Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[UchihaSlayer96]

Muscle strength is the correlation.

You don't get it, there are different types of "muscle strength", and each is trained differently.
A power lifter trains much differently to a track runner. Both train differently to an mma fighter, who in turn trains differently to a boxer.
Of course there's some overlap, and the range for human strength and speed is pretty limited in scope anyway. But the fact that such differences exist over such a small range proves my point. It's far more dramatic when you're dealing with massively superhuman characters.

The relevance is that if Enma has the strength to temporarily overpower Kurama,

Again, via LS.

he should likely be able to damage a far weaker being, Gyuki.

Being able to push A doesn't mean you can damage B by default, even if B is weaker than A. You can definitely push the shit out of B, though.

Anyways, it's not like this is the only scaling Enma has. He was also reputed to be the strongest summoning, making him Bijuu level scaling to the Sannin summons.

That's fine, but not really what we were arguing. I didn't say Enma was or wasn't Bijū level. I just disagree with the Kurama thing.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

But it's more likely than them being 100% unrelated

Ya sure just saying DB isn't a good example for why it's not good in Naruto. There's probably examples in Naruto that could be used to support the point.

If you're using LS ~ AP as a method to scale a character's AP, you'll need far better than "they're likely/maybe correlated" to support that

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Of course there's some overlap

This is my point. I'm aware they're not 1:1, my only point is that there's at least minor correlation.

Again, via LS.

Being able to push A doesn't mean you can damage B by default, even if B is weaker than A. You can definitely push the shit out of B, though.

Even just pushing the shit out of B could damage him, like it did here.

https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/45e77c5dcee098593280272f54d17876/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-60---p039-%5BaKraa%5D.pnghttps://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/45e77c5dcee098593280272f54d17876/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-60---p040-%5BaKraa%5D.pnghttps://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/9d8aec2993d9d41bc59c858e86cc1f15/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-60---p045-%5BaKraa%5D.png

That's fine, but not really what we were arguing. I didn't say Enma was or wasn't Bijū level. I just disagree with the Kurama thing.

I'm just arguing that Hiruzen can damage Gyuki, one way or another.

If you're using LS ~ AP as a method to scale a character's AP, you'll need far better than "they're likely/maybe correlated" to support that

At the very least, it can be used as minor support to Enma's Bijuu level scaling.

 

[SuperStar]

Goku struggles lifting 10s to 100s of tons despite having universal power, DB characters have consistently ASS LS compared to their AP

ahh, so Deku bench presses the verse

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

This is my point. I'm aware they're not 1:1, my only point is that there's at least minor correlation.

I didn't even use the word correlation
And you pretty much missed my entire point. I meant there's some overlap in the strength and training methods because we as humans function within a pretty limited range of strength and body functions, a limitation not shared by most superhuman fictional characters.
And even with the minor overlap, athletes training for different sports yield very different results, performance wise.

Even just pushing the shit out of B could damage him, like it did here.

https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/45e77c5dcee098593280272f54d17876/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-60---p039-%5BaKraa%5D.pnghttps://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/45e77c5dcee098593280272f54d17876/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-60---p040-%5BaKraa%5D.pnghttps://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/9d8aec2993d9d41bc59c858e86cc1f15/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-60---p045-%5BaKraa%5D.png

This is a throw, not a push. Throwing has different mechanics to pushing. It also helps that Gyūki was actually shown to be hurt by said throw here. If someone threw you and it didn't hurt at all, then it wouldn't mean a whole lot either.

I'm just arguing that Hiruzen can damage Gyuki, one way or another.

Not my debate, so I won't really get into it.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I didn't even use the word correlation
And you pretty much missed my entire point. I meant there's some overlap in the strength and training methods because we as humans function within a pretty limited range of strength and body functions, a limitation not shared by most superhuman fictional characters.

I mean, Naruto characters do also have overlap in strength and training methods so...

And even with the minor overlap, athletes training for different sports yield very different results, performance wise.

This is a throw, not a push. Throwing has different mechanics to pushing. It also helps that Gyūki was actually shown to be hurt by said throw here. If someone threw you and it didn't hurt at all, then it wouldn't mean a whole lot either.

In the third panel he was pushed, but in the others, Son Goku just roared and Gyuki and Naruto fell down and were hurt.

Not my debate, so I won't really get into it.

mk

 

[BlackeJan]

Goku is rolling in his several graves right now

U need to chill

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Naw KT pop off

 

[Ourosboros]

Hey guys, would any of you be interested in contributing to this Atomic Samurai vs Mifune thread? Right now there's only one Naruto fan around and we'd like some more knowledgeable people to discuss Mifune's abilitie before we come to a definitive conclusion of any kind.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Speaking of Minato vs Hashirama

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Lmao, something I should've realized a long time ago. The wiki accepts 7th Gate Guy as being High 7-A+, and Kakashi knows Guy better than anyone else, yet said:

And it's stated by WoG too.

I would make a CRT about it, but I wanna downgrade a bunch of pre-WA characters including Guy anyways so oh well.

