MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
- 4,001
Which?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
Iirc, Black Myth Wukong also suffered some type of mistranslations that ended up having weird implications. I am not too familiar with what is happening tho.
- 3,234
- 1,970
If you want to call out Kishi just point out sexy jutsu.
- 520
- 246
yh pretty much
found out they also use the word meaning hot or cool in everyday contexts
people be losing their minds over nothing
anything to hate on the naruto franchise
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
Naruto only fans vs Boruto fans is gonna be so epic from now on.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
- 4,001
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
I meant that
- 29
- 16
In my opinion, Madara might have attempted to use Genjutsu on Hashirama but failed. I have a theory that Hashirama should be resistant to Genjutsu or perhaps able to negate it. There are two reasons for this: first, he is a sensory-type Shinobi, and second, Hashirama is a Sage (who masters natural energy).
We all know that Hashirama is a skilled sensory-type Shinobi, even outside of Sage Mode. He was able to sense Madara’s presence after hearing just a faint sound, while Tobirama, who is also skilled in sensory techniques, did not sense him.
[ https://gyazo.com/6b2715d2d95ad14343902b230ad5444c ]
[ https://gyazo.com/81bb86f12786bdebc3b3d724b5865cee ]
Hashirama was also able to sense the malevolent presence of Black Zetsu in the Valley of the End, which was later confirmed by Black Zetsu itself.
[ https://gyazo.com/8e381ea62754c1c3496cc41fe48f474f ]
And it should be noted that Black Zetsu was skilled enough to hide from Madara for decades before making Madara believe that it was created as an embodiment of Madara’s desires.
The reason I bring this up is because innate sensory abilities make it much harder to be affected by Genjutsu, as they can sense it.
[ https://gyazo.com/f13eb4b4f3460923eabcdc0d9a5c0deb ]
For example, Karin can evaluate her own chakra and that of others to determine if anyone is under the influence of Sharingan Genjutsu. Therefore, I believe that even outside of Sage Mode, Hashirama would be a difficult target for Genjutsu.
Additionally, Hashirama himself was quite adept at using Genjutsu.
[ https://gyazo.com/2bac4fc6c6be5083c2ac644afcb13a4b ]
[ https://gyazo.com/0c77672a3cc82d9cddd665fad1ccff6b ]
[ https://gyazo.com/b56c84200a2262da692074e60ec4e3e2 ]
Given his excellent chakra control, it would be very challenging to trap Hashirama in an illusion.
However, since this is Hashirama’s Edo Tensei version by Orochimaru, I’m still uncertain whether these techniques are from Hashirama himself or if there was some intervention by Orochimaru.
So we can assume that Madara likely tried to use Genjutsu on Hashirama during their fight. We can also assume that Hashirama managed to break free from the Genjutsu and continued to overpower Madara during the battle. But for now, we still don’t have enough evidence, so this is just my opinion.
We all know that Hashirama is a skilled sensory-type Shinobi, even outside of Sage Mode. He was able to sense Madara’s presence after hearing just a faint sound, while Tobirama, who is also skilled in sensory techniques, did not sense him.
[ https://gyazo.com/6b2715d2d95ad14343902b230ad5444c ]
[ https://gyazo.com/81bb86f12786bdebc3b3d724b5865cee ]
Hashirama was also able to sense the malevolent presence of Black Zetsu in the Valley of the End, which was later confirmed by Black Zetsu itself.
[ https://gyazo.com/8e381ea62754c1c3496cc41fe48f474f ]
And it should be noted that Black Zetsu was skilled enough to hide from Madara for decades before making Madara believe that it was created as an embodiment of Madara’s desires.
The reason I bring this up is because innate sensory abilities make it much harder to be affected by Genjutsu, as they can sense it.
[ https://gyazo.com/f13eb4b4f3460923eabcdc0d9a5c0deb ]
For example, Karin can evaluate her own chakra and that of others to determine if anyone is under the influence of Sharingan Genjutsu. Therefore, I believe that even outside of Sage Mode, Hashirama would be a difficult target for Genjutsu.
Additionally, Hashirama himself was quite adept at using Genjutsu.
[ https://gyazo.com/2bac4fc6c6be5083c2ac644afcb13a4b ]
[ https://gyazo.com/0c77672a3cc82d9cddd665fad1ccff6b ]
[ https://gyazo.com/b56c84200a2262da692074e60ec4e3e2 ]
Given his excellent chakra control, it would be very challenging to trap Hashirama in an illusion.
However, since this is Hashirama’s Edo Tensei version by Orochimaru, I’m still uncertain whether these techniques are from Hashirama himself or if there was some intervention by Orochimaru.
