Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[OneBleachHurricane]

Manga (here and here) and Databook consistently say Pre TS Choji has the highest physical strength of the Sasuke Retrieval Group, and it gives him a 3.5 and everyone else ranges from 2 to 3.

Does it refer to Chouji with or without the use of Multi-Size Technique?

Akimichi Clan Taijutsu: Changing size through the use of the Multi-Size Technique allows the user to perform various Taijutsu techniques developed specifically for the Akimichi clan's unique fighting style.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Hmmm, that does seems very consistent. Maybe a thread should be made to get it officially accepted.

 

[KingTempest]

Does it refer to Chouji with or without the use of Multi-Size Technique?

Akimichi Clan Taijutsu: Changing size through the use of the Multi-Size Technique allows the user to perform various Taijutsu techniques developed specifically for the Akimichi clan's unique fighting style.

Doesn't elaborate on specific forms, the stats are very vague

Like this for example, it doesn't say specific forms, just the overall strength

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Well, that could be an issue unless we just assume its refering to their base form.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Doesn't elaborate on specific forms, the stats are very vague

That's problematic because most of Chouji's Part I Taijutsu feats are done through the use of Multi-Size Technique and eating his Clan Pills

 

[LordTracer]

Part I Chōji’s only feat without the Multi-Size Jutsu or pills is breaking out of Jirobo’s barrier.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Part I Chōji’s only feat without the Multi-Size Jutsu or pills is breaking out of Jirobo’s barrier.

He also destroyed the giant rock Jirobo threw at them.

 

[KingTempest]

Hmmm, that does seems very consistent. Maybe a thread should be made to get it officially accepted.

The only issue is some of the strength that contradicts certain opinionated scaling.

For example, Choji has a higher striking that Hiruzen. Hiruzen has no striking feats whatsoever to say otherwise, and it's supported by his age and statements of his strength declining, but to say that Choji is physically superior to Hiruzen boggles a lot of minds.

Well, that could be an issue unless we just assume its refering to their base form.

That's problematic because most of Chouji's Part I Taijutsu feats are done through the use of Multi-Size Technique and eating his Clan Pills

Manga already says that he's superior, and he's showcased his superiority in base, so it's still fine.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Part I Chōji’s only feat without the Multi-Size Jutsu or pills is breaking out of Jirobo’s barrier.

That's the Human Bullet Tank though

Nikudan Sensha (Human Bullet Tank): To use this technique, the user must first perform the Multi-Size Technique to transform their body into a round shape. The user will begin to spin rapidly, and they throw the mass of their large body at the target like a giant cannonball. As the user's body rolls, the added momentum generates a heavy attack.

 

[LordTracer]

For example, Choji has a higher striking that Hiruzen. Hiruzen has no striking feats whatsoever to say otherwise

Hiruzen traded blows with Prime Orochimaru, with this same Orochimaru being stated to be capable of defeating CS2 Sasuke. So yeah, Hiruzen does have stuff to suggest he’s not weaker than genin Chōji.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

He also destroyed the giant rock Jirobo threw at them.

Still through the use of the Nikudan Sensha (Human Bullet Tank)

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Am I the only one who thinks Haku should be rated higher?

Just a bump.

 

[LordTracer]

Haku’s not going higher than 7-C.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Just a bump.

In what regards specifically?

 

[KingTempest]

Hiruzen traded blows with Prime Orochimaru, with this same Orochimaru being stated to be capable of defeating CS2 Sasuke. So yeah, Hiruzen does have stuff to suggest he’s not weaker than genin Chōji.

In Choji's defense, Orochimaru has a higher physical strength stat than Hiruzen, and the staff could raise his striking.

The databook says for the staff that Hiruzen uses

Transformation: Adamantine Staff (Henge: Kongounyoi)​

• Ninjutsu, Supplementary
• User(s): Monkey King Enma

Under a Staff form he assumes at will, Enma becomes Adamantine and bares his fangs!!

The Third Hokage’s comrade in arms, the Monkey King Enma’s Transformation Technique. Characterized by the hardness of diamond and its at-will extensibility, Adamantine Staff is the Third’s weapon of choice, so to speak and with it in hand he’s made it through a world of war for an extended period of time.

Also, when Enma is transformed into the Adamantine Staff, it is also possible that he can attack out of his own free will, his claws and fangs add an element of surprise and irregularity. Forged in the fire of battle, its at-will transformation-based attack and defense go beyond the scope of proficiency, to attain the realm of shinobi godhood.

