Naruto: The Last Revisions (Maybe)

[RinkakuKagune]

Since Kep said he's fine with whatever desiscion we come acroos what's the consensus on the Bijuu being physically comparable to their Bijuudama. After all they amanged to harm a Sage enhanced Madara and are made of pure chakra anyway so any justsu - for them not for all ninja - would scale to them physically.

 

[Frantzy12]

Why are Indra and Asura Multi-Continent? They literally have 0 feats.

 

[RinkakuKagune]

^...Because they scale to Naruto and Sasuke...

 

[Frantzy12]

Naruto and Sasuke are stronger then them..

 

[Dzhindzholia]

Hagoromo stated once that he gave all his power to Ashura.So,Ashura>Naruto/Sasuke.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

I just went over the calcs, and was the 4 tails crater calc accepted even? I don't support the "Vaporization" method as it was basically a Nine-Tails Chakra Roar.

Pulverization should be used, not Vaporization. Same goes for Shinra Tensei. It's a Gravity Wave.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

If so, it'd downgrade the 7-B characters like Orochimaru and such. Though there's still the 7-B stuff for the durability of Itachi's Susanoo, but I dunno if it can apply to his AP.

That Shinra Tensei calc wasn't used, iirc.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

If so, it'd downgrade the 7-B characters like Orochimaru and such. Though there's still the 7-B stuff for the durability of Itachi's Susanoo, but I dunno if it can apply to his AP.
That Shinra Tensei calc wasn't used, iirc.

Should be Noted that Oro scales from 4 tails at least:




No way Orochimaru could've been at 100% if his body waa continuously rejecting him. And not quite, 4 tails Biju Dama did vaporize a portion of the forest that near comparable to the crater despite being nerfed by Oro's Rashomon.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Btw, im not sure if anybody has thought to calc the 4 tails biju dama like this but:


*Red Circle = Point where blast stops (Where the steam starts rising over the trees).

• Blue line = Length

• Purple = width

The Depth is the same as the crater. This feat could also be potentially higher as we can assume the area behind Orochimaru would also have been vaporized had his Rashomon not nerfed the blast.

 

[Kepekley23]

Well, I don't want to base a higher rating on an assumption.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Well, I don't want to base a higher rating on an assumption.

Understand able, but 7-B is still based on this anyways, thus no downgrade is necessary. Somebody can always calc it who does Pixel scaling and such better than me. I believe the result would still prove 7-B is likely regardless.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Naruto and Sasuke are stronger then them..

Because he is a Six Paths Senjutsu user and thus he should scale at the very least to the lowest Six Paths Senjutsu user (Obito).

And it was stated that he had been given power by Hagoromo.

 

[Frantzy12]

Naruto and Sasuke are stronger then them..

Because he is a Six Paths Senjutsu user and thus he should scale at the very least to the lowest Six Paths Senjutsu user (Obito).

And it was stated that he had been given power by Hagoromo.

Indra doesn't even have the rinnegan,so how does he scale to six paths obito who had the rinnegan and the 10 tails which is essentially kaguya ? Neither of them scale at all to the current cast.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

They both inherited some of the power of the Sage of Six Paths. There was no need for the Juubi when they inherited power from Hagoromo who scales to the Juubi.

And for the record Obito absorbed an incomplete Jubbi which was nowhere near as powerful as the complete one (Madara's one) or Kaguya. They don't scale to those.

 

[Frantzy12]

My god one of the worst scaling I ever seen.Indra and Ashura scale to neither Obito nor anyone else.It's faulty and downright wrong, There is 0 evidence for the stat justification at all literally except 1 panel stating they inherited something.Multi-Contential and Sub-relativistic Indra and Asura lmao -.-.

Also, I know Obito isn't as strong as Kaguya, I simply stated that the Jubbi is essentially her.

