Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[Samlex1234]

The 5-B one?

Yep

 

[karo_senpaii]

I think it's kind of vague. It depends on multiple things
1. Is BSM Naruto close to SPSM Naruto?
2. Is Naruto being in BSM simply due to the animators not knowing SPSM at the time?
3. Even if so, did the writers account for that by writing BSM Naruto as the same strength as SPSM Naruto or just make do?
4. Is Naruto missing half of Kurama a big deal?

I'm not sure how this changes the point of contention?

I was simply inferring that karma causing the reaction for > jigen ≠ karma must be active to be > jigen.
That's why I used boruto and kawaki. Karma changinf their body does not mean that they need karma active to reach certain levels

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yep

Slayer made the debunk thread for that. Ummmmmmmm maybe there’s a way to search threads made by slayer or message his wall asking for it.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

My issue still remains the same.
I base<jigen and wK> jigen. Then why tell amado , someone he hates to seal his power and be the only one to be able to rescind it. He's basically given someone that's not an otsusuki power over him. That's not code like at all. Code would only do something like that if there was no other option. But going by base code<jigen then there is a very simple and clear option. Just don't use wK and you're always below jigen. Heck code actually hates the fact that he has it so it would be pretty good for him.

But then he's still effectively above Jigen in reality. A self imposed limit is much different than an actual limit you can't control, which gives Jigen's position that much more solidity.

Also do you believe a fresh code out of ritual code activate karma so as for them to know his capabilities while it is active? Kawaki went through hell to be able to use it. Boruto needed kawaki to use his at first.

We don't know, that's the issue. Even if he didn't, it could be that Code surpassed Jigen when he activated Karma later. Too much ambiguity.

 

[Samlex1234]

Slayer made the debunk thread for that. Ummmmmmmm maybe there’s a way to search threads made by slayer or message his wall asking for it.

Please what was the main argument?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Please what was the main argument?

I’m about to play some DnD ask me tomorrow cuz I don’t remember off the dome

 

[Kayzz]

Was mad that Himawari performed better than V1 Kawaki. Now we know it's Amado's doing.

 

[karo_senpaii]

But then he's still effectively above Jigen in reality. A self imposed limit is much different than an actual limit you can't control, which gives Jigen's position that much more solidity.

We don't know, that's the issue. Even if he didn't, it could be that Code surpassed Jigen when he activated Karma later. Too much ambiguity.

1. The self imposed limit involves him submitting his powers to the control of someone who isn't an otsusuki and who he hates. The other is just self control. There is a big difference.
2. From the way amado spoke it seemed to be something he discovered when the ritual took place

 

[Kayzz]

1. Please drop the scan for your statement
2. Again if WK was the main reason why would code let anyone who was not an otsusuki to limit his power let alone someone he hates like amado? It makes no sense. If WK makes him surpass jigen then simply don't activate WK. Problems solved.

3. Yeah this is flat out wrong. When talking about cyborgs who surpass jigen amado statement prior was talking about combat ability. It definitely amped all of them physically. Tak hashirama cells for example. They amp you physically immediately you awaken to be able to use wood release. When Obito went on rage his physical strength went up exponentially. It's the same thing.
Please never confuse ada not being skilled and not liking violence to being weak..she surpasses jigen, her Shinjutsu jigen is completely immune to it . The only way to surpass jigen is by combat. Daemon strength being Shinjutsu is just headcanon so I'd just ignore it.

1. Minatosparkle post.

2. It was because of Jigen not taking chances. It doesn't matter what Code felt. If Isshiki saw him as a potential threat, he would be sealed.

3. Well even if we accept it did amp their strength, there's no way to assume it amped Code's base strength greater than Jigen's. This is just facts. Point is White Karma was what made the difference - the reaction.

 

[karo_senpaii]

1. Minatosparkle post.

2. It was because of Jigen not taking chances. It doesn't matter what Code felt. If Isshiki saw him as a potential threat, he would be sealed.

3. Well even if we accept it did amp their strength, there's no way to assume it amped Code's base strength greater than Jigen's. This is just facts. Point is White Karma was what made the difference - the reaction.

1. Already answered it.

2. This is wrong. It was made very clear that jigen knew code was a devotee of his and as such could care less if he was stronger and did not dispose him..it was code who on his own decide to put limiters on himself

3. I just explained. Karma causing reaction. To change biology ≠ karma needing to be activated to show that change. By default a biological change happens at all layers. Base or wk is irrelevant

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Was mad that Himawari performed better than V1 Kawaki. Now we know it's Amado's doing.

Actually… It may imply Kawaki = Code. According to Boruto, Amado limited Kawaki’s strength only to be enough to fight Code level Threats.

So V2 Kawaki “may” actually rival Code.

Unless I misunderstood.

 

[Kayzz]

1. The self imposed limit involves him submitting his powers to the control of someone who isn't an otsusuki and who he hates. The other is just self control. There is a big difference.
2. From the way amado spoke it seemed to be something he discovered when the ritual took place

The hate on Amado started after his defection though.

