Naruto to Boruto Discussion Thread

[Arc7Kuroi]

They were pulled down from above the clouds, saying he summoned them from the ground without even looking at them then dropped them is a pretty big assumption

The claim never states he summoned them from the ground. All the claim states and implies is that he summons the meteors from an unknown location (space, a pocket dimension, somewhere from earth it doesn’t matter) above the clouds

 

[ssgengar]

The claim never states he summoned them from the ground. All the claim states and implies is that he summons the meteors from an unknown location (space, a pocket dimension, somewhere from earth it doesn’t matter) above the clouds

Are there any other summonings that appear far away from the user like that? Seems like a stretch

I always credited this feat to some deva path bs or something

 

[Reio35]

Deva path doesn't require hand signs which he used to make the meteor

 

[KingogKings777]

What’re y’all’s opinions on the claim that Madara pulled the meteors from outer space and elaborate. This will be a graded response.

Doesn't have the flame thing that single entry speed or something so it's baseless, more like he summoned them.

 

[ssgengar]

Deva path doesn't require hand signs which he used to make the meteor

That’s fair, it doesn’t necessarily have to be deva path exclusive though. rinnegan still makes more sense than summoning imo

 

[Godernet]

What’re y’all’s opinions on the claim that Madara pulled the meteors from outer space and elaborate. This will be a graded response.

I mean at the very least Kishimoto makes a conscious effort to distinguish Chibaku Tensei from Madara’s Tengai Shinsei meteors. Anyone that uses CT we see the meteors creation. And yet all Madara does is weave signs and they appear. I don’t think there is a single ninjutsu in the series that lets you create something that massive thousands of kilometers away without sending some kind of power via your chakra like CT does. He would have to be pulling them from somewhere. And it’s not like there’s a collection of meteors hanging out around Naruto’s earths upper atmosphere.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Why tf doesn't Tengai Shinsei have a databook entry? That would make answering this way easier.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I disagree with the notion that “he has to have pulled it from somewhere because we never see another jutsu summon something so far away”. I fail to see how a jutsu being unique discredits it or at least discredits that interpretation. There are plenty of jutsu that don’t act like other jutsu of the same category. Also, how would you tackle the fact that the meteor isn’t even ablated, heavily implying that it couldn’t have entered atmosphere at fast speeds at all.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why tf doesn't Tengai Shinsei have a databook entry? That would make answering this way easier.

Bro you’re telling me, I was legitimately shocked that such an impactful technique never got a databook entry.

 

[ssgengar]

I disagree with the notion that “he has to have pulled it from somewhere because we never see another jutsu summon something so far away”. I fail to see how a jutsu being unique discredits it or at least discredits that interpretation. There are plenty of jutsu that don’t act like other jutsu of the same category.

I’m not trying to discredit that possibility, but idk doubling down on a falling meteor summoning just seems random I guess

Also, how would you tackle the fact that the meteor isn’t even ablated, heavily implying that it couldn’t have entered atmosphere at fast speeds at all.

Cause fiction idk

 

[GTsek]

What’re y’all’s opinions on the claim that Madara pulled the meteors from outer space and elaborate. This will be a graded response.

Naruto's wikis says: "The user weaves three hand seals simultaneously between themselves and their Susanoo, in order to draw massive meteorites from the upper atmosphere down towards a specific location on the ground." I've always wondered where they got this information from, but I know the Portuguese Wiki editor and he said it's information from one of the Storm series games. It's not exactly a canonical source, but at least it's official.

 

[Godernet]

I disagree with the notion that “he has to have pulled it from somewhere because we never see another jutsu summon something so far away”. I fail to see how a jutsu being unique discredits it or at least discredits that interpretation. There are plenty of jutsu that don’t act like other jutsu of the same category. Also, how would you tackle the fact that the meteor isn’t even ablated, heavily implying that it couldn’t have entered atmosphere at fast speeds at all.

