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Naruto Speed Revisions and Scaling

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Well, I left a suggestion up above that if the Sub-Rel ratings are going to potentially affect the characters currently in the sandbox, then that needs to be added in to the sandbox so we can see the full scaling chain.

Present I believe that Tobi and Konan should just be MHS+ instead of At least MHS+ (not including perception speed in here), and that Sage Mode Naruto shouldn't be "likely far higher".
 
The ones that are there right now? I don't fully know since I don't know who the Sub Rel scaling will impact, but for most of them right now I doubt it. With most of their current justifications I think they all look fine as just MHS+.
 
We should finish this characters now and discuss the High Tiers, and then, see if someone from the top mid tier scales. That's easy
 
Then let's not add the "At least". How a useless thing like this is taking so long?
 
M3X said:
Sage Mode Naruto should for sure be "likely far higher"
Click to expand...
Sage Mode Naruto > Pain > Kakashi. Giving Naruto just an "At least" isn't enough to show his superiority over the characters below him.
 
M3X said:
Sage Mode Naruto should for sure be "likely far higher"
Click to expand...
There isn't any reason given in the sandbox for it.

Also, this isn't really taking that long tbh.
 
It doesn't matter if there isn't a reason in the sandbox, we a re discussing it now
 
Okay, that's fair. I'm just saying that the sandbox is what the proposals are, and there wasn't a reason associated for it in the sandbox so I didn't think it belonged there.
 
@Damage, after we finish discussing wherever Sage Naruto should go, you kind closing this thread? It's almost full so I want to open up a new one
 
Well, Base Naruto is equal to Kakashi, or at least, comparable. Pain is for sure faster than Kakashi, and he should be one of the fastest members of Akatsuki, as Hidan said his own attacks are the slowest, but even then, could keep up with Kakashi, attacking and reacting to his attacks.

Some Pain could easily react to Kakashi's Raikiri at point blank range. Not to mention that the same Pain dodged Raikirin at point blank range (Yeah I know it was with the Rinnegan vision, but it doesn't amp his speed). Well, that's enough to prove Pain is faster than Kakashi.

Now for Naruto

Ok, that's enough to put Naruto far, far faster than Kakashi, who is MHS+. Sage Mode Naruto > Pain > Naruto in base = or > Kakashi, maybe. SM Naruto should be "At least" and "likely far higher"
 
Sage Mode Naruto reaction should be sub-rel cuz SM>kcm in reaction

and also Sage Mode Naruto reaction>3rd reikage attack speed
 
@M3X; I'm pretty sure the last one of those doesn't really count because he was using a surprise attack from a direction none of the Pain's could see.

Pain isn't shown to be massively faster in the scans you linked; he's just been capable of reacting to Kakashi's Raikiri and intercepting him when Kakashi tried to attack the Deva Pain. Pain being a bit faster than Kakashi would still make him Massively Hypersonic+.

SM Naruto I'm fine with being "At least Massively Hypersonic+" but I don't think the scans you've provided shows that he's far higher than that. At best we can say he's "Likely higher" but he clearly wasn't stomping Pain with pure speed aside from the first feat you linked.
 
Pain isn't shown to be massively faster in the scans you linked; he's just been capable of reacting to Kakashi's Raikiri and intercepting him when Kakashi tried to attack the Deva Pain. Pain being a bit faster than Kakashi would still make him Massively Hypersonic+

You should really read what I said multiple times before commenting this. Asura Path dodged Raikiri at point blank range, and after this, intercepted the same Raikiri when he was some meters away. Intercept an MHS+ attack while you are meters away (and the attack, literally centimeters) makes you far, far faster than the attack itself. As we can't do calc stacking, we just put an "At least". Is it really hard to understand?

SM Naruto I'm fine with being "At least Massively Hypersonic+" but I don't think the scans you've provided shows that he's far higher than that. At best we can say he's "Likely higher" but he clearly wasn't stomping Pain with pure speed aside from the first feat you linked.

I never said he was stomping Pain with pure speed, or I never meant that. What I said was that SM Naruto is faster than Pain, to the point he could barely react to his attacks. I am fine with "likely higher" too.
 
@M3X; you may not being doing this intentionally but when you force in questions like "Is it really hard to understand?", you come off as being unnecessarily demeaning. Don't assume that people who don't see things your way are idiots.

The first time the Asura Path dodged the attack, it wasn't at point-blank range. It was close to him, yes, but he could see the attack coming. That doesn't make him far faster than Kakashi.

For the second feat, we have no idea when the Asura Path started moving in relation to how close Kakashi was to attacking the Deva Pain. I don't have a problem with accepting that Pain is faster than Kakashi, but I think you're overselling it a little.
 
'The first time the Asura Path dodged the attack, it wasn't at point-blank range. It was close to him, yes, but he could see the attack coming. That doesn't make him far faster than Kakashi.

The first attack clearly at a point blank range distance from Asura Path. This is less than a meter. Asura Path could see, so what? Does this makes him faster? No, he still need enough reaction speed to dodged the attack.

For the second feat, we have no idea when the Asura Path started moving in relation to how close Kakashi was to attacking the Deva Pain. I don't have a problem with accepting that Pain is faster than Kakashi, but I think you're overselling it a little.

Even if you assume both moved at the same time (wich should be the safest assumption to do), Asura Path still needed to cover a lot of meters while Kakashi's Raikiri needed to cover centimeters, a meter if you highball. Pain is faster than Kakashi and should get an "At least".
 
@M3X; sure, he does have enough reaction speed but the distance he moved to dodge in that feat and the distance Kakashi had to swing through to hit him aren't that dissimilar. That puts him at a slightly faster speed than Kakashi for that feat.

I'm fine with saying Pain should get an "At least Massively Hypersonic+" for his rating.
 
Regarding Sasuke's ratings, I think we should save his in the sandbox until we discuss the high tiers since he's currently affected by them.

I don't think Kisame's statement is good support for Itachi's speed specifically and should be removed.
 
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