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Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

Arc7Kuroi said:
8atagq.jpg
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Godernet said:
FKS Sasuke clashes with Naruto(who was using a rasengan) once while Sasuke’s heavily fatigued and near blind.
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And Naruto wasn’t even serious. U have a fatigue Sasuke vs a non serious Naruto. What’s funny is that Naruto has been fighting for 2-3 days straight yet he’s either below Sasuke or equal to
Godernet said:
That implies they’re closer to the next tier than the current. And the 6C value they all scale to is nowhere near 6C+, it’s barely even above Baseline 6C.
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this is hell annoying considering that Base Naruto/Sasuke (godly chakra) wouldn’t have a “+” even though they r LEAGUES above the other 6C counterparts
Godernet said:
Idek what you’re trying to say here but Base Naruto is featless for most of the war.
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True but that doesn’t mean that he’s not comparable to Sasuke which wouldn’t make sense if he wasn’t. It’s literally portrayed in Part II that Kishimoto wants them to be close to one another or equal since there powerups is the decider of who’s on top vs the other

Ex: MS < SM < EMS = KCM
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
while Base Sasuke was fatigued and not using Sharingan due to blindness, he still attacked with Killing Intent. Base Naruto matched this, while poisoned and w/o Killing Intent.

Even going to back to Pain Invasion, Base Naruto could physically hold his own against Deva path and withstood a desperate ST, which Should scale him to, if not over Kakashi, whom can fight 3TM Sasuke,
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THIS
 
Shadowbokunohero said:
how did you come to that conclusion
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That conversation Blackejan was having was having with the others. I glossed over it 💀

I checked the Profiles and they scale to 5-C physically, but on Naruto’s profile under Attack Potency and Striking, it stops at BSM iirc. His SPSM Statisics aren't listed. They are under “Tier” but it looks like someone forgot to adjust his page fully.
 
BlackeJan said:
And Naruto wasn’t even serious. U have a fatigue Sasuke vs a non serious Naruto. What’s funny is that Naruto has been fighting for 2-3 days straight yet he’s either below Sasuke or equal to
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FKS Naruto hadn’t been fighting for three days

He was chilling in the land of iron while Sasuke was beefing with all of the Kage. He quite literally showed up to the fight Sasuke completely healthy

Whereas Sasuke, was exhausted after his fight with Danzo, he couldn’t even reliably overpower Kakashi, who got shat on by the Deva Path an arc prior, just like Base Nard did

BlackeJan said:
this is hell annoying considering that Base Naruto/Sasuke (godly chakra) wouldn’t have a “+” even though they r LEAGUES above the other 6C counterparts
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Ultimately, we don’t have an exact amount for how much stronger they got in base and they’re featless.

If there weren’t a decent amount of evidence supporting them having Hags chakra, they’d just be flat out at least 6C because they have no feats supporting them being 10x or 100x the other 6Cs

That gets into headcanon just because they’re unquantifiably stronger now.
BlackeJan said:
True but that doesn’t mean that he’s not comparable to Sasuke which wouldn’t make sense if he wasn’t. It’s literally portrayed in Part II that Kishimoto wants them to be close to one another or equal since there powerups is the decider of who’s on top vs the other

Ex: MS < SM < EMS = KCM
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They aren’t always comparable tho

Sasuke was a lot stronger than Naruto at the start of Shippuden.

Sage Mode Naruto was stronger than Taka Sasuke in Zetsu's words

MKCM2 Naruto was so much stronger than EMS Sasuke that he was getting mad like Part 1 Sasuke would.

it got so bad that Sasuke needed Jugo to bring him to the lvl of KSM Naruto with his Susanoo.

and even with Six Paths chakra, Naruto was strong enough to hold Sasuke off while he was trying to kill him and absorbed all the Bijuus.

Also, narrative implication of relativity doesn't mean they have to be relative in all forms.

SM Naruto can be relative to MS Sasuke without Base Naruto being relative to Base Sasuke.
 