 

[karo_senpaii]

The hate on Amado started after his defection though.

Did it? Maybe I'm not remembering right. Either way submitting yourself to the hands of a non otsusuki when there is an easier opportunity is just not code like

 

[Kayzz]

1. Already answered it.

2. This is wrong. It was made very clear that jigen knew code was a devotee of his and as such could care less if he was stronger and did not dispose him..it was code who on his own decide to put limiters on himself

3. I just explained. Karma causing reaction. To change biology ≠ karma needing to be activated to show that change. By default a biological change happens at all layers. Base or wk is irrelevant

1. okay

2. No. That's an assumption. It's likely because of the limiters that Jigen saw how devoted Code was, and not before.

3. Yes a biological change occurs even in Base, but it would be an assumption to state the activation of WK is unnecessary to empowering the base. That would be too different from what has already been established

 

[Kayzz]

And karma is Isshiki's raw power. The karma serves to augment the vessel closer to the parent Otsutsuki's power. If the vessel is already stronger than the Otsutsuki, then karma's raw power is irrelevant to the vessel.

For Unlimited Base Code to consider the WK irrelevant is to consider Isshiki's raw power irrelevant. That can't be possible because Isshiki's raw power is still greater than Code's.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

1. The self imposed limit involves him submitting his powers to the control of someone who isn't an otsusuki and who he hates. The other is just self control. There is a big difference.

I don't see why him hating Amado is such a big deal in this situation. Also, he theoretically wanted to remain in his limited state forever if Jigen remained alive, so submitting his powers to anyone's control shouldn't have been an issue.

2. From the way amado spoke it seemed to be something he discovered when the ritual took place

Could just be that the reaction caused his power to eventually surpass Jigen. I don't disagree with him surpassing Jigen initially though. He could've been very quick to unlock the Karma.

 

[karo_senpaii]

And karma is Isshiki's raw power. The karma serves to augment the vessel to reach the parent Otsutsuki's power. If the vessel is already stronger than the Otsutsuki, then karma's raw power is irrelevant.

For Unlimited Base Code to consider the WK irrelevant is to consider Isshiki's raw power irrelevant. How can Isshiki's raw power be irrelevant to Unlimited Base Code when he is still weaker than Isshiki?

Yeah I'm not claiming this at all

1. okay

2. No. That's an assumption. It's likely because of the limiters that Jigen saw how devoted Code was, and not before.

3. Yes a biological change occurs even in Base, but it would be an assumption to state the activation of WK is unnecessary to empowering the base. That would be too different from what has already been established

2. I didn't make any assumptions. I was told in the manga that jigen had no say in code putting limiters. He did that himself. You're the one making assumptions here. You claim he put the limiters Coz jigen would dispose him of he didn't. The manga tells me he put it himself on his own just to not undermine jigen authority. I'm believing the manga

3. Again did you misread what I typed? I just did not infer this at all. By irrelevant I mean the differentiation between who surpasses jigen between base and karma code is Irrelevant as the reaction occcurs biologically at all layers. If it is only for WK that's not a reaction. That's just a temporary boost

 

[karo_senpaii]

I don't see why him hating Amado is such a big deal in this situation. Also, he theoretically wanted to remain in his limited state forever if Jigen remained alive, so submitting his powers to anyone's control shouldn't have been an issue.

Could just be that the reaction caused his power to eventually surpass Jigen. I don't disagree with him surpassing Jigen initially though. He could've been very quick to unlock the Karma.

1. Code an otsusuki worshiper is submitting authority to a non otsusuki ? With another option in play? You don't see how this?
2. This is actually wrong. He knew ishikki himself would eventually reincarnate in full power in kawaki. This is why amado separates that he revers jigen and worships ishikki. So eventually his powers would have been just fine to use below ishikki

3. I mean eventually seems like a reach tbh. If we just take the statement with the simplest interpretation it's just at the spot of the ritual the reaction changes his biology and he surpasses jigen. That's all

 

[Samlex1234]

I’m about to play some DnD ask me tomorrow cuz I don’t remember off the dome

found it. Arc lemme ask a question.

What power did you think Toneri was referencing when? He mentioned the power that can move the moon. What moon was he talking about? When was the moon moved and who moved it?

Then we saw that Toneri was going to use this same power to destroy the earth by moving the same moon. We accept telekinesis for him here but Hamura the owner of the power, does not scale to it. Something that he did casually with his brother after a long fight?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Um I'm just gonna put this here. He did indeed activate Karma as soon as the reaction took place.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Wait wait wait. If boruto says there is nothing he can do about jura on his own doesn't that make jura relative or greater than uzuhiko?

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Wait wait wait. If boruto says there is nothing he can do about jura on his own doesn't that make jura relative or greater than uzuhiko?

Potentially. Or maybe there isn’t a future where Boruto just doesn’t tag him with it. Base Code was able to react to Boruto and catch his hand without Karma. Jura isn’t even fazed by WK Code’s Combat Speed, so…

 

[ssgengar]

Wait wait wait. If boruto says there is nothing he can do about jura on his own doesn't that make jura relative or greater than uzuhiko?

