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Naruto: Shippuden Akatsuki (+others) AP upgrade

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Foliedeux said:
Hidan doesn't need to scale to the 2 Tails at all, and It's implied Kakuzu does all their heavy lifting. For all we know Hidan could've just been an immortal distraction to take attacks while Kakuzu blasted the 2 tails. Hidans stats don't need to be upgraded and its implied that Pain is in a completely different tier entirely than him, although I would argue he would still be somewhat combat able in comparison to Jinchuuriki, even if not their completed Bijuu states.

Kakuzu is without a doubt Bijuu Level, and many shinobi like the 4th Raikage and Rasa are as well. Kakuzu has no hax other than potential extra lives, and we know that Matatabi and Yugito were fast enough to face and tag him, meaning Kakuzu was taking attacks from them together and surviving as well as blasting them back with raw attack potency. You'd have to discuss whether or not the 2 Tails got stronger in the war, which is never narratively implied. If anything it's implied they are weaker against Madara due to having no Shinobi to harness their powers, and them getting stronger would surely be something Obito or any other character in existence would note.. which they don't. Seems like a stretch.

How other characters stack up against Bijuu is debatable. But I'd definitely say Kakuzu, Pain, and Obito are without a doubt to even the most obvious of standards.
Obito being greater than the attack that would've damaged the 4th Raikage who was greater than an 8 Tails Jinchuuriki in power. Kakuzu who directly had to brawl with a 2 Tailed Jinchuuriki that could tag him, and Pain who is relative if not superior to Kakuzu and is stated to be the overall strongest in the Akatsuki.

Overall their purpose is to overpower these beings, regardless of their abilities to shoot MASSIVE Bijuu Bombs or whatever, brawler type members should scale. Especially if their speed isn't fast enough to dodge all of their attacks (Like Kakuzu)

At absolute worse, Kakuzu's durability should be upgraded.
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Mostly Agree. The thing with Hidan is that Akatsuki members are outright stated stronger than Bijuu. Hidan also is able to take attacks from Kakuzu.

Hidan also said he wanted to fight/kill Pain. Lol
 
I'm going to have to leave for a short while, so If any new arguments are brought up or another staff member has a problem I'll be sure to respond ASAP :)
 
Wuke said:
Mostly Agree. The thing with Hidan is that Akatsuki members are outright stated stronger than Bijuu. Hidan also is able to take attacks from Kakuzu.

Hidan also said he wanted to fight/kill Pain. Lol
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"Stronger than Jinchuuriki" doesn't need to imply they are stronger than every perfect Jinchuuriki ever. Unless you think Hidan > Killer Bee. Cringe.

Yes, Hidan has insane durability, it's his gig. I agree that all of them are Bijuu Level, but your argumentation isn't optimal nor do I think it's important by this sites standards that Hidan be upgraded.

I also could say I want to fight Jon Jones because I hate his attitude, does that mean I'd win?
 
Foliedeux said:
Hidan doesn't need to scale to the 2 Tails at all, and It's implied Kakuzu does all their heavy lifting. For all we know Hidan could've just been an immortal distraction to take attacks while Kakuzu blasted the 2 tails. Hidans stats don't need to be upgraded and its implied that Pain is in a completely different tier entirely than him, although I would argue he would still be somewhat combat able in comparison to Jinchuuriki, even if not their completed Bijuu states.

Kakuzu is without a doubt Bijuu Level, and many shinobi like the 4th Raikage and Rasa are as well. Kakuzu has no hax other than potential extra lives, and we know that Matatabi and Yugito were fast enough to face and tag him, meaning Kakuzu was taking attacks from them together and surviving as well as blasting them back with raw attack potency. You'd have to discuss whether or not the 2 Tails got stronger in the war, which is never narratively implied. If anything it's implied they are weaker against Madara due to having no Shinobi to harness their powers, and them getting stronger would surely be something Obito or any other character in existence would note.. which they don't. Seems like a stretch.

How other characters stack up against Bijuu is debatable. But I'd definitely say Kakuzu, Pain, and Obito are without a doubt to even the most obvious of standards.
Obito being greater than the attack that would've damaged the 4th Raikage who was greater than an 8 Tails Jinchuuriki in power. Kakuzu who directly had to brawl with a 2 Tailed Jinchuuriki that could tag him, and Pain who is relative if not superior to Kakuzu and is stated to be the overall strongest in the Akatsuki.

Overall their purpose is to overpower these beings, regardless of their abilities to shoot