 

[KingTempest]

lol

 

[MinatoSparkle]

lol

To the fact that it was overlooked or that last sentence?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I would make a CRT about it, but I wanna downgrade a bunch of pre-WA characters including Guy anyways so oh well.

Dunno what that's all about, but I doubt it would really affect Guy since all of his High 7-A ratings come from WA feats.

To the fact that it was overlooked or that last sentence?

Knowing Tempest, probably both lol.

 

[KingTempest]

Scaling any form of Naruto pre war to 7th Gate Guy is hilarious

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Dunno what that's all about, but I doubt it would really affect Guy since all of his High 7-A ratings come from WA feats.

It's about that CRT I started months ago (https://vsbattles.com/threads/massi...n-centered-around-the-sannins-scaling.127229/) but put a pause on since I know the Kirin calc is gonna be a thing relatively soon which would make a lot of things in the CRT changed a bit. And the fact that his High 7-A ratings come from WA feats is precisely my point. Minato scaling above Pre-WA 7GG doesn't make him High 7-A+, even though that is true based on the current wiki stats for Guy.

Scaling any form of Naruto pre war to 7th Gate Guy is hilarious

Wat? That wasn't my point. I was saying Minato>7th Gate Guy. But anyways, SM Naruto would dunk on Early Shippuden 7th Gate Guy, as he's no stronger than Kakashi, who's obviously weaker than SM Naruto.

 

[KingTempest]

SM Naruto's not doing anything to 7th Gate Guy

 

[MinatoSparkle]

SM Naruto's not doing anything to 7th Gate Guy

Not doing anything to WAR ARC 7th Gate Guy.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Scaling any form of Naruto pre war to 7th Gate Guy is hilarious

Kakashi implied that Guy didn't surpass him until he activated the 8th Gate, so at least Kakashi ~ 7th Gate Guy.
Post-Immortal arc/Pain arc base Naruto ~> Kakashi.
Sage Mode Nard ~ Pain > Kakashi.
SM Nard > base Nard ~> 7th Gate Guy.
Consistent with Katsuyu asking Team Guy to stay out of Naruto's way to not hold him back.
You're welcome, nerd.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Kakashi implied that Guy didn't surpass him until he activated the 8th Gate, so at least Kakashi ~ 7th Gate Guy.
Post-Immortal arc/Pain arc base Naruto ~> Kakashi.
Sage Mode Nard ~ Pain > Kakashi.
SM Nard > base Nard ~> 7th Gate Guy.
Consistent with Katsuyu asking Team Guy to stay out of Naruto's way to not hold him back.
You're welcome, nerd.

Idk why that's crossed out most of that is right

 

[KingTempest]

Not doing anything to WAR ARC 7th Gate Guy.

Now just split up his keys for no reason

Kakashi implied that Guy didn't surpass him until he activated the 8th Gate, so at least Kakashi ~ 7th Gate Guy.

Surpass can mean several different things. Heck, Sasuke called base Guy stronger than Kakashi, so what does that mean.

Post-Immortal arc/Pain arc base Naruto ~> Kakashi.
Sage Mode Nard ~ Pain > Kakashi.
SM Nard > base Nard ~> 7th Gate Guy.

lol

Consistent with Katsuyu asking Team Guy to stay out of Naruto's way to not hold him back.

Team Guy wasn't even in the village when they said this

You're welcome, nerd.

 

[KingTempest]

I'm not even here to argue or debate I'm here to laugh at yall

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Surpass can mean several different things. Heck, Sasuke called base Guy stronger than Kakashi, so what does that mean.

lol

Team Guy wasn't even in the village when they said this

You not understanding that strikethroughs signify that "hey, this is a joke" will never cease to amaze me lol

 

[KingTempest]

You not understanding that strikethroughs signify that "hey, this is a joke" will never cease to amaze me lol

you not understanding that I will never understand anything will never cease to amaze me

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

you not understanding that I will never understand anything will never cease to amaze me

Interesting. I have a counter offer:

 

[KingTempest]

Interesting. I have a counter offer:

Nice counter offer, I accept

 

[Nierre]

?????

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Now just split up his keys for no reason

Yup, no reason, not like his base got so much stronger to the point that he could keep up with MKCM Naruto and Rinnegan Obito or anything, nothing like that.

 

[KingTempest]

Lol, feats we don't even consider valid on the wiki, since when I tried that "Guy was too inconsistent", now it's a whole new key

Maybe Guy was always that strong hmm?

 

[Nierre]

What are you attempting exactly? And why isn't it valid?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Lol, feats we don't even consider valid on the wiki, since when I tried that "Guy was too inconsistent", now it's a whole new key

Guy is only rlly inconsistent if ppl don't think about characters getting stronger. I talked about Guy's gradual progression throughout the series in an answer and he's more consistent than ppl think. https://www.quora.com/How-strong-is-Might-Guy-without-the-8th-Gate

Maybe Guy was always that strong hmm?

Absolutely not. 30% Kisame is leagues weaker than Rinnegan Obito, yet he pressed Base Guy harder than him.