Maybe he just doesn’t have the time to charge it up enough by himself

 

[Samlex1234]

Maybe he just doesn’t have the time to charge it up enough by himself

Unless it has been nerfed I remember no one can touch Boruto while he is in that state.

 

[NeoKingOfLight]

Speaking of which, based on their interaction, is Base Boruto deemed Equal to Base Code in Physicals?

 

[Samlex1234]

Base boruto is >>> than code
Like V2 jigen >> Naruto + sasuke

 

[Samlex1234]

Guys, let’s reason together . Just like Galactus a cosmic entity from Marvel Comics, who derives his power primarily from consuming the energy of entire planets (bro is easily above universal by the way). Are we really saying that an Otsutsuki like Isshiki, who has consumed countless planetary chakra fruits over thousands of years, is only capable of producing planetary-level energy or capped there?


Consider the nature of these chakra fruits—they contain:
• The power of the Otsutsuki sacrifice.
• The combined energy of an entire planet.

They have repeated this process over millennia, but we’re expected to believe their ultimate limit is still just planetary? Their entire goal is to achieve godhood, a state where they possess:

Omnipotence—the power that can easily write or rewrite worlds (universes).

How long would it take for them to even reach star level, let alone godhood, if their ceiling is planetary ( with at least A thousand planetary fruit/energy)? Lore-wise, this doesn’t add up at all.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Where are y'all reading the English translation?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Nvm I found a site. Man

Spoiler

Code getting embarrassed so badly was so funny Jura really sniped his hand then was like "Go do your job boy." Mamushi was great too. Also loved Boruto and Kawaki finally having a talk.

 

[Gokukid2005]

i wonder how Amado is gonna weasel his way out of this one

 

[Ryzen7900X]

Guys, let’s reason together . Just like Galactus a cosmic entity from Marvel Comics, who derives his power primarily from consuming the energy of entire planets (bro is easily above universal by the way). Are we really saying that an Otsutsuki like Isshiki, who has consumed countless planetary chakra fruits over thousands of years, is only capable of producing planetary-level energy or capped there?

Galactus should NEVER be in the same analogy as the otsutsuki:

Omnipotence—the power that can easily write or rewrite worlds (universes).

doesn't rewrite any universe

How long would it take for them to even reach star level, let alone godhood, if their ceiling is planetary ( with at least A thousand planetary fruit/energy)? Lore-wise, this doesn’t add up at all.

the same lore that hardcapped the verse to 5-B with uzuhiko?

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Galactus should NEVER be in the same analogy as the otsutsuki:

That ain't Galactus.

the same lore that hardcapped the verse to 5-B with uzuhiko?

Are people really taking Boruto's "limitless" statement literally?

 

[Samlex1234]

Galactus should NEVER be in the same analogy as the otsutsuki:

doesn't rewrite any universe

the same lore that hardcapped the verse to 5-B with uzuhiko?

1.?? Please read again

2.


Well it created the current world as it is.

3. Uzuhiko does not cap the verse. In fact it should not. The lore does not Support it neither does the evidence presented.

 

[Samlex1234]

Are people really taking Boruto's "limitless" statement literally?

You believe uzuhiko caps the verse?

 

[JohnHendrix212]

You believe uzuhiko caps the verse?

Not in the way that people seem to think. I don't think Boruto's "limitless" statement should be paired with Uzuhiko's current rating to cap the verse to 5-B.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

That ain't Galactus.

i know that's ultron lmao. i posted it just to show what massive "eating" feats actually look like, because galactus >>>>> ultron

Are people really taking Boruto's "limitless" statement literally?

dont look at me, it was even accepted on this site.

 

[Ryzen7900X]

1.?? Please read again

I did. please use better analogies that don't insta-debunk your own argument next time.

2.


Well it created the current world as it is.

doesn't say universe anywhere, so not sure why you equivocate the word "worlds" with "universes", they are DIFFERENT things, and the naruto franchise has made the distinction clear on multiple occasions. furthermore, it says it created "worlds", however as far as we know there no "multiple universes" in the cosmology.

3. Uzuhiko does not cap the verse. In fact it should not. The lore does not Support it neither does the evidence presented.

it's a soft cap, like it or not. were it really as wrong as you think it is, it wouldn't have been accepted. while powerscaling has a subjective component i don't know why you act like your way of scaling is the only correct way.

no wonder you lost to Arc and Hades badly

 

[Ghostimuscrime]

you do realize otsutsuki devour life in a planet rather than just planets

thought we all agreed that was a terrible cap for the verse

 

[Samlex1234]

Not in the way that people seem to think. I don't think Boruto's "limitless" statement should be paired with Uzuhiko's current rating to cap the verse to 5-B.

For me I just interpret that part as It’s powered by the planet’s rotation and other kinetic energies, which the planet continuously generates. As a result, the longer he charges it, the more powerful it becomes.