The main method of attack consists in strikes and thrusts that take advantage of its extensibility. The hardness of diamond translates into destructive power.

Enma’s fangs assault the enemy!

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

he's showcased his superiority in base

When did this happen?

 

[KingTempest]

When did this happen?

Nvm, you guys explained he used his jutsu.

His jutsu could tie into it though

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Nvm, you guys explained he used his jutsu.

His jutsu could tie into it though

Oh okay

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

So it says the hardness of diamonds, does that mean we can use diamond density for the staff?

 

[Cyberblader90]

that would be kind of fodder, would it not?

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

that would be kind of fodder, would it not?

Probably, but it would be nice to calc it and see.

 

[KingTempest]

So it says the hardness of diamonds, does that mean we can use diamond density for the staff?

Hardness ≠ Density, but if someone wants to translate it and they get something else, possibly.

that would be kind of fodder, would it not?

Regular materials in fiction are broken.
Regular iron can be 7-A

 

[LordTracer]

In Choji's defense, Orochimaru has a higher physical strength stat than Hiruzen, and the staff could raise his striking.

For Hiruzen to be beneath Chōji and still able to combat Orochimaru, the staff would have to raise his strength by 10x, and that’s a lowball tbh.

For the sake of demonstration, let’s say Butterfly Chōji is equal to Kimimaro since they both scale far above CS2 Jirobo. Part II Sasuke while suppressed was compared to Kimimaro by Jirobo, his full power was far stronger, and then he has CS2 to multiply his base by over 10x. Orochimaru then scales above that, and Hiruzen (while slightly weaker) scales to Orochimaru.

Chōji at his peak ≈ Kimimaro ≈ Suppressed Sasuke < Full Power Sasuke 10x< CS2 Sasuke < Orochimaru >= Hiruzen

So yeah, Hiruzen being beneath even Butterfly Chōji doesn’t make much sense.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

That's Fiction I Guess?

 

[KingTempest]

For Hiruzen to be beneath Chōji and still able to combat Orochimaru, the staff would have to raise his strength by 10x, and that’s a lowball tbh.

You know for a fact that weapons in Naruto can close stupidly large gaps. Look at Samehada.

For the sake of demonstration, let’s say Butterfly Chōji is equal to Kimimaro since they both scale far above CS2 Jirobo. Part II Sasuke while suppressed was compared to Kimimaro by Jirobo, his full power was far stronger, and then he has CS2 to multiply his base by over 10x. Orochimaru then scales above that, and Hiruzen (while slightly weaker) scales to Orochimaru.

Chōji at his peak ≈ Kimimaro ≈ Suppressed Sasuke < Full Power Sasuke 10x< CS2 Sasuke < Orochimaru >= Hiruzen

Btw, Choji scales above Kimimaru (Choji's physicals = 3.5, Kimimaro's physicals = 3, Orochimaru's physicals 3.5, Hiruzen's physicals 3) via the stats, and Jirobo has the highest stat in the series (a 5) with pure arm strength.

So yeah, Hiruzen being beneath even Butterfly Chōji doesn’t make much sense.

It's strictly arm strength btw.

Mangaka don't think there's a huge gap in all stats between characters.
Some people think Itachi is billions of times physically stronger than everyone, but even Kurenai could take kicks from him.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Mangaka don't think

FACTS

 

[LordTracer]

You know for a fact that weapons in Naruto can close stupidly large gaps. Look at Samehada.

Samehada doesn’t amp strength though, it just feeds Kisame chakra to replenish his stamina.

Btw, Choji scales above Kimimaru (Choji's physicals = 3.5, Kimimaro's physicals = 3, Orochimaru's physicals 3.5, Hiruzen's physicals 3) via the stats, and Jirobo has the highest stat in the series (a 5) with pure arm strength.

Jirobo being the strongest is directly contradicted by the manga, which says he’s the weakest Sound Four member on two separate occasions, three if you include Akamaru saying Kidomaru was stronger than him.

Also the databook puts Kakashi’s strength at a 3.5, same as Orochimaru, even though Kakashi saw the idea of him even contending with Orochimaru as delusional and could only envision himself getting decapitated if they fought.

It also puts Haku at a 1.5, despite him being able to clash with Rock Lee (a 3.5 in the second databook and a 4.5 in the third) as an Edo Tensei, it puts Zabuza at a 4 even though he was evenly matched with Kakashi, etc, etc.

It's strictly arm strength btw.