NeoKingOfLight said:
As far as Base Naruto vs FKS Sasuke, I think to say Post Pain Imvasion Base Naruto = / = Base FKS Sasuke ignores the context Kishimoto lays out and is disingenuous.
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there is no "context" for base Naruto and Base Sasuke

the context is that if they both fought they would kill each other(which isn't even just a power thing but an allusion to Naruto sensing the Asura and Indura connections between him and Sasuke that would fatefully make them fight to the death.)

Full Power Sasuke being comparable to Full power Naruto does not mean they'll be equal in their Bases.
NeoKingOfLight said:
Even ignoring the high enough level opponents reading each other minds part, while Base Sasuke was fatigued and not using Sharingan due to blindness, he still attacked with Killing Intent. Base Naruto matched this, while poisoned and w/o Killing Intent.
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Killing Intent doesn't mean you all of a sudden hit harder.

Naruto almost never fights with killing intent that doesn't mean he's holding back.

and if anything that would contradict what he later says about "two high-level shinobi being able to communicate with their fists"

he wants to understand Sasuke and wants Sasuke to understand him. and to that end, he's not going to hold back verbally or combatively.
NeoKingOfLight said:
Even going to back to Pain Invasion, Base Naruto could physically hold his own against Deva path
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a weakened Deva Path that didn't even have the chakra for Shinra Tensei at the time.
NeoKingOfLight said:
and withstood a desperate ST, which Should scale him to,
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a ST that he used after using every bit of chakra he could to the point he was bleeding from his mouth and nose to seal KN6 Naruto and still failed.
NeoKingOfLight said:
if not over Kakashi, whom can fight 3TM Sasuke, whom was previously healed by Karin.
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why would taking a weakened ST scale him to Kakashi?

Also, Karin healed Sasuke before he fought Danzo and practically lost his eyesight by the end of the fight. not to mention Karin's heal isn't a 100% restore of chakra and health.

she would need the chakra to replenish Sasuke's chakra which she doesn't have.

We even saw this when Killer B almost murdered Sasuke, Jugo thought Karins heal wouldn't be enough and healed Sauce himself.
NeoKingOfLight said:
That certainly informs the reading minds through blows portion as well, which is context that shouldn’t be ignored.
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in context all it means is FP Nard and Sauce are relative, their bases don't have to be relative to fulfill that narrative.
NeoKingOfLight said:
able to produce Massive Rasengan’s in Base.
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the only time he's done that outside of Sage Mode is when Kurama gave him a bunch of chakra to deal with Madara's wood style.

other than that Base Naruto really doesn't do anything during the war.

Base Naruto isn't even shown to use regular rasengans without clones until Six Paths(though he probably could after befriending Kurama.)
 
The "high level Shinobi can communicate with their fists" thing is simply what we later found out to be chakra's inherent property to connect people's consciousness in order to achieve a form of telepathy, among other things. It's not necessarily a power-scaling relevant thing.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The "high level Shinobi can communicate with their fists" thing is simply what we later found out to be chakra's inherent property to connect people's consciousness in order to achieve a form of telepathy, among other things. It's not necessarily a power-scaling relevant thing.
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Nuh uh, BSM Naruto can communicate with the whole shinobi alliance, 5 kage and revived kage. So he must have the combined ap of all of them.

Time to make an upgrade
 
Godernet said:
there is no "context" for base Naruto and Base Sasuke
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There is, reread the manga.
Godernet said:
the context is that if they both fought they would kill each other(which isn't even just a power thing but an allusion to Naruto sensing the Asura and Indura connections between him and Sasuke that would fatefully make them fight to the death.)
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You’re making assumptions on what being reincarnates mean for that statement, which Inherently is a baseless take as nothing supports that. The “fact”, which you are trying to dance around or at worse “ignore” on baseless grounds is that AS I SAID, the context asserts Naruto is comparable enough to Sasuke. That was original context in VoTE 1. Kishimoto reinstated it here. Go argue with the writer, not me.
Godernet said:
Full Power Sasuke being comparable to Full power Naruto does not mean they'll be equal in their Bases.
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You’re splitting hairs here. I’ve already addressed Base to Base. I’ll do it again below…
Godernet said:
Killing Intent doesn't mean you all of a sudden hit harder.
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What it means is you’re not holding back, “at least”, which is the point.
Godernet said:
Naruto almost never fights with killing intent that doesn't mean he's holding back.
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This is actually false.