 

[DanielX7]

About the people who thinks than Sasuke EMS doesn't scale to Madara EMS, just remember:

Sasuke did'nt have time to develop his Perfect Susano'o unlike Madara. Besides, the Rinnegan is a different doujutsu, get it DON'T IMPROVES THE SHARINGAN HABILITIES, in this case, the fact of get his Supreme Rinnegan isn't relacionated whith his obtention of the Perfect Susano'o.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Well whatever the Staff decide then. I ain't calling the shots.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

About the people who thinks than Sasuke EMS doesn't scale to Madara EMS, just remember:'''''Sasuke did'nt have time to develop his Perfect Susano'o unlike Madara. Besides, the Rinnegan is a different doujutsu, get it DON'T IMPROVES THE SHARINGAN HABILITIES, in this case, the fact of get his Supreme Rinnegan isn't relacionated whith his obtention of the Perfect Susano'o.

You keep forget ONE major thing though. Yes he didn't have time or the chakra BUT he GOT SIX PATHS CAKRA FROM HAGOROMO.

That's a pretty big POWER UP. Not only the Rinnegan. Susanoo depends also in chakra volume. EMS Madara's chakra is massive even for Uchiha standards. Of course that happened because he was reincarnation of Indra like Sasuke, but it took time to develop his abilities. He didn't have help from Godly ghost too...

So by Sasuke's performance in that time he is not impressive at all compared to EMS Madara.

 

[DanielX7]

About the people who thinks than Sasuke EMS doesn't scale to Madara EMS, just remember:'''''Sasuke did'nt have time to develop his Perfect Susano'o unlike Madara. Besides, the Rinnegan is a different doujutsu, get it DON'T IMPROVES THE SHARINGAN HABILITIES, in this case, the fact of get his Supreme Rinnegan isn't relacionated whith his obtention of the Perfect Susano'o.

You keep forget ONE major thing though. Yes he didn't have time or the chakra BUT he GOT SIX PATHS CAKRA FROM HAGOROMO.

That's a pretty big POWER UP. Not only the Rinnegan. Susanoo depends also in chakra volume. EMS Madara's chakra is massive even for Uchiha standards. Of course that happened because he was reincarnation of Indra like Sasuke, but it took time to develop his abilities. He didn't have help from Godly ghost too...

So by Sasuke's performance in that time he is not impressive at all compared to EMS Madara.

Even if Sasuke had not obtained that power up, he would have achieved the same Susano'o Perfecto, just enough to see the enormous improvement that had his Susano'o while he had MS (remember how much he evolved against Raikage, Danzo and ultimately Kakashi) , if they had given him more time, in the same war he would have developed it, since he does not have a little chakra, he only remember when he spamed amaterasu (a technique that uses a lot of chakra) to kill a few Zetsus.
He have lacked time, not chakra, since he was proved to have enough to create the huge and strong chakra mass that is the Perfect Susano'o.

 

[Tenshin-Ta]

I agree with KOMI, most of the feats Sasuke performmed brfore he got a power up was being lent a Fox Cloak from Naruto and Senjutsu from Juugo.

Heck, Sasuke even feels inferior to Naruto in several panels when he added senjutsu to his Bijuudama.

 

[DanielX7]

I agree with KOMI, most of the feats Sasuke performmed brfore he got a power up was being lent a Fox Cloak from Naruto and Senjutsu from Juugo.
Heck, Sasuke even feels inferior to Naruto in several panels when he added senjutsu to his Bijuudama.

He was fell inferior to Naruto not in chakra volume, he was fell inferior in chakra management (he said this explicit when he see Naruto using the Kurama's Chakra in the BM) and because he doesn't have senjutsu to harm Juubito.

 

[Amexim]

Asura and Indra should get an At least (equal to Kakashi, base naruto or Sasuke), and a possibly what they are now, do to the vague idea that they could be equal to the current incarnations. Also, where was it stated that Naruto and Sasuke surpassed Ashura and Indra?

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

They should scale more to DMS kakashi than anything else, kakashis power up is the exact same power as indras, who is comparable to asura

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Indra = At Least Low 6-B, Possibly Low 5-B (Shouldn't be weaker than EMS Madara, Possibly has half of Hagoromo's Chakra)

Ashura = At Least Low 6-B, Possibly Low 5-B (Shouldn't be weaker than Base Hashirama, Possibly has half of Hagoromo's chakra)

This is based on the scan that says Ashura inherited Hagoromo's Yang Chakra and Indra his Yin Chakra. And Base Hashirama and EMS Madara as they are their reincarnates.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Btw, you guys can't freakin say EMS Sasuke isn't as Impressive as EMS Madara I mean, these are his feats in order:

• Killed Zetsu Platoon

• Fought SM Kabuto without trying to Kill him (Note, SM Kabuto would likely swerve the Gokage).