It isn’t just that we’ve never seen one pull from so far away but it’s just so far out of line from regular ninjutsu or summons. Ninjutsu couldn’t have created it because chakra needs to be molded into something for that. Literally, every ninjutsu needs the user or their chakra to be present to be cast—the same with summoning Jutsu. You need a contract seal with a pre-established target or a mark like the flying Raijin. Even if this jutsu was an exception we have no actual proof of what it is other than that it didn’t look to be traveling at ridiculous speeds on reentry. IMO It assumes less to say Tengai Shinsei is just a bloated version of the rinnegan's preestablished gravity manipulation rather than him just having this unique ability to summon meteors from ridiculous ranges with no contract seal or being anywhere near the summon. And in all honesty I feel like that’s just Kishimoto not knowing how to depict it’s speed but that’s beside the point

 

[KingogKings777]

And in all honesty I feel like that’s just Kishimoto not knowing how to depict it’s speed but that’s beside the point

Man drew space bending from Guy going fast, I think he knows about speed.

 

[KingogKings777]

Another L take from undre

Wasn't there a databook scan that said the seals gave them chakra or something?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Naruto's wikis says: "The user weaves three hand seals simultaneously between themselves and their Susanoo, in order to draw massive meteorites from the upper atmosphere down towards a specific location on the ground." I've always wondered where they got this information from, but I know the Portuguese Wiki editor and he said it's information from one of the Storm series games. It's not exactly a canonical source, but at least it's official.

I’d like to see the original source cuz that would be very useful.

It isn’t just that we’ve never seen one pull from so far away but it’s just so far out of line from regular ninjutsu or summons. Ninjutsu couldn’t have created it because chakra needs to be molded into something for that. Literally, every ninjutsu needs the user or their chakra to be present to be cast—the same with summoning Jutsu. You need a contract seal with a pre-established target or a mark like the flying Raijin. Even if this jutsu was an exception we have no actual proof of what it is other than that it didn’t look to be traveling at ridiculous speeds on reentry. IMO It assumes less to say Tengai Shinsei is just a bloated version of the rinnegan's preestablished gravity manipulation rather than him just having this unique ability to summon meteors from ridiculous ranges with no contract seal or being anywhere near the summon. And in all honesty I feel like that’s just Kishimoto not knowing how to depict it’s speed but that’s beside the point

a few things to unpack. I disagree that assuming he pulled it from space is the path of least assumptions. The way I see both claims are built on a single main assumption, summoning the meteor from somewhere vs pulling the meteor from somewhere. Really just a conversation on how it got there. Any way you cut this pie it’s a unique jutsu that isn’t exactly like any other jutsu, even weirder that it requires the use of 3 hand signs simultaneously. Regarding it not resembling other summoning techniques, it doesn’t resemble the other Rinnegan attraction techniques either, so I’m still not sold on the argument that it can’t be summoning cuz it’s so unique. Also, saying Kishimoto doesn’t know meteors can be ablated isn’t really productive in any means. Ik you crossed it out so you probably agree it’s not substantial. But meteors entering atmosphere on fire isn’t a secret concept, I’d reckon most people who know what a meteor is would know that they come into atmosphere on fire just due to how commonly that is depicted.

 

[Godernet]

Man drew space bending from Guy going fast, I think he knows about speed.

not that he doesnt know how to depict speed itself but that he doesn't know that if something that big was flying in from our atmosphere it would definitely be on fire.

 

[Duedate8898]

How do y’all respond to the claim that he could’ve summoned them rather than physically move them

Summoning them seems unlikely since all summoning jutsu we see in the series will show the appearance of seals come directly from the summoner themselves. There's always a visual element as far I remember. Ninjutsu, on the other hand, doesn't require any such thing and from what I remember also never directly summons something from somewhere else. So just following how those two forms of jutsu tend to differ, I'd put more stock in the meteor's being pulled than being summoned from somewhere else.

 

[KingogKings777]

Summoning them seems unlikely since all summoning jutsu we see in the series will show the appearance of seals come directly from the summoner themselves. There's always a visual element as far I remember. Ninjutsu, on the other hand, doesn't require any such thing and from what I remember also never directly summons something from somewhere else. So just following how those two forms of jutsu tend to differ, I'd put more stock in the meteor's being pulled than being summoned from somewhere else.

It's a slow-ass meteor then if it's getting pulled.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Summoning them seems unlikely since all summoning jutsu we see in the series will show the appearance of seals come directly from the summoner themselves. There's always a visual element as far I remember. Ninjutsu, on the other hand, doesn't require any such thing and from what I remember also never directly summons something from somewhere else. So just following how those two forms of jutsu tend to differ, I'd put more stock in the meteor's being pulled than being summoned from somewhere else.