So we can assume that Madara likely tried to use Genjutsu on Hashirama during their fight. We can also assume that Hashirama managed to break free from the Genjutsu and continued to overpower Madara during the battle. But for now, we still don’t have enough evidence, so this is just my opinion.
- 29
- 16
Sorry if my argument is a little messy, I don't know how to make text into a link
- 11,713
- 16,102
Yes, Sparkle, you need literal evidence to support a claim. Wild, I know.
Again, where in these scans is he casting a genjutsu and Hashirama is breaking out of it using the standard genjutsu breaking method the DB/manga claimed doesn't work? Also, like half of these are Edo Rinnegan Madara, who can't cast ocular genjutsu without devolving his eyes into a Sharingan first.
I'm not implying it here, but it is possible given that he can casually shrug off the control of Edo Tensei. I know it's not the same thing, but it could be that Hashirama can just chad his way through mind control. That being said, though, that's irrelevant to what I'm arguing. Which, to be clear, is that the standard genjutsu breaking method doesn't work against ocular genjutsu.
You've provided no real proof for me to consider two canonical statements questionable. You saying so is not enough, I'm afraid.
How about the two literal statements saying so?
Uhuh, and it isn't always true given the fact that others can break you out of it. Like, we are given the general rule (if you're alone, you're screwed), and its exception (just don't be alone lmao).
Those "exceptions" are just you inserting your headcanon into things. We are given the rules and their exceptions already as I said before.
Yeah, after training for his left eye to break out of that specific genjutsu for years lol.
Sure, but he didn't resist being placed under the GJ, nor did he really break free. He was still helpless against Itachi's assault in the physical world. So I don't see how this really disproves the rule of "if you fall for a Sharingan GJ, you're screwed". Orochimaru was literally a textbook example of that, as he was destroyed and dismembered after falling for a standard GJ.
Not sure this is the same thing because both of them were in a mental/spiritual plane with their souls clashing for dominance. And considering what happened to Orochimaru after the panels you posted.......Uh, yeah, I don't think it's a particularly great example.
She didn't break Itachi's genjutsu. She broke her own genjutsu reflected back at her by Itachi's technique.
They're still fully functional Sharingan. So even if he falls prey to the genjutsu through his normal eye, the Sharingans can break him out, which they did.
Last edited:
- 520
- 246
so much mental gymnastics for two itachi victims
- 15,938
- 11,202
- 1,649
- 1,002
Politics, am I right?
- 1,649
- 1,002
Do “Grapple” attacks count towards Striking or Lifting?
- 11,713
- 16,102
Depends, but usually Lifting Strength.
- 1,649
- 1,002
Which would you say this falls under then?
- 11,713
- 16,102
I would say LS because Mitsuki's just restricting the other guy's movements like a python would. He's holding him in place using grappling technique and the strength of his lengthy appendages
- 1,649
- 1,002
Considering the fact he hurt Suigetsu though, would that be a AP rating via Construction? Or is it understood that LS could still be used to hurt an opponent without adding that specifically?
- 11,713
- 16,102
Yeah, you can hurt someone via crushing them or applying pressure upon them. It's still LS.
That's why having a LS advantage can be pretty nasty in VS threads. If someone has a massive LS advantage, them getting ahold of their opponent could be an instant gg.
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
- 10,765
- 16,030
Kaguya in Naruto has L2C part 2
Argument for Low 2-C Classification Creation of a New Space-Time: Manga Statement: The manga states: "It's the start of a new time-space. And you all will become its sacrifices" indicating that the existing space-time continuum will be completely erased and replaced with a new one. Databook...
- 10,765
- 16,030
Me seeing Nami_Kami or originally HereToFixYourSite getting spanked in the thread
- 731
- 1,077
I really appreciate the stuff Kodachi and Kishimoto cooked up
- 1,056
- 617
His arguments were not bad. He argued space and Time are intertwined in the sense that erasing a whole dimension and restarting another one implies the destruction of the old, suggesting that time within that space is also restarting. Basically, the creation of a new space especially if it’s a complete transformation or a reset might bring with it a new timeline or era, essentially resetting or restarting time within that particular context.
Me seeing Nami_Kami or originally HereToFixYourSite getting spanked in the thread
“The start of a new space”
A new beginning, that new beginning is the introduction of a new Timeline.
Imagine it this way
If I say oh the start of a new space in this our current universe, it implies that everything that came by big bang is gone. Essentially another Big-Bang
Though this wiki might treat things differently.
Last edited:
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
- 4,001
No, reasoning based on other factors is sufficient if strong enough
You're making a separate argument now, that was my response to you saying Hashirama would know to not look an Uchiha in the eyes. It's clear that Hashirama doesn't particularly care about looking Madara in the eye, so he doesn't fear genjutsu for one reason or another.
