and the greater context is chakra; he literally says Minato and Kushina pale in comparison to him which isn't something one would say when he's only better in a very niche trait).

And the narrative is pretty clearly for KCM2 Naruto to rival or surpass Minato, since Kakashi mistakes Naruto's speed for Minato's (which is Minato's best trait) and it's intended to allow Naruto to defeat Obito, who's close to Minato. Naruto's rapidly growing back is also tied to his arc of catching up to Minato, so his back being indistinguishable from Minato's symbolically completes his arc of reaching that level.

Featwise it also doesn't make sense to have Minato above him since KCM2 Naruto could physically damage a stronger Obito than the one that took Minato's Rasengan.
 
Testarossa002 said:
The kages were pm irrelevant the moment IT happened. Outside of Hagoromo showing up that is
Plus having to face a full strength hashirama is not something that'll be beneficial to Madara/Zetsu
Imagine having to deal with hashirama on top of the 9 bijuus
Click to expand...
I meant that they could use them as batteries.

Plus, without infinite stamina/chakra, and only being slightly stronger(like 5% at the max imo), and not having Edo regen, I don't think they're doing much.
 
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Personally I have SM Minato above Rinnegan Obito, MKCM2 Naruto, and Base Hashirama, but below BSM tier characters like EMS Madara, Peak EMS Sasuke, and Kurama
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Personally I have SM Minato above Rinnegan Obito, MKCM2 Naruto, and Base Hashirama, but below BSM tier characters like EMS Madara, Peak EMS Sasuke, and Kurama
Click to expand...
I have Base Minato at roughly Tobirama's level, and I have Tobirama at roughly Base Hashirama's level, so I have SM Minato at roughly SM Hashirama's level.

Hashirama's big wood is stronger tho
 
SlendVeny said:
O have Base Minato at roughly Tobirama's level, and I have Tobirama at roughly Base Hashirama's level, so I have SM Minato at roughly SM Hashirama's level.

Hashirama's big wood is stronger tho
Click to expand...
I probably have SM Minato at the bottom of the same tier where SM Hashirama's at the top, but def not the same level. If you exclude higher Wood Style jutsu like the Wood Dragon, Wood Golem, and Shinsuu Senju, then maybe.
 
MinatoSparkle said:
I probably have SM Minato at the bottom of the same tier where SM Hashirama's at the top, but def not the same level. If you exclude higher Wood Style jutsu like the Wood Dragon, Wood Golem, and Shinsuu Senju, then maybe.
Click to expand...
I'd say his Sage Rasengan would probably be on par with some of Hashirama's stuff, but probably not the Wood Golem or ShinsuSenju
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Physically, SM Minato does really well in that tier.
It's only when you factor in the Megazords and the mountain range sized Jutsu that things get outta hand lmfao.
Click to expand...
I just imagined that thing you did for your shorts with Code and Orochimaru being fraudulent and imagined SM Minato pushing aside Hashirama physically then hiding from the Perfect Susanoo and Shinsuu Senju 😭
 
Dope idea for a video: What if Naruto was in WW2
narutos-talk-no-jutsu-years-of-training-v0-5jpjiihkmwna1.jpg
 
MinatoSparkle said:
Why?
Click to expand...
Iirc, wasn’t it stated he was only Kage because of his hard Counter to Shukaku? As I recall he also has no significant statements. He was weaker than 3rd Kazekage lore I think and Gaara has better feats, even against Deidara (I ngl, I didn’t expect you to say Naruto beats this Gaara Easily).
MinatoSparkle said:
If Minato was stronger, he could've just attacked himself after Naruto added senjutsu to his Rasengan, so Naruto wouldn't slow him down.
Click to expand...
(1) It’s just slamming a Rasengan down. (2) I never said Naruto wasn’t able to keep up. (3) Chakra Strength is the topic of discussion, not “overall” ability, so there is no argument that was made that Naruto wouldn’t be able to keep up or that he would slow down Minato, even if Minato has stronger Chakra.
MinatoSparkle said:
They're also knocked back comparably by the Rasengan exploding.
Click to expand...
Same as above.
MinatoSparkle said:
Calling Minato support for someone he's stronger than would also be odd.
Click to expand...
I think you’re misunderstand the argument. The way I see it (Again, if the One Shot Scaling that i’m a proponent for is acceptable): SM Minato (Chakra Strength) > BSM Naruto (Chakra Strength) >= BM Minato (Additive (Chakra Strength)) > Base Minato (Chakra Strength) >= 100% V2 9 Tails (Chakra Strength) > BM Naruto (Chakra Strength).

