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Please what was the main argument?
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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
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I’m about to play some DnD ask me tomorrow cuz I don’t remember off the dome
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1. The self imposed limit involves him submitting his powers to the control of someone who isn't an otsusuki and who he hates. The other is just self control. There is a big difference.
2. From the way amado spoke it seemed to be something he discovered when the ritual took place
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1. Minatosparkle post.
2. It was because of Jigen not taking chances. It doesn't matter what Code felt. If Isshiki saw him as a potential threat, he would be sealed.
3. Well even if we accept it did amp their strength, there's no way to assume it amped Code's base strength greater than Jigen's. This is just facts. Point is White Karma was what made the difference - the reaction.
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1. Already answered it.
2. This is wrong. It was made very clear that jigen knew code was a devotee of his and as such could care less if he was stronger and did not dispose him..it was code who on his own decide to put limiters on himself
3. I just explained. Karma causing reaction. To change biology ≠ karma needing to be activated to show that change. By default a biological change happens at all layers. Base or wk is irrelevant
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Actually… It may imply Kawaki = Code. According to Boruto, Amado limited Kawaki’s strength only to be enough to fight Code level Threats.
So V2 Kawaki “may” actually rival Code.
Unless I misunderstood.
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The hate on Amado started after his defection though.
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Did it? Maybe I'm not remembering right. Either way submitting yourself to the hands of a non otsusuki when there is an easier opportunity is just not code like
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1. okay
2. No. That's an assumption. It's likely because of the limiters that Jigen saw how devoted Code was, and not before.
3. Yes a biological change occurs even in Base, but it would be an assumption to state the activation of WK is unnecessary to empowering the base. That would be too different from what has already been established
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And karma is Isshiki's raw power. The karma serves to augment the vessel closer to the parent Otsutsuki's power. If the vessel is already stronger than the Otsutsuki, then karma's raw power is irrelevant to the vessel.
For Unlimited Base Code to consider the WK irrelevant is to consider Isshiki's raw power irrelevant. That can't be possible because Isshiki's raw power is still greater than Code's.
For Unlimited Base Code to consider the WK irrelevant is to consider Isshiki's raw power irrelevant. That can't be possible because Isshiki's raw power is still greater than Code's.
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MinatoSparkle
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I don't see why him hating Amado is such a big deal in this situation. Also, he theoretically wanted to remain in his limited state forever if Jigen remained alive, so submitting his powers to anyone's control shouldn't have been an issue.
Could just be that the reaction caused his power to eventually surpass Jigen. I don't disagree with him surpassing Jigen initially though. He could've been very quick to unlock the Karma.
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Yeah I'm not claiming this at all
2. I didn't make any assumptions. I was told in the manga that jigen had no say in code putting limiters. He did that himself. You're the one making assumptions here. You claim he put the limiters Coz jigen would dispose him of he didn't. The manga tells me he put it himself on his own just to not undermine jigen authority. I'm believing the manga
3. Again did you misread what I typed? I just did not infer this at all. By irrelevant I mean the differentiation between who surpasses jigen between base and karma code is Irrelevant as the reaction occcurs biologically at all layers. If it is only for WK that's not a reaction. That's just a temporary boost
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1. Code an otsusuki worshiper is submitting authority to a non otsusuki ? With another option in play? You don't see how this?
2. This is actually wrong. He knew ishikki himself would eventually reincarnate in full power in kawaki. This is why amado separates that he revers jigen and worships ishikki. So eventually his powers would have been just fine to use below ishikki
3. I mean eventually seems like a reach tbh. If we just take the statement with the simplest interpretation it's just at the spot of the ritual the reaction changes his biology and he surpasses jigen. That's all
MinatoSparkle
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Wait wait wait. If boruto says there is nothing he can do about jura on his own doesn't that make jura relative or greater than uzuhiko?
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Potentially. Or maybe there isn’t a future where Boruto just tags him with it. Base Code was able to react to Boruto and catch his hand without Karma. Jura isn’t even fazed by WK Code’s Combat Speed, so…
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Maybe he just doesn’t have the time to charge it up enough by himself
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Unless it has been nerfed I remember no one can touch Boruto while he is in that state.
