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Naruto Speed Revisions and Scaling II

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Jvando

Jvando

VS Battles
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Intro

Continued from here

We've already discussed the low tiers, mid-tiers, and top-mid tiers till the thread was nearly full. Now we will discuss the high tiers, top tiers, and God tiers.

Others

High Tiers
Characters to scales above Mid Tiers:

Everyone here scales to Sub-Relativistic, via Might Guy's Gate multiplier with Kakashi's Mach 2935 feat putting them at a nice 1.67% SoL which would mean they are at least Sub-Relativistic likely much higher with the other Gates that Guy uses (The 5x multiplier is only stated with the first gate and the other gates increase speed and power to an unknown degree)

The 5x multiplier for Gate Guy and Gate Lee was accepted here

Top Tiers
Characters who scales above and are faster than the previous Tier :

Everyone here scales to Relativistic Speeds (28% of SoL), seeing Madara's reaction to and defense of Tenso-no-Jutsu. There's no Outlier here and I will explain:

  1. Madara proved to be able to play and was extremely casual against the Kages. Ay's fastest punch was simply blocked and called "fast" by Madara while he was distracted by Mei Terumi's Jutsu. At all times, Madara is playing with them.
  2. Even when Onoki used his weight-reducing jutsu to make Ay get much faster and attack at full speed and Mei try to obstruct his vision with fog, Madara just wasn't surprised.
  3. Madara is one of the fastest Top Tiers on the verse. With only other Top Tiers being able to rival him.
That is, it is quite obvious that no one there could keep up with Madara and he did not fight at any serious moment receiving a few attacks just to "show them" something.

God Tiers
Characters that scales far above any Top Tier :

God tiers scale to FTL up to 2.88c and other calculations.

Conclusion
High Tiers are at least Sub-Relativístic (1.67% of SoL) via the Gate Multipliers.

Top Tiers scales above then with Madara performing a Relativístic Feat (28% of SoL).

God Tiers scale above Top Tiers at to FTL (2.88c)

SOME EXTRA POINTS

  • No Mid Tier will scale to Sub-Relativistic, thus making Hebi Sasuke's statements about Kirin and Amaterasu consistent.
 
I agree with everyone for the high tier but I want to know the actual reason for why Tsunade and base Pervy sage are scaling. I didn't include Oro because his reason is obvious
 
We should start from where the sub-rel comes.

  • Guy in his 6th Gates is "At least Sub-Relativistic, likely far higher"
That's because in the first Gate, he is already Sub-Relativistic, and the upper Gates amp his speed even more.

  • KCM and Kakashi scales to 6th Gates Guy
As both could keep up with him, as well as White Mask Obito.

  • From KCM, we can scale Tobirama, then Minato. And we can work from here
 
Nobody updated Kakashi's key for Pre-War Arc Kakashi.

As for Might Guy, I believe using the Eight Gates multipliers would only make him Sub-Relativistic since we don't know how much the other Gates increase his speed.

Mach 14677.88 is 1.67% the speed of light. Maybe we can say that he's "At least Sub-Relativistic", but once again I don't see any need to say that he's likely far higher than that.

I'm pretty sure that Guy fought against "White Mask Obito" while in base too. This gives me great doubt towards saying that War Arc Kakashi has equal combat speed to 6th Gates Guy.
 
And I belive he should have an "likely far higher". In 6th at least. 6 > 5 > 4 > 3 > 2 > 1 = Sub Rel.

"Oh but we don't know how much the Gates amp the speed"

And it doesnt matter. 6th is far, far above the first, and the amps should be far greater than the first. You havent showed any evidence for why he shouldnt
 
Jvando; when he used his nunchucks against him. I don't think we actually say Guy fight Obito directly using the Six Gates except for his opening kick when he arrived on the battlefield.

After that he just used Gates against the Edo Jin's and base against Obito directly.
 
In this case, I agree with M3X.

Releasing any gate above the first increases the speed substantially. Just look at Lee's speed with the 1st and 2nd gate and what happened with Gaara with the 3rd and 4th Gate in the classic.