And as for Edo Madara, he's not a Rinnegan expert, he wouldn't just know that the Rinnegan can't cast genjutsu. All he sees is that Madara has a different dojutsu. But even if he assumed Madara can't cast genjutsu like that and let his guard down, Madara had the opportunity to instantly switch back and cast genjutsu. Also Madara had his right Sharingan activated in the second half of their cqc battle anyways.
So you don't disagree with people having genjutsu resistance even without a dojutsu?
Something being canonical doesn't automatically make it true. There are plenty of statements that are canon but aren't true like Fukasaku saying no one could possibly defeat Pain without full knowledge or the 3rd databook claiming Tobi is Madara. Not saying that statements are invalid in general, just that they're not the be all end all (even with an "omniscient" narrator like with the databook), and that consistency matters more.
One comes from a character with limited knowledge, meaning it doesn't definitely prove anything, and I've already talked about why the databook statement doesn't mean it's impossible to break out.How about the two literal statements saying so?
No, that's literally the general rule mentioned. It states that two on one is the general rule, meaning that even when you don't have a partner it's not always the case that you can't break out.
二対一で挑むのが原則。一人が術に堕ちたら、仲間が術者を攻撃し解く。
The principle/general rule is to challenge with two against one. If one person falls into the technique, the companion attacks the caster to break it.
That's...not the defeater you're presenting it as. You were originally arguing that people without dojutsu can't break out of genjutsu alone. Even if it took Deidara lots of training, the fact that he managed to do it without any special enhancements means you can do it alone, it's just a lot more difficult than breaking out of normal genjutsu, which I never disagreed with.
Also I hate to always play the raws game but VIZ does make a lotta changes, and in this case Deidara actually implied he trained to resist genjutsu in general, not only the one Itachi used on him.
イタチとやり合った日からオレの左目は対写輪眼用として鍛えてたのさ
幻術を解く訓練を怠るワケねーだろ!!
Since the day I fought Itachi, I’ve been training my left eye specifically to counter the Sharingan. There’s no way I’d neglect training to break genjutsu!!
He was moving his arms and Itachi interrupted him by cutting his hand before he could do anything. Might've even been moving to do the Kai sign, but even if it was just a regular ninjutsu to try attacking Itachi in the real world, that still means Sharingan genjutsu doesn't always fully put you out of commission.
Because Itachi was stronger than him. Orochimaru even praises the strength of Itachi's eyes for being able to bind him (despite being one of the most knowledgeable people in the verse who absolutely would know the rule of running when you face the Sharingan from fighting alongside Sharingan users through 1 or 2 Great Wars).
It's an unconventional situation sure, but it literally is the same technique; if Sharingan genjutsu was so all-powerful, even in a spiritual plane it wouldn't make sense for Orochimaru to break out, regardless of him later getting overtaken.
It is a reflection of her own technique sure, but it's casted with his Sharingan, thus still making it an ocular genjutsu by definition. The databook even specifies that it's a similar technique meaning it's not literally the same. The distinction being the method by which it's cast would explain that.
Sasuke's concern was whether he could put Danzo in a genjutsu in the first place even if not for long. The plan was for Danzo to not even realize he was under genjutsu after all.
- 1,649
- 1,002
Again, I ask… does the ability to absorb Nature Energy also cut out the need for the 2 person rules? One wouldn’t necessarily “need” to go into SM and a little NE could just be that outside agitator.
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
- 4,001
I'd probably agree but that's if they can gather nature energy while being trapped in a genjutsu
- 1,649
- 1,002
I hope they hive SM Mitsuki some cool shit. Snake Lightning / summons are getting old, fr. I want to see him using Orochimaru Style Regeneration… Some never before shown jutsu… creative SM shit.
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
Claiming that a villain requires a sad backstory or motivation to be considered good is stupid in the first place. Plenty of complex stories can be made on pure psychopaths. Tbf Boruto doesn't have many complex villains in the first place, but I'm saying it can be done.
Also, having villains with sob stories doesn't even have the intended effect on the audience. These villains are written for the audience to understand cause and effect. But most people just end up justifying these villains. "X character was right".
Also, having villains with sob stories doesn't even have the intended effect on the audience. These villains are written for the audience to understand cause and effect. But most people just end up justifying these villains. "X character was right".
- 3,234
- 1,970
Isshiki >>> Madara
HelloThere1089
He/Him- 3,287
- 4,018
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
- 4,001
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
- 4,001
How's your mom going arc
MinatoSparkle
He/Him- 7,190
- 4,001
Evades the question
- 1,367
- 1,169
You said most, which ones do you like or see potential in
- 18,872
- 27,547
Isshiki and Jura
You’re almost as good at evading the question as staff are at evading your CRTs
