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Haku’s mirrors were never retconned, they just don’t scale to anyone. Because a very specific part of jutsu is LS, he was stated to be slowing down during the part of the fight Sasuke was starting to keep up, and he deep down didn’t have it in him to kill either Naruto or Sasuke.
I agree with one or two things here.

I think scaling the genin from this feat isn't a bad thing even if haku was holding back speedwise as Lee was never blitzed by sound, he blocked in time, the sound would have reached him anyways and he's fatigued.

However if we do not scale him to the genin, which is fine then I just think base guy and Lee easily scale to his speed by having the feat. He'd have to be going LS using 1 mirror or more, or else there's no use for this literal speed technique which is stated to go LS and he'd have to have another mirror somewhere on the battle field hence the databook outright stating he needs it.

Lastly I think it's goofy that Naruto never wanted to surpass haku or his clan who can use the same technique if he was faster then even the kages which are stated to be the strongest in their respective villages.
 
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Rock Lee's Original Design for Road to the Ninja
 
Except as I said, you don’t see him off screen and he is by the body of the guy he knocked out/killed. So… it’s not that clear 🤷‍♂️
B-b-but that nerfs his ability 😱 just wait for the Daemon fight where he reiterates what Bug says, and everyone acts all surprised like “what but but but this is contradicted by the manga”, when it’s not, people just have selective reading.
 
B-b-but that nerfs his ability 😱 just wait for the Daemon fight where he reiterates what Bug says, and everyone acts all surprised like “what but but but this is contradicted by the manga”, when it’s not, people just have selective reading.
Real. Tbh I loathe the "Feats>statements" line now. It was once used to distinguish between flowery language and legit statements. But now people just use it to disregard author statements just to fit their narrative.
 
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Except as I said, you don’t see him off screen and he is by the body of the guy he knocked out/killed. So… it’s not that clear 🤷‍♂️
If he is by the body of the guy he knocked out what does that matter? If you are trying to imply the guy that jumped off code back itching for a fight and went to attack directly suddenly bent down and touched the guy he knocked out to avoid fighting a guard directly then that makes no sense. By the way check the second pic, we are showed daemon legs in the exact position he was after he knocked the guard out. Meaning he didn't even move all the while the guy head went off
 
Real. Tbh I loathe the "Feats>statements" line now. It was once used to distinguish between flowery language and legit statements. But now people just use it to disregard author statements just to fit their narrative.
what we have is bug and amado. Bug isn't all that reliable and amado well considering he was wrong about ada ability I also don't trust him. Amado statement is not even straightforward
 
what we have is bug and amado. Bug isn't all that reliable and amado well considering he was wrong about ada ability I also don't trust him. Amado statement is not even straightforward
I was more replying to Arc's comment about "selective reading". But even in your case, we really don't have definitive proof that his ability doesn't need touch. But we do have solid statements which require mental gymnastics to refute. You say you don't trust Bug or Amado, but there would have to be a reason why the author decided to drop those statements knowing that they aren't true. It would require more assumptions to disregard these statements than to just say, "because we don't see his hands at the time of reflection, it is possible that he did infact touch someone, so therefore I believe Amado and Bug because nothing yet has directly contradicted that".
 
I was more replying to Arc's comment about "selective reading". But even in your case, we really don't have definitive proof that his ability doesn't need touch. But we do have solid statements which require mental gymnastics to refute. You say you don't trust Bug or Amado, but there would have to be a reason why the author decided to drop those statements knowing that they aren't true. It would require more assumptions to disregard these statements than to just say, "because we don't see his hands at the time of reflection, it is possible that he did infact touch someone, so therefore I believe Amado and Bug because nothing yet has directly contradicted that".
There is a reason why i am here discussing with you and not making a CRT. I gave my line of reasoning as to what happened with the guard. And amado already being wrong about eida ability makes me doubt him more. Also i don't think amado said daemon needs to be touching someone to reflect. I Just think people read that particular sentence wrong
 
There would've been no reason for Daemon and Eida to tell Bug to stfu if he was lying.
That's fair. They could also be shutting him up not coz he is lying but he just thinks that's what it is and they are just preventing him from blurting out more abilities that would probably be right about.
 