Mangaka don't think there's a huge gap in all stats between characters.
Some people think Itachi is billions of times physically stronger than everyone, but even Kurenai could take kicks from him.

Kurenai is featless so that doesn’t really prove or disprove your point.

 

[Shadyboi0]

huge gap in all stats between characters.

DBS is rolling in its grave right now

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

Well, maybe the databook isn't as solid as I thought.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

In what regards specifically?

I sort of want to make a [Tempest will lose his mind] type thread, but I suppose I should elaborate.

Haku was stated on multiple occasions to be holding back from the very beginning against Naruto and Sasuke, as is strong enough to the point where even Kakashi couldn't beat him. Kakashi who could barely keep up with Zabuza on both occasions even after pulling out his Sharingan, and Zabuza outright saying the same tricks wouldn't work on him twice. Kakashi being an equal to Base Kabuto. Meanwhile, Haku as an Edo Tensei (which is perfected by Orochimaru, putting them at their full strength), Haku could react and block attacks from both Might Guy and Rock Lee, the former who could keep up with a casual Kisame and is stated not to be underestimated by Itachi, twice, and is consistently shown as a threat to the Akatsuki.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I sort of want to make a [Tempest will lose his mind] type thread, but I suppose I should elaborate.

But didn't Haku feel hopeless against KN0 Naruto because his main method of fighting (Needles and Acupuncture) was useless?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

But didn't Haku feel hopeless against KN0 Naruto because his main method of fighting (Needles and Acupuncture) was useless?

Not necessarily, no, he wasn't even trying to kill him, and he had already lost a lot of chakra just trying to incap them, as Crystal Ice Mirrrors drains his chakra very fast.

 

[KingTempest]

Samehada doesn’t amp strength though, it just feeds Kisame chakra to replenish his stamina.

The weight of the sword is enough as it is.
A metal pole doesn't amp your strength either, but hit a door with your fist then hit it with the metal pole, look which is different.

Jirobo being the strongest is directly contradicted by the manga, which says he’s the weakest Sound Four member on two separate occasions, three if you include Akamaru saying Kidomaru was stronger than him.

Also the databook puts Kakashi’s strength at a 3.5, same as Orochimaru, even though Kakashi saw the idea of him even contending with Orochimaru as delusional and could only envision himself getting decapitated if they fought.

It also puts Haku at a 1.5, despite him being able to clash with Rock Lee (a 3.5 in the second databook and a 4.5 in the third) as an Edo Tensei, it puts Zabuza at a 4 even though he was evenly matched with Kakashi, etc, etc.

Tracer, there's more to "strength" than striking.

Kimimaro's superior to everyone else and he has high stats in everything but striking (4 in Ninjutsu, 5 in Taijutsu, 4.5 in Speed, but his physicals are 3), and his skill was what was primarily showcased.

Kidomaru's an intelligent fighter but his striking isn't good, evident by how even Shikamaru could block his attacks.

Tayuya has a 5 in genjutsu, evident by all her genjutsu feats.

Orochimaru was never shown to be a physical fighter, his "strength" was primarily in his ninjutsu (evident by his 5 in Ninjutsu), and he doesn't say "the ultimate being" is from physicals, it's from ninjutsu (here again).

Kurenai is featless so that doesn’t really prove or disprove your point.

Fair

 

[KingTempest]

I sort of want to make a [Tempest will lose his mind] type thread

Am I famous?

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Am I famous?

I guess.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Haku deserves justice. He should also be lightspeed using the mirrors, that shit isn't accepted because "muuuh hyperbole" or "muuuuh outlier"

 

[KingTempest]

Haku should be LS, it's just the matter of those who scale to him that's the issue.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Haku deserves justice. He should also be lightspeed using the mirrors, that shit isn't accepted because "muuuh hyperbole" or "muuuuh outlier"

Oh my god, you have read my ******* mind.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Not necessarily, no, he wasn't even trying to kill him, and he had already lost a lot of chakra just trying to incap them, as Crystal Ice Mirrrors drains his chakra very fast.

Yeah, but his feats against KN0 Naruto, Base Lee, and Base Guy were mostly Durability and Reaction feats anyway.

His AP mostly comes from his knowledge on the usage of Needles, and Acupuncture.

Does Haku have any Striking Strength Feats?

 

[KingTempest]

Yeah, but his feats against KN0 Naruto, Base Lee, and Base Guy were mostly Durability and Reaction feats anyway.

His AP mostly comes from his knowledge on the usage of Needles, and Acupuncture.

Does Haku have any Striking Strength Feats?