I agree that it appears most likely, but how do you reconcile the meteor not being ablated.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

It isn’t just that we’ve never seen one pull from so far away but it’s just so far out of line from regular ninjutsu or summons. Ninjutsu couldn’t have created it because chakra needs to be molded into something for that. Literally, every ninjutsu needs the user or their chakra to be present to be cast—the same with summoning Jutsu. You need a contract seal with a pre-established target or a mark like the flying Raijin. Even if this jutsu was an exception we have no actual proof of what it is other than that it didn’t look to be traveling at ridiculous speeds on reentry. IMO It assumes less to say Tengai Shinsei is just a bloated version of the rinnegan's preestablished gravity manipulation rather than him just having this unique ability to summon meteors from ridiculous ranges with no contract seal or being anywhere near the summon. And in all honesty I feel like that’s just Kishimoto not knowing how to depict it’s speed but that’s beside the point

I mean technically Yin release is the ability to make form out of nothing but whatever

 

[Godernet]

I mean technically Yin release is the ability to make form out of nothing but whatever

Yin release still needs you to mold your chakra into a yin release jutsu that creates something out of nothing. Not Madara summoning a meteor thousands of KMs away from himself and his chakra.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yin release still needs you to mold your chakra into a yin release jutsu that creates something out of nothing. Not Madara summoning a meteor thousands of KMs away from himself and his chakra.

The meteor can be the Yin release jutsu.

 

[Shadyboi0]

I always thought of it as a roided chibaku tensei

 

[Duedate8898]

I agree that it appears most likely, but how do you reconcile the meteor not being ablated.

I don't really, Naruto ignores physics of that nature enough for me that its easy to ignore.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I don't really, Naruto ignores physics of that nature enough for me that its easy to ignore.

Fair enough. I disagree with that line of logic but I don’t fault it

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I rlly rlly don't like the fact that on the profiles, Hebi Sasuke and KCM Naruto's AP are considered less than 2x apart. Ik the 10x multiplier is axed, but considering SM balances your physical and mental energy equally with nature energy to create senjutsu, it logically follows that it at least multiplies you by 3/2 times (more cause senjutsu chakra is more potent than regular chakra, but even downplayed it's 1.66x). Probably at least 2x, but 1.66x is easier to argue.

Do ppl agree? I might make a CRT about that. It wouldn't get SM Jiraiya to High 7-A+ (he'd be at 2.32 gigatons cause SM Jiraiya 1.66x >Base Jiraiya~Orochimaru>CM2 Sasuke~1.4 Gigatons), but with characters far above like 6T Naruto, FP Pain, KCM Naruto, etc., they should upscale enough that they get to it.

 

[Godernet]

a few things to unpack. I disagree that assuming he pulled it from space is the path of least assumptions. The way I see both claims are built on a single main assumption, summoning the meteor from somewhere vs pulling the meteor from somewhere. Really just a conversation on how it got there. Any way you cut this pie it’s a unique jutsu that isn’t exactly like any other jutsu, even weirder that it requires the use of 3 hand signs simultaneously. Regarding it not resembling other summoning techniques, it doesn’t resemble the other Rinnegan attraction techniques either, so I’m still not sold on the argument that it can’t be summoning cuz it’s so unique. Also, saying Kishimoto doesn’t know meteors can be ablated isn’t really productive in any means. Ik you crossed it out so you probably agree it’s not substantial. But meteors entering atmosphere on fire isn’t a secret concept, I’d reckon most people who know what a meteor is would know that they come into atmosphere on fire just due to how commonly that is depicted.

I definitely agree that both interpretations are just equal assumptions. there's really not much to go off of since Madara uses it once, refuses to elaborate, and forgets it exists. If he just has the ability to summon Meteors it just feels weird that he summons it to the upper atmosphere and not just right over their heads. also if he had an ability that just summons larger meteors far quicker than chibaku tensei why would he ever use chibaku Tensei. none of this was to argue the point btw just complaining that we know nothing about such a strong ability.

 

[Godernet]

I rlly rlly don't like the fact that on the profiles, Hebi Sasuke and KCM Naruto's AP are considered less than 2x apart. Ik the 10x multiplier is axed, but considering SM balances your physical and mental energy equally with nature energy to create senjutsu, it logically follows that it at least multiplies you by 3/2 times (more cause senjutsu chakra is more potent than regular chakra, but even downplayed it's 1.66x). Probably at least 2x, but 1.66x is easier to argue.