That's fair. They could also be shutting him up not coz he is lying but he just thinks that's what it is and they are just preventing him from blurting out more abilities that would probably be right about.
That doesn't logically follow whatsoever, the sooner you realize Ikemoto likes to establish weaknesses for his OP abilities, such that he doesn't write himself into a hole with no way to beat characters, the better off you'll be. And just food for thought, but maybe there's a reason they show Daemon touching people whenever his ability activates after they revealed that info through Bug. I wonder...
 
There is a reason why i am here discussing with you and not making a CRT.
Sure. You are entitled to your opinions. I understand that this is your interpretation.
I gave my line of reasoning as to what happened with the guard.
I read it after and it is a hypothesis not a debunk of the statements. Your interpretation would take precedence after you have refuted the statements.
And amado already being wrong about eida ability makes me doubt him more.
Amado hasn't been wrong about the mechanics of an ability that the user should know about. He has been wrong about stuff that even the user didn't know. It makes no sense for Amado to not know something that Daemon knows. He created him. Also the fact that Ada reacted that way.
Also i don't think amado said daemon needs to be touching someone to reflect.
I disagree.
I Just think people read that particular sentence wrong
Aight.
 
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That doesn't logically follow whatsoever, the sooner you realize Ikemoto likes to establish weaknesses for his OP abilities, such that he doesn't write himself into a hole with no way to beat characters, the better off you'll be. And just food for thought, but maybe there's a reason they show Daemon touching people whenever his ability activates after they revealed that info through Bug. I wonder...
It does not follow logically to you and that's fine. they only showed it when he fought kawaki and they had done so with code prior when he rides people. That does not really factor into me. Writing a character with an OP ability and immediately announcing the weakness of said ability before the character can even successfully use it in a major fight is what is actually not logically sound except if there is a hidden caveat or the weakness is just a distraction
Sure. You are entitled to your opinions. I understand that this is your interpretation.

I read it after and it is a hypothesis not a debunk of the statements. Your interpretation would take precedence after you have refuted the statements.

Amado hasn't been wrong about the mechanics of an ability that the user should know about. He has been wrong about stuff that even the user didn't know. It makes no sense for Amado to not know something that Daemon knows. He created him. Also the fact that Ada reacted that way.

I disagree.

Aight.
you can disagree quite alright no issues. I'm just telling you why I think what I think.
By the way eida knew she had omnipotence or at least she knew her ability was brought forth from something else, Amado did not have that knowledge or at least pretends not to, so you are wrong on that
 
That doesn't logically follow whatsoever, the sooner you realize Ikemoto likes to establish weaknesses for his OP abilities,
good take
one of the biggest shifts post absorption era from Ikemoto and from naruto in general is having most characters be less like swiss army knives with a deep bag (unless bort) and more about having strong individualistic and hyper specific powers with limitations, which will either be used to exploit or used in creative ways.

see Uzuhiko, Omnipotence, Sukonohikona ect.

that being said i see both sides in regards to the daemon thing, which is why i feel comfortable saying we should just wait till we see him fight again.
 
It does not follow logically to you and that's fine. they only showed it when he fought kawaki and they had done so with code prior when he rides people. That does not really factor into me. Writing a character with an OP ability and immediately announcing the weakness of said ability before the character can even successfully use it in a major fight is what is actually not logically sound except if there is a hidden caveat or the weakness is just a distraction
It doesn't logically follow in general* and revealing an ability before a proper fight doesn't make it not logically sound whatsoever.

which is why i feel comfortable saying we should just wait till we see him fight again
That's what I'm saying and what I said earlier, I just added the caveat that I'm gonna be right when it happens :devilish:
 
you can disagree quite alright no issues. I'm just telling you why I think what I think.
I understand
By the way eida knew she had omnipotence or at least she knew her ability was brought forth from something else, Amado did not have that knowledge or at least pretends not to, so you are wrong on that
Source?

Aight, time to log off.
be funnier if yall are both wrong
What if Daemon has to touch himself to reflect?
 
It doesn't logically follow in general* and revealing an ability before a proper fight doesn't make it not logically sound whatsoever.


That's what I'm saying and what I said earlier, I just added the caveat that I'm gonna be right when it happens :devilish:
Revealing the weakness of an OP ability before a fight just defeats the point of the ability. It's like if kakashi figured out obito whole shtick before the 4GNW

By the way how can i save this post for a "told you so" moment when I'm right?
 
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