• Fought Miniature juubi creatures (Low Diffing them).

• Reacted and moved fast enough to Block mindless Juubito's TSB assualt on KCM Naruto.

• Fought Juubito alongside BSM Naruto (Albeit with amps (Though, it should be noted that when Sasuke used PS, he no longer had the Kyuubi Cloak nor was being amped by Juugo's CM)).

• Bull Rushed SM Madara cornering him.

So...I don't see how Madara is more impressive when His PS was only ever showed once against an opponent that would maje EMS Madara look like Fodder....

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

wait didnt Naruto's rasengan > 8-A Kabuto

 

[TheFinalOrder]

wait didnt Naruto's rasengan > 8-A Kabuto

Um...War Arc Kabuto shouldn't be 8-A ....and Tis was SM Kabuto Sasuke fought btw.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

nah i mean in Part I, ?

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

@TFO

You mean Orochimaru and KN4 don't need to be downgraded?

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

Btw, you guys can't freakin say EMS Sasuke isn't as Impressive as EMS Madara I mean, these are his feats in order:

• Killed Zetsu Platoon

• Fought SM Kabuto without trying to Kill him (Note, SM Kabuto would likely swerve the Gokage).

• Fought Miniature juubi creatures (Low Diffing them).

• Reacted and moved fast enough to Block mindless Juubito's TSB assualt on KCM Naruto.

• Fought Juubito alongside BSM Naruto (Albeit with amps (Though, it should be noted that when Sasuke used PS, he no longer had the Kyuubi Cloak nor was being amped by Juugo's CM)).

• Bull Rushed SM Madara cornering him.

So...I don't see how Madara is more impressive when His PS was only ever showed once against an opponent that would maje EMS Madara look like Fodder....

• Itachi also could stop SM Kabuto... Gokage would smash Kabuto.
• Madara and Hashi fodderized Juubi creatures without trying.
• Sasuke and Naruto's chakra combined and formed what they formed...
• SM Madara was blind, didn't want to kill Sasuke and was just adjust to SM.

EMS Madara fought SM Hashi after Kurama was put to sleep and both ended exhausted. I don't even think Hashi viewed Madara's PS 'fodder'

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Komie

• Based on what? Itachi beat him with a Broken Genjutsu that was lucky to have worked. Circumstantial at best. Otherwise, No....SM Kabuto had him feat.

• SM Hashirama and Edo Madara >>> EMS Madara, not to mention Sasuke was in Base. When he did use Susanoo, he fodderized them still. You can't compare them going all out to Sasuke not even fighting full power my dude.

• No, read the manga again, Naruto and Sasuke didn't fuse their chakra. Sasuke cloaked Naruto's avatar in PS like Madara using PS as armor =/= Fusing PS with Kyuubi chakra. At best you can argue Naruto amplidied PS with Nature Energy like he did with Minato's Rasengan, but that's it and it's an assumption. That being said, still doesn't matter as It's only shown against Juubito....Do I have to explain the difference in power between Juubito and EMS Madara?

• SM Madara's body and basic non-Dojutsu jutsu would be vastly superior to When he was alive previously. Sasuke still cornered him.

Hashirama never fought Madara with the intent to kill him until they were already exhausted. Your point? Even then, Naruto for example wouldn't think Sasuke's PS was fodder despite the fact that if he wanted to, he could fodderize it based on feats. I'm not trying to push Sasuke as equal to Madara, but Madara isn't necessarily shown as more impressive. Thus I believe a "Possibly" Low 6-B for Sasuke scaling from Madara is fair as his upper limits are unknown due to PS only being used against a At least High 6-A character.

 

[TataHakai]

Gokage would smash Kabuto.