Do ppl agree? I might make a CRT about that. It wouldn't get SM Jiraiya to High 7-A+ (he'd be at 2.32 gigatons cause SM Jiraiya 1.66x >Base Jiraiya~Orochimaru>CM2 Sasuke~1.4 Gigatons), but with characters far above like 6T Naruto, FP Pain, KCM Naruto, etc., they should upscale enough that they get to it.

I mean Sage Jiraiya and Sage Naruto are a part of the sannin tier characters that are being revised next. they'll probably end up scaling at least on the lvl of Kirin being 6C. Unless some new calc gets accepted for these characters that makes sannin tier higher who knows.

 

[Testarossa002]

What are y'all thoughts on applying the 2x increase in Ap to speed?
And the 10% Jigen whatever

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I mean Sage Jiraiya and Sage Naruto are a part of the sannin tier characters that are being revised next. they'll probably end up scaling at least on the lvl of Kirin being 6C. Unless some new calc gets accepted for these characters that makes sannin tier higher who knows.

Sannin level characters scaling to Kirin? Not sure what the reasoning is for that but ig I'll see.

 

[ssgengar]

What are y'all thoughts on applying the 2x increase in Ap to speed?

For momo?

 

[AnimesFreak2]

 

[Reio35]

What are y'all thoughts on applying the 2x increase in Ap to speed?
And the 10% Jigen whatever

I think it's complete nonsense. Jigen being at 10% power doesn't mean he's 10x weaker. His chakra reserves can be at 10% but that doesn't take away from his chakra output. For example you can have planet level chakra reserves but your output/ap is only moon level. If someone takes half your chakra that wouldn't lower your ap.

Kashsin koji is planet vai upscaling from delta who=spsm naruto. And jigen at 10% was able to fight him. But plp also ignore the fact he was trading blows with 100% isshiki. Not to mention naruto and Sasuke took blows from 100% jigen yet their not large planet because it would contradict the scaling. As naruto also scales to delta who he fought just before fighting 100% jigen

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Undre.....

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Free entertainment

 

[BlastX]

I rlly rlly don't like the fact that on the profiles, Hebi Sasuke and KCM Naruto's AP are considered less than 2x apart. Ik the 10x multiplier is axed, but considering SM balances your physical and mental energy equally with nature energy to create senjutsu, it logically follows that it at least multiplies you by 3/2 times (more cause senjutsu chakra is more potent than regular chakra, but even downplayed it's 1.66x). Probably at least 2x, but 1.66x is easier to argue.

Do ppl agree? I might make a CRT about that. It wouldn't get SM Jiraiya to High 7-A+ (he'd be at 2.32 gigatons cause SM Jiraiya 1.66x >Base Jiraiya~Orochimaru>CM2 Sasuke~1.4 Gigatons), but with characters far above like 6T Naruto, FP Pain, KCM Naruto, etc., they should upscale enough that they get to it.

You can probably upgrade KCM Naruto by Kakashi's statement that Naruto by himself has 4x Kakashi's Chakra and that with Kurama's Chakra he have 100x chakra, which he was likely referring to Versions 2 4 Tail cloak since that was the highest showcase of Kurama's Chakra up to that point, so KCM Naruto would be 100x stronger than Pre-War Arc Kakashi or 5 Gigatons (6-C).

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You can probably upgrade KCM Naruto by Kakashi's statement that Naruto by himself has 4x Kakashi's Chakra and that with Kurama's Chakra he have 100x chakra, which he was likely referring to Versions 2 4 Tail cloak since that was the highest showcase of Kurama's Chakra up to that point, so KCM Naruto would be 100x stronger than Pre-War Arc Kakashi or 5 Gigatons (6-C).

Eh maybe , could be referring to fully released Kurama tho.

 

[BlastX]

I may need to check, but I doubt he's referring to fully released Kurama, he's likely referring to Fourth Awakneded mode/KN4/Version 2/whatever the **** you wanna call it since up to that point that's the strongest Kurama influence he ever had and I doubt Kakashi could truly know how powerful fully released Kurama really is.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I may need to check, but I doubt he's referring to fully released Kurama, he's likely referring to Fourth Awakneded mode/KN4/Version 2/whatever the **** you wanna call it since up to that point that's the strongest Kurama influence he ever had and I doubt Kakashi could truly know how powerful fully released Kurama really is.

He wasn't actually on the mission where 4T Naruto emerged, he only ever saw 2T Naruto I think.