1.) Zabuza & Haku: Naruto was indifferent to inflicting mortal injures on them. Naruto wanted to kill Haku when he thought Sasuke died and only stopped after finding out their true identity, which made the situation complicated after his experience in the forest. While killing Zabuza was above his capabilities, taking actions that would leave mortal/fatal injuries was never a second thought. At no point other than Haku’s mask’s breaking was it stated or implied he didn’t have killing intent.

2.) Gaara: It was never stated or implied he didn’t intend to kill Gaara. As with Haku and Zabuza, Naruto (And this is a staple for 99% of his fights) was indifferent to inflicting Mortal / Fatal injuries on Gaara (He LITERALLY shoved Dynamite up his ass). And told Gaara point blank, he’d kill him if he didn’t stop.

3.) Orochimaru: Literally tried to kill him at every chance.

4.) Summonings: Didn’t care about killing Summonings or wild life.

5.) Kabuto: Tried to kill Kabuto. At no point was Naruto concerned about his life in SFT. At worst Naruto was indifferent to physical condition / living status when slamming Rasengan into his abdomen. And yes, Jiraiya taught him the difference between the non-killing version and the killing version.

6.) Sound 4 + Kimi: Same Deal as Kabuto, especially for Kimimaro.

I can go on… Itachi, Kakuzu, Pain, etc. The only instances where it is STATED OR IMPLIED Naruto didn’t have Killing Intent are those where, Naruto was caught off-guard or hit in the ego. Again, Haku’s mask breaking, Pain reminding him of Jiraiya’s Goal’s, having saw Obito's memories and shared his feelings when connected via chakra, etc. Y’all got Naruto f’ed up! 💀
Godernet said:
and if anything that would contradict what he later says about "two high-level shinobi being able to communicate with their fists"
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Except it doesn’t. You are literally ignoring the context here.
Godernet said:
he wants to understand Sasuke and wants Sasuke to understand him. and to that end, he's not going to hold back verbally or combatively.
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This is false. Naruto is shown to take actions to preserve Sasuke’s life, even if it means endangering himself. He showcased this in VoTE 1 during their final clash, where he chose to allow Sasuke to connect his punch as he went for the Headband because it was to make a statement to Sasuke, rebuking his entire views on him. And we know Naruto saw it coming based on what he said to Sasuke in VoTE 2.

Speaking of VoTE 2, Naruto fought that entire fight up until Indra’s Arrow only fighting defensively for the most part and holding back (Which Sasuke call’s him out for). So you’re wrong. Period. I point to the manga whereas you’re making baseless assumptions on these actions.

So yes, i’ll state the facts again… A poisoned Base Naruto w/o Killing Intent stalemated a Fatigued Base Sasuke w/ Killing Intent.
Godernet said:
a weakened Deva Path that didn't even have the chakra for Shinra Tensei at the time.
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You say weakened but at no point was his stamina or physical capabilities stated, portrayed or implied to be impaired. What IS stated is that the cool down period for the jutsu is extended when he uses that much power. Preta Path worked just fine after his Super ST… Naraka Path worked just fine… etc.