No

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

Indra = At Least Low 6-B, Possibly Low 5-B (Shouldn't be weaker than EMS Madara, Possibly has half of Hagoromo's Chakra)

Ashura = At Least Low 6-B, Possibly Low 5-B (Shouldn't be weaker than Base Hashirama, Possibly has half of Hagoromo's chakra)

This is based on the scan that says Ashura inherited Hagoromo's Yang Chakra and Indra his Yin Chakra. And Base Hashirama and EMS Madara as they are their reincarnates.

I suppose I can perform these edits then.

 

[Kepekley23]

Yes.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

@Komie

• Based on what? Itachi beat him with a Broken Genjutsu that was lucky to have worked. Circumstantial at best. Otherwise, No....SM Kabuto had him feat.

• SM Hashirama and Edo Madara >>> EMS Madara, not to mention Sasuke was in Base. When he did use Susanoo, he fodderized them still. You can't compare them going all out to Sasuke not even fighting full power my dude.

• No, read the manga again, Naruto and Sasuke didn't fuse their chakra. Sasuke cloaked Naruto's avatar in PS like Madara using PS as armor =/= Fusing PS with Kyuubi chakra. At best you can argue Naruto amplidied PS with Nature Energy like he did with Minato's Rasengan, but that's it and it's an assumption. That being said, still doesn't matter as It's only shown against Juubito....Do I have to explain the difference in power between Juubito and EMS Madara?

• SM Madara's body and basic non-Dojutsu jutsu would be vastly superior to When he was alive previously. Sasuke still cornered him.

Hashirama never fought Madara with the intent to kill him until they were already exhausted. Your point? Even then, Naruto for example wouldn't think Sasuke's PS was fodder despite the fact that if he wanted to, he could fodderize it based on feats. I'm not trying to push Sasuke as equal to Madara, but Madara isn't necessarily shown as more impressive. Thus I believe a "Possibly" Low 6-B for Sasuke scaling from Madara is fair as his upper limits are unknown due to PS only being used against a At least High 6-A character.

• If Itachi wanted him dead he would have been dead. Kabuto was hard not to kill.
• No... They are > EMS but not >>. For example EMS Madara's susanoo here tanked the Bijuu Dama where base Hashi's Wood Golem was destroyed and had another construct. Hashirama's Ultimate jutsu destroyed half of EMS Madara's PS. Hashi as an edo is close to original power but a tiny bit weaker. Making EMS Madara << Edo Madara doesn't making any sense.
• Sasuke has the same potential as Madara but here as many characters and Madara himself said that he is not on his level. One day he will reach it.
• Madara was adjusting to SM and here was not at full power. He missed his eyes. If he wanted he could kill Sasuke. Sasuke didn't even knew when Madara escaped his sword. He talked to him and he had also to save chakra so he can confront the Tailed Beasts. The jutsus are as strong as the chakra used for them. Hashirama after even gave him a jutsu to restarin him since he had Hashi's SM. Meaning Sasuke couldn't do something to stop Madara without it.
• Even if SM Hashirma didn't fight Madara with the intent to kill then SM Hashirama wouldn't have such a big problem. He tried to stop EMS and Kurama with best tech. Here he is shown sweating. He shouldn't be using SM against Madara if Base was enough.
• I said they mixed because Naruto and Sasuke are in the Sasunoo crystal. Also even with this the made a scratch at Juubito's body but it was enough since the goal was to pull the bijuu out. And Obito lost because he lost the will to fight. Even that wouldn't have worked if Naruto didn't connect with Obito and TNJ him... Juubito's durability is not the best too. He was damaged by far weaker attacks.

Possibly Higher for Sasuke is better.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I've revised Indra and Asura once more. I think it's a good place for them to be.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

guys we need to revise the verse page aswell, plz dont forget

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I agree. Meosos' take on the verse page was really good.

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Meosos/Naruto_Revision

Putting it here if anyone wants to see it.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Komie

Disagree heavily with your scaling of EMS Madara, it makes no sense and is based on a technicality that doesn't suppport the context of the fight. But I don't have the energy to go in circles on it with you. So i'll agreeto disagree with that, and no, Itachi couldn't beat Kabuto without Izanami.

If you prefer Sasuke to have Possibly Higher only, sure, I can get with that.