 

[KingTempest]

Guy is only rlly inconsistent if ppl don't think about characters getting stronger. I talked about Guy's gradual progression throughout the series in an answer and he's more consistent than ppl think. https://www.quora.com/How-strong-is-Might-Guy-without-the-8th-Gate

that's nice

Absolutely not. 30% Kisame is leagues weaker than Rinnegan Obito

Based on?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Based on?

Cause he's stronger than MKCM Naruto.
https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/6098ac6cb680e32139a8fc635bfadcb1/v62-(128).png
A weaker KCM Naruto ****** 100% WA Kisame.
https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/097159d149aa9063595dc2aadfa62d58/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-54---p016-%5BaKraa%5D%5BTSed%5D.png
https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/097159d149aa9063595dc2aadfa62d58/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-54---p017-%5BaKraa%5D%5BTSed%5D.png

 

[KingTempest]

That was a dehydrated Kisame who was far weaker than any version of Kisame ever.

And I like how now we're just splitting up everybody as "Early Shippuden | WA" as if most of these guys aren't the exact same from the days prior

 

[MinatoSparkle]

That was a dehydrated Kisame who was far weaker than any version of Kisame ever.

And I like how now we're just splitting up everybody as "Early Shippuden | WA" as if most of these guys aren't the exact same from the days prior

He was partially fused with Samehada though. And even if you don't use that, there's also the fact that KCM Naruto scales to 3T Edo Itachi, and even 3T Sick Itachi could match 100% Kisame while arguably holding back.

They rlly aren't. Naruto was 15 at the start of Shippuden and 17 by the end of it. That's not a few days. You mean from the FKS to the WA, big difference. But even then, most characters did showcase large growth, which is due to the fact that fighting amps characters over short periods more than anything else.

By your logic, we might as well make P2 Kakashi one key and make Hidan and Kakuzu KCM Naruto level scaling to Kakashi. Or make Base Naruto Jiraiya level+ throughout the series since his SM training was only a few days.

 

[KingTempest]

Spoiler

He was partially fused with Samehada though.

No he wasn't, he was just inside of the sword. He wasn't fused.

And even if you don't use that, there's also the fact that KCM Naruto scales to 3T Edo Itachi, and even 3T Sick Itachi could match 100% Kisame while arguably holding back.

Huge scaling inconsistencies then, since Kisame was a match for an amped Killer B, who is relative to the guys you just named.

They rlly aren't. Naruto was 15 at the start of Shippuden and 17 by the end of it. That's not a few days.

No, because the series is inconsistent as hell with the dates and ages.

BOS to Pain arc was less than a month long via the incanon days of events. Pain Arc and FKS all takes place in the span of like 2-3 days, the War is 3 days later and it took place for 2 days.

The events of Naruto spanned for like a month

But even then, most characters did showcase large growth, which is due to the fact that fighting amps characters over short periods more than anything else.

You took that statement way too literal. These guys don't have zenkais

By your logic, we might as well make P2 Kakashi one key and make Hidan and Kakuzu KCM Naruto level scaling to Kakashi. Or make Base Naruto Jiraiya level+ throughout the series since his SM training was only a few days.

War Arc Kakashi was struggling with Zabuza who his pre timeskip self matched.

I have no genuine argument, I just see a lack of good proof for half the stuff being insinuated

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Spoiler

No he wasn't, he was just inside of the sword. He wasn't fused.

Then why was his body so different from usual? His shoulders had Samehada spikes and he had weird horn things.
https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/097159d149aa9063595dc2aadfa62d58/NARUTO%E2%80%94%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AB%E3%83%88%E2%80%94-%E3%82%AB%E3%83%A9%E3%83%BC%E7%89%88-54---p014-%5BaKraa%5D%5BTSed%5D.png

Huge scaling inconsistencies then, since Kisame was a match for an amped Killer B, who is relative to the guys you just named.

Because Bee also got stronger in the WA. Like I said, this happened to a TON of characters. Most in fact.

No, because the series is inconsistent as hell with the dates and ages.

BOS to Pain arc was less than a month long via the incanon days of events.

But based on known ages of characters, it was much longer.

Pain Arc and FKS all takes place in the span of like 2-3 days, the War is 3 days later and it took place for 2 days.

The events of Naruto spanned for like a month

You took that statement way too literal. These guys don't have zenkais

They pretty much do based on showings.

War Arc Kakashi was struggling with Zabuza who his pre timeskip self matched.

He didn't rlly struggle, he took down both Zabuza and Haku without much difficulty and was cut because he was caught offguard.

I have no genuine argument, I just see a lack of good proof for half the stuff being insinuated

What didn't have proof?

 

[MadaraZKX]

Can someone tell me in which chapter Deidara states that he can regenerate from the damage caused by his C0?

 

[Kayzz]

Genjutsu cast on the victim's soul, would it be soul manipulation?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Can someone tell me in which chapter Deidara states that he can regenerate from the damage caused by his C0?

He didn't quite say it like that, but 518.
https://****************/wp-content/uploads/WP-manga/data/manga_61ca6ef79253a/90619e7078fad6aa6eae9f1a6ed63167/v55-b-(48).png