I think a "likely far higher" works well for the 6th gate and everyone who scales to it, in this case.
 
might guy was not fast enough to tag Obito ever lol. Obito literally was about to absorb might guy in base form. He even was more than fast enough to casually catch Guy's weapons and absorb them. Base guy was not close to being able to attack guy after he went back solid as well.
 
Well, aside from in reaction speed I don't believe Kakashi and Obito should scale directly to Guy with 6 Gates active. That just becomes far too inconsistent.
 
Tell me how it becomes inconsistent instead of just saying it's inconsistent.

For one it's actually consistent because of the fact that Kakashi could keep up with the V2 jins as well

It's consistent for Obito who could keep up with KCM Naruto.

It's not inconsistent. Nowhere would the scaling be messed up like you believe it would be
 
I remember Kakashi being able to track and fight the Jinchuurikis V2.
And Kakashi can easily fight Obito.
Since Obito, if I'm not mistaken, fought and keep up against Naruto KCM.

Obito is constantly ported as a great fighter and at least comparable to Kakashi.

I don't think it's inconsistent.
 
@AstralKing7; I don't have a lot of time tonight so I'll do a proper breakdown of it tomorrow. In the meantime if you want to add to the sandbox, feel free.
 
Yeah I forgot about V2 Jins, who could keep up with both Kakashi and Guy, as well with KCM Naruto. Obito and Kakashi should for sure scale all around
 
Hmm, I'm rethinking having Pain only scale to "At least MHS+" especially after some offside discussion.

This scales back to 4-Tails nard who almost killed Jiraiya and, while we don't know the circumstances, if Jiraiya was significantly faster, he would have dodged. 4-Tails nard should be at least = to Ver 2 Jins who I have at Sub-Rel for fighting against KCM Nardo whose ~ Lighting Cloak Ay who is ~ Ver 1 Bee who is > Kisame who is > 30% Kisame who is ~ 6th gate guy. It's been shown that the Nine-Tails is superior to the other Bijuu so Naruto's Version 2 four tailed form shouldn't be too far off from the other Bijuu's version 2.

This would make SM Naruto, Jiraiya, and Pain Sub-Rel. Kakashi could have Sub-Rel perception for being able to someone engage in combat against pain though he really didn't do much plus that Pain was weakened.

Thoughts?
 
You literally said KN4 is equal in speed with KCM, wich I disagree. KN4 shouldn't scale
 
Trueee hmm. It just feels weird that Naruto's Ver 2 four tails is slower than the Edo Jin's
 
As an aside, Danzō and Shisui should be At least MHS+ and MHS+ respectively. They have no concrete reasoning to scale to sub-Rel IMO
 
Jvando said:
As an aside, Danzō and Shisui should be At least MHS+ and MHS+ respectively. They have no concrete reasoning to scale to sub-Rel IMO
Click to expand...
If MS Sasuke scales to Sub-Rel, then danzo would scale as.well. im fine with Shisui scaling to MHS+.
 
it would make sense that his V2 is comparable to the edo jins

buuuut the edo jins where being directly controlled by Obito, so there is that
 
The point about edo jins is true.

MS Sasuke has Sub-Rel perception so Danzō doesn't necessarily have to be sub-Rel
 
Jvando said:
The point about edo jins is true.

MS Sasuke has Sub-Rel perception so Danzō doesn't necessarily have to be sub-Rel
Click to expand...
I believe he was able to catch sasuke off guard a few times, ill have to reread that part.
 
Konan and Danzo are fine. Shisui I feel like should be elaborated more; we can scale him to Danzo I think because he managed to escape from him after he lost his eye (If I'm remembering rightly). I think that Tobi / Obito should just be MHS+ for now like Konan until we look into the High Tiers more.

Naruto's, Pain's, Killer B's and Kisame's changes should be fine to put in for now.

Sasuke's shouldn't be applied until we discuss the High Tiers more.

I'm still against the Kisame statement being used as support for Itachi being "At least MHS+". I think it would be better if he was just MHS+ for the rest of his justification since that key is for the living/sick Itachi, right?
 
The kisame justification is refering to sick Itachi, would it be better to say "Guy had to activate the 6th gate in order to defeat him"
 
@Wrath of Itachi; when did Guy have to activate the 6th Gate in order to beat Itachi?
 
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