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Speaking of which, based on their interaction, is Base Boruto deemed Equal to Base Code in Physicals? 
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Base boruto is >>> than code
Like V2 jigen >> Naruto + sasuke
Like V2 jigen >> Naruto + sasuke
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Guys, let’s reason together . Just like Galactus a cosmic entity from Marvel Comics, who derives his power primarily from consuming the energy of entire planets (bro is easily above universal by the way). Are we really saying that an Otsutsuki like Isshiki, who has consumed countless planetary chakra fruits over thousands of years, is only capable of producing planetary-level energy or capped there?
Consider the nature of these chakra fruits—they contain:
• The power of the Otsutsuki sacrifice.
• The combined energy of an entire planet.
They have repeated this process over millennia, but we’re expected to believe their ultimate limit is still just planetary? Their entire goal is to achieve godhood, a state where they possess:
Omnipotence—the power that can easily write or rewrite worlds (universes).
How long would it take for them to even reach star level, let alone godhood, if their ceiling is planetary ( with at least A thousand planetary fruit/energy)? Lore-wise, this doesn’t add up at all.
Consider the nature of these chakra fruits—they contain:
• The power of the Otsutsuki sacrifice.
• The combined energy of an entire planet.
They have repeated this process over millennia, but we’re expected to believe their ultimate limit is still just planetary? Their entire goal is to achieve godhood, a state where they possess:
Omnipotence—the power that can easily write or rewrite worlds (universes).
How long would it take for them to even reach star level, let alone godhood, if their ceiling is planetary ( with at least A thousand planetary fruit/energy)? Lore-wise, this doesn’t add up at all.
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MinatoSparkle
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Where are y'all reading the English translation?
MinatoSparkle
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Nvm I found a site. Man
Code getting embarrassed so badly was so funny 
Jura really sniped his hand then was like "Go do your job boy." Mamushi was great too. Also loved Boruto and Kawaki finally having a talk.
Jura really sniped his hand then was like "Go do your job boy." Mamushi was great too. Also loved Boruto and Kawaki finally having a talk.
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i wonder how Amado is gonna weasel his way out of this one
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Galactus should NEVER be in the same analogy as the otsutsuki:
doesn't rewrite any universe
the same lore that hardcapped the verse to 5-B with uzuhiko?
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That ain't Galactus.Galactus should NEVER be in the same analogy as the otsutsuki:
Are people really taking Boruto's "limitless" statement literally?
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1.?? Please read againGalactus should NEVER be in the same analogy as the otsutsuki:
doesn't rewrite any universe
the same lore that hardcapped the verse to 5-B with uzuhiko?
2.
Well it created the current world as it is.
3. Uzuhiko does not cap the verse. In fact it should not. The lore does not Support it neither does the evidence presented.
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You believe uzuhiko caps the verse?
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Not in the way that people seem to think. I don't think Boruto's "limitless" statement should be paired with Uzuhiko's current rating to cap the verse to 5-B.
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i know that's ultron lmao. i posted it just to show what massive "eating" feats actually look like, because galactus >>>>> ultron
dont look at me, it was even accepted on this site.
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I did. please use better analogies that don't insta-debunk your own argument next time.
doesn't say universe anywhere, so not sure why you equivocate the word "worlds" with "universes", they are DIFFERENT things, and the naruto franchise has made the distinction clear on multiple occasions. furthermore, it says it created "worlds", however as far as we know there no "multiple universes" in the cosmology.
it's a soft cap, like it or not. were it really as wrong as you think it is, it wouldn't have been accepted. while powerscaling has a subjective component i don't know why you act like your way of scaling is the only correct way.
no wonder you lost to Arc and Hades badly
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you do realize otsutsuki devour life in a planet rather than just planets
thought we all agreed that was a terrible cap for the verse
thought we all agreed that was a terrible cap for the verse
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For me I just interpret that part as It’s powered by the planet’s rotation and other kinetic energies, which the planet continuously generates. As a result, the longer he charges it, the more powerful it becomes.
