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Naruto speed and light, yet again.

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I mean you said our ony argument was the beam of light...which is very much not the case and is only the tiny bit of the argument.

My main argument is that it is scientific tach which is said to use real phenomenom for their abilities and this is evidenced by a photon gun which is also a scientific tool.

The beam of light is to show that regardless of what it is made of, it is light.

The rest is to show that it is real light.
 
I literally explained later months after that I was wrong and it was volume guide books that were coming out. It's not my fault if you kept believing wrong information that I said myself was wrong

I even told knowledgeable members this

Lml nvm in that link I even said it was a volume description for characters
 
@Sigurd

I don't quite understand what you are saying, Sigurd ...

  • The first contradiction ... There is no anti-feat on the page that says a laser needs to disperse like a real laser. No one who doesn't study the subject knows how a laser is scattered, and I'm sure no author will follow the line, everything physics says. Most only know that a laser is made of light and that it goes straight. Otherwise, most feats in fiction are ignored.
  • The second contradiction ... There really isn't something wrong. Kizaru's lasers explode and have been accepted as SoL, thanks to other evidence.
  • The third ... is refuted by the manga itself. And waiting for databook can literally lead to months or even years of waiting.
And I don't understand how affecting cells is a problem. This is only hax.

  • In contrast, we have it being called a beam of light.
  • We have the fact that it comes from a technology, that uses photons. And if you use photons, in 99% of cases, it already meets the speed of light criterion, just like any case that uses "sunlight". In fact, being photons, it automatically has the speed of light unless it is said by the author not to.
  • And we have the fact that this technology uses real matter.
In fact, I think someone should provide some really problematic point, rather than just using data that at most seems to me extremely forced.
 
@Rocker

Yeah that is only your hard evidence.

I guess it has 2 criteria which is being called light, and if delta's eye is accepted as a realistic source but that's about it. It has no evidence of it being called light speed especially since Kawaki even reacted to it and outpaced Naruto if I remember correctly. Himawari saw it too although helpless. It has no proof of refraction nor reflection so it's 2/5 criteria filled. I don't see how what I said was wrong.
 
Kawaki is used as an example of "The laser isn't LS because he reacted to it, anti feat" until something confirm the laser is in fact LS, then it would be outlier.

Watch it happens
 
Are people still bringing up Kawaki saving Hima!?

The same arc where Boruto tanked a punch from delta.

Let's just get staff here because obviously no one is taking this seriously
 
MostPowerfull said:
Kawaki is a simple case of Outlier ... Unless you think he is comparable in speed to Naruto SOSP.
Click to expand...
That and if it comes from a realistic source, i.e. it being concentrated photons, then that's plenty evidence of it bei Nd Light speed. We don't need things to be hand fed to us when we can come to reasonable conclusions based on other information presented. Not ever accepted laser feat was explicitly stated to be light speed or shown to refract/reflect
 
In fact, this feat is no different from other SoL feats.

For example, a character who uses sunbeams to attack, in an LN, for example. It is not claimed to have SoL, but is accepted as SoL simply because it is light and because it is natural / realistic source.
 
Bulbasaur's Solar Beam is light speed, not because it was stated to be lightspeed, but because it absorbs light from the sun. A laser that is called light and go in a straight line is perfectly usable, it doesnt need to meet all criteria, that's absurd
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
@Rocker
Yeah that is only your hard evidence.

I guess it has 2 criteria which is being called light, and if delta's eye is accepted as a realistic source but that's about it. It has no evidence of it being called light speed especially since Kawaki even reacted to it and outpaced Naruto if I remember correctly. Himawari saw it too although helpless. It has no proof of refraction nor reflection so it's 2/5 criteria filled. I don't see how what I said was wrong.
Click to expand...
1. kawaki did not actually outpace Naruto, Naruto outpaced both Kawaki and the laser, he got to Hima while Kawaki only got in front of her.

2. Kawaki being that fast is not an outlier, he has had no antifeats, not saying he is comparable to Naruto but he is a new characters who is also made up of ninja tools and was specifically stated to be fast by team 7 in his first showing.

3. Hima did not see anything she screamed after being thrown.
 
Just to remember that being called 'beam of light' and go to straight line isn't enough (I know it isn't the case here, it's just to answer the comments above who use only those two criteria)

Staff isn't here yet?
 
some staff have commented and accepted it 1 neutral, 1 disagreed, others have not for some reason.
 
Need more staff here because at this point no one can debunk delta's lasers not being light speed. They have more than enough evidence based on how we handle other verses
 
Well that's all I had to say, I'll just reiterate that the evidence being used here actually only reaffirms it is light. If a chakra absorbing eye also counts as a realistic source of light which I doubt then that means 2/5 criteria met or 1/5.