So Minato being support is valid and doesn’t change anything.


MinatoSparkle said:
BM definitely isn't treated as an additive power. If it was, it would be legit useless for SPSM Naruto.
Click to expand...
It is. This is the reason why so many people had a hard time accepting that Base Naruto was so strong after gaining Six Paths Chakra. The strength of Kurama’s Chakra is insignificant compared to Hagoromo’s Six Paths Chakra. Hell it was Fodder against even Juubito. Does it have its perks? Yes. Cloaks, Chakra Arms, “Volume” (Which is good for Stamina Reasons), Healing Factor, TBB (Which is AoE perks), etc. But that is amplified by the Six Paths Chakra. The other Biju Chakra + Kurama’s Chakra just gives Naruto extra Six Paths Chakra ontop of what Hagoromo gave him. So let’s be specific about it.
MinatoSparkle said:
But it (along with a little bit of chakra from the other Bijuu) boosted SPSM Naruto from being reacted to and blocked by Injured Pre-God Tree Juubidara to tangoing with Dual Rinnegan Juubidara.
Click to expand...
Refer Above + Base Naruto is still amped by the SPC. Kurama + Biju Chakra Together creates a fraction more SPC, which is negligible to the entire system. Also, idk if you remember but Sasuke w/o MS Activated is still able to tank DR Madara’s strikes without injury. Base Naruto scales to this Sasuke, so being able to tango w/ DR Madara isn’t as big a deal as you’re making it out to be and the fact remains that Kurama’s Chakra Strength and Benefits are negligible to the amp of SPC he has from Hagoromo. It didn’t change anything significantly.
MinatoSparkle said:
I mean it's kinda just stated (I imagine you're gonna say that it's only about chakra transferring but that's just a specific example given to highlight it and the greater context is chakra; he literally says Minato and Kushina pale in comparison to him which isn't something one would say when he's only better in a very niche trait).
Click to expand...
Not true and you’re wrong on the “greater context”. The context of his statements is in regard to Chakra Control, nothing more.
MinatoSparkle said:
And the narrative is pretty clearly for KCM2 Naruto to rival or surpass Minato, since Kakashi mistakes Naruto's speed for Minato's (which is Minato's best trait) and it's intended to allow Naruto to defeat Obito, who's close to Minato.
Click to expand...
The one shot clearly debunks this sentiment unless you think and want to argue that 100% V2’s are less than half the strength of their Biju, which is a notion that is proven wrong in the fight with Bee and Naruto. 🤷‍♂️

So unless you’re willing to say 100% V2 9 Tails is weaker than 50% 9 Tails, then Minato’s feats disprove (Or at Worst Retcons) that previous interpretation. Also, Minato says that Mastering that Chakra gives only a “chance” at beating Obito. It’s not a foregone conclusion. It’s bare-minimum.
MinatoSparkle said:
Naruto's rapidly growing back is also tied to his arc of catching up to Minato, so his back being indistinguishable from Minato's symbolically completes his arc of reaching that level.
Click to expand...
False. This only states Naruto “can”. It doesn’t mean Naruto “has”, and again, the one shot disabuses you of these notions.
MinatoSparkle said:
Featwise it also doesn't make sense to have Minato above him since KCM2 Naruto could physically damage a stronger Obito than the one that took Minato's Rasengan.
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And by how much stronger is this Obito vs YM Obito physically? Minato made him lose an arm and blood shoot from out his back around his spine/ribs. It could be that Obito being stronger is why he isn’t as badly hurt. I also remember a few people arguing he tanked this Naruto’s Rasengan to the face w/o Damage, which would negate your argument.

Ntm, again, the One Shot disproves he is stronger than Minato.
 
I mean honestly, this is all finished based on if 100% V2 9 Tails is stronger than 50% 9 Tails.

That’s all that matters here. It doesn’t even have to be a long debate.
 
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