Same situation as Koto. A 10 Year Cooldown period doesn’t mean the power of the eye is diminshed. It just means that specific ability is inaccessible. Nagato then goes on to utilize abilities far beyond SST when he has access to the Deva Path abilities again. So no, he wasn’t “weakend”.
Godernet said:
a ST that he used after using every bit of chakra he could to the point he was bleeding from his mouth and nose to seal KN6 Naruto and still failed.
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This is a disingenuous reply. Even after all of that, knowing how strong SM Naruto was, Nagato was confident his chakra was enough to control SM Naruto, whom is stated to have ONLY broken free thanks to the added power of Kn0 stacked ontop of SM.

Uchiha’s bleed when they use Amaterasu. It’s not an argument that their ability is weaker because of it and based on actual feats, Nagato still had power > SM Naruto, so your point here is invalid.
Godernet said:
why would taking a weakened ST scale him to Kakashi?
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Prove it was weakend and don’t ignore what I addressed above either.
Godernet said:
Also, Karin healed Sasuke before he fought Danzo and practically lost his eyesight by the end of the fight. not to mention Karin's heal isn't a 100% restore of chakra and health.
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Karin healed Sasuke again before Danzou took her hostage. And you can waffle about this all you want, but end of the day she healed him to the point he could use Susanoo and even generate a complete Armored (Ala, Itachi) Susanoo. Him going Blind from that is what it is but bare minimum he was in MUCH better condition than when he was about to fight Mei and couldn’t maintain his Susanoo Ribs or Danzou when he broke the sealing.
Godernet said:
she would need the chakra to replenish Sasuke's chakra which she doesn't have.
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I’m not about to argue with you on what’s stated and shown as if it weren’t stated or shown.

Post-Danzou Fight: Sasuke can’t stand or keep his Sharingan Active.

After healing: Can fight comfortable in 3TM, Maintain a Stage 3 Susanoo and Generate a Complete Armor Susanoo.
Godernet said:
We even saw this when Killer B almost murdered Sasuke, Jugo thought Karins heal wouldn't be enough and healed Sauce himself.
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Read above. I’m above about argue what’s clearly shown and stated. But also note, Sasuke was not close to being as injured against Danzou as he was after taking a Horned Lariat, which is what factored into Jugo’s decision.
Godernet said:
in context all it means is FP Nard and Sauce are relative, their bases don't have to be relative to fulfill that narrative.
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Sure… but for these two, that’s just not the case. What also proves Base Naruto = 3TM Sasuke is the fact that with both being equally powered Six Path’s Chakra, Naruto can physically match him. If War Arc Base Naruto wasn’t physically comparable to 3TM Sasuke prior to both receiving SPC, Base Naruto wouldn’t be able to do this.

This supports the stance that yes, Base Naruto = 3TM Sasuke in the War Arc, which supports the stance during FKS / Post-Pain Invasion. It shouldn’t be this hard…
Godernet said:
the only time he's done that outside of Sage Mode is when Kurama gave him a bunch of chakra to deal with Madara's wood style.
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False. Kurama didn’t give him chakra until well after this.
Godernet said:
other than that Base Naruto really doesn't do anything during the war.
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He doesn’t have many base feats during the war, but he does have axillary feats. Again, he blatantly scales to Kakashi from the Pain Invasion. He has feats against Base FKS Sasuke while holding back, he has several feats in the War (Dodging 4Tails, Larger Rasengans, physically fighting Juubi Spawns whom Sakura Couldn’t hurt initially) and then of course downscaling from VoTE 2. Again, if Base Naruto WASN’T Relative to 3TM Sasuke before they met Hagoromo, Base Naruto wouldn’t be able to match 3TM Sasuke at VoTE 2. Both received EQUAL SPC from him.
Godernet said:
Base Naruto isn't even shown to use regular rasengans without clones until Six Paths(though he probably could after befriending Kurama.)
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Bro made 2 FRS against Juubi. He had surpassed Minato in CC long before SPSM. And let’s not forget… he actually DID form it in VoTE 1 by himself and it matched Sasuke’s Chidori. So he always could and always knew how. His CC was even better going into the TS, so it’s a moot point.
 
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