Being straight isn't a criteria of acceptance only a criteria for discussion as stated on the page.

"Please note that the opposite of these criteria do not prove a beam is at lightspeed, merely that it could be, should it meet the first list of criteria. Should there be great evidence in favor of the light being real or lightspeed, comparably minor showing against it being real can be overruled."
 
And the criteria were always just a reinforcment of my point, also what you say about the criteria applies to most accepted lasers.
 
If it is light, i.e. photons, then that is automatically Light Speed unless expressly stated otherwise. A Photons statement is about as definitive as one is going to get
 
I'm aware but what I mean it this thread only reinforces a single criteria.

  • The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
  • The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror
  • The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources
  • It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source
  • It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera
 
  • The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
  • The beam reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror
  • The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources
  • It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source Ô£ö
  • It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera Ô£ö
not 1 but 2 ?

should be more more than enough
 
It does have it origin as a realistic source of light, ninja tools produce actual matter. this is stated in the latest chapter (and shown in the novel with a photon gun) and it is also stated to be a beam of light, being actual matter would make it release photons which would be light speed.
 
@Sigurd

Being originated from technology and defined as beam of light, as it uses real matter/photons, it fits exactly 2 criteria, although one comes from bonuses:

  • It is stated to be made of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source. And obviously, have the lightspeed.
  • It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera
Unless you want to revise all verses that accept "sunbeams" and anything like that.
 
The criteria are more guidelines than absolute rule of law. Some of those criteria are worth more than others, for example, just being called light speed isn't enough and just called light isn't enough but having both is usually plenty.

At the same time, it coming from a natural source is plenty for it to be considered light speed such as it coming from the sun or a flashlight. We wouldn't need a statement or anything else if that was the case.

This is a similar scenario. We can extrapolate that it's made of photons based on the evidence presented and as such that is plenty information for it to be considered light speed.
 
I'm pretty much that isn't how it works or else being called light is enough. The criteria is most definitely absolute because of the countless light attacks in fiction. A confirmation on how much "few" is would be nice.


@Omimi

Notice I said 2/5 or 1/5 right? depending on if the chakra absorbing eye is accepted as a realistic source of light.
 
Notice how I literally said that just being called light isn't enough? It depends on the source and and if there is something definitive like it being called photons and such. Other criteria will need more evidence
 
Light is only photons dude, this is only 1 criteria. Obviously light is pretty much light speed but we have artificial criteria for fiction to reaffirm that it truly is light speed.

you're essentially stretching out "it's light" > so it's obviously Lightspeed without doubt. Which kinda takes away the point of the criteria. But if I'm actually wrong about how the criteria work an admin or cal dude could free to correct me. But from what I'm getting from the post damage made it absolutely doesn't work that way.
 
Why do you think we automatically accept LS from something that say comes from the sun? Or a flashlight? Or a camera? Do we need it to be spelled that it travels at light speed?

Calling something "light" and saying "X is made of photons" are completely different things. Anything can be called "light" but have absolutely nothing else going for it. Obviously, we won't accept that. Something being photons, however, is more definitive and as long as nothing else is contradicted, then it should also be fine to use so don't make it sound like I'm stretching anything.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Light is only photons dude, this is only 1 criteria. Obviously light is pretty much light speed but we have artificial criteria for fiction to reaffirm that it truly is light speed.
you're essentially stretching out "it's light" > so it's obviously Lightspeed without doubt. Which kinda takes away the point of the criteria. But if I'm actually wrong about how the criteria work an admin or cal dude could free to correct me. But from what I'm getting from the post damage made it absolutely doesn't work that way.
Click to expand...
Photons are automatically lightspeed it is how they work, the only real problem is whether it is real light or not.
 
I don't think that we need to be overly picky regarding this. It seems to make sense.
 
"Realistic source of light" is definitely debateable seeing as we're assuming it being made from scientific ninja tools means it must be shooting real photons.

There is no direct connection between these photon guns mentioned in the novel and Delta, other than the assumption that since one scientific ninja tool can seemingly shoot photons that Delta's beams produced by her scientific ninja tools must be made out of photons too.
 
The connection is that they are both scientific tools, one is confirmed to shoot photons and the evidence on the latest chapter states that scientific tools do indeed use real matter.
 
As I said earlier, these rules are more guidelines to follow but are not absolute. We can use our critical thinking and reasoning skills to come up with our own definitive conclusions based on the information presented.

Certain things are absolute like light not bending and stuff, but again, we already know that.
 
Rocker1189 said:
The connection is that they are both scientific tools, one is confirmed to shoot photons and the evidence on the latest chapter states that scientific tools do indeed use real matter.
Click to expand...
No, it's stated in the last chapter that Boro's scientific ninja tools produce real viruses whereas no known jutsu can.

Everything else beyond that is speculative.
 
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