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There was a thread for that?
HelloThere1089
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No. Nothing has been accepted like that. It might be considered a soft cap for future attempts but it's definitely not a discussion rule yet. Everyone is open to make good arguments just like they are to debunk them.
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not an actual thread, but its one reason why further upgrade attempts to shippuden god tiers aren't being accepted for now
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Beginning to think ikemoto would take a break soon.
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Please read all I took my time to craft this
1. Galactus, draws his primary power from the Power Cosmic, energy that is absorbed from planets, particularly those with abundant life forces . The whole reason I even mentioned him was for people claiming the planetary energy is useless for someone that eventually becomes universal.
2. Moving on to the real debate:
While I could argue about the nature of multiple worlds or universes, it ultimately doesn’t matter in this context, as different gods may have created different worlds, as interpreted in the source material and they don’t have to be connected.
Let’s focus on the original manga chapter. You can translate for yourself or ask someone to but this is it below.
Omnipotence (全能)
A god is said to have used this power in the process of creating the world. It’s essentially a programming language for creation (創世). Only an omniscient and omnipotent god can wield this power, which materializes everything. An absolute will—this is omnipotence. It is the divine technique among divine techniques.
Now, let’s break this down further:
Everyone use this so u should know this by now. Sekai (world) in the text can refer to “planet,” “universe,” or “society.” However, in this case, it cannot mean just a planet or society for the following reasons:
1. Momoshiki’s Wordings:
The term “the world” includes Momoshiki’s world, which is not Earth. Momoshiki is an extraterrestrial being who came to Earth to harvest a chakra fruit. He didn’t consider Earth his world, which suggests that when he refers to “world,” (universe) he means a broader, all-encompassing world, not just a single planet or society. This is clear when he speaks to Boruto as if their world both his and Boruto was created by a god. So far he should have had access to this information even before coming to earth as since he came to earth and was defeated by Boruto he became stuck in his body.
This honestly should be enough but let’s go further.
2. Interdimensional Scale:
The ability we’re discussing can rewrite memories on an interdimensional scale, affecting beings beyond the main universe. This points to a scope far beyond a single planet or society in terms of range.
3. Reality-Rewriting
The power is described as a “programming language,” which has already been acknowledged as capable of reality warping , as accepted by the wiki.
4. Peerless Existence:
We have examples like Kaguya, who, despite being downplayed, was at least capable of creating and destroying a 4B constructs over time. The energy she outputs per second with the ETSO places her at least at (5-A). Shibai, having ascended far beyond the Kaguya that absorbed the IT charkra ( I mean she has not ascended yet lol), would naturally be on a different scale altogether . When Momoshiki refers to omnipotence, he notes that it’s a power only an all-knowing, all-powerful god can wield—far beyond someone like Kaguya, whom he saw as inferior to himself. Kaguya would not be able handle this power, in fact no otutsuki can truly wield it like a god hence this statement “it’s a power only an all-knowing, all-powerful god can wield” by extension, Omnipotence surpasses even the Expansive Truth-Seeking Orb (ETSO), making it the most powerful shinjutsu of all shinjustu (jutsu).
In conclusion, there’s no reason for the Otsutsuki to continuously absorb planetary energy if their end goal were limited to a single planet. Their goal transcends planetary matters, shibai the peerless existence we’ve seen so far, has nigh-omniscience, being able to see all possible futures, pasts, and presents. The true goal of the Otsutsuki goes beyond mere planetary domination lol they literally discard the dried up planet when they are done. They seek something far greater—control over reality itself. Omnipotence the ultimate power, capable of shaping and programming the very fabric of existence.
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Energy that ETSO outputs per second (though downplayed)
491 ronnaton can create about 28 dwarf stars per seconds
3. Finally the reason I stopped arguing for uzuhiko was because I know nothing I say will change the mods minds . I prefer not to waste my energy. If you believe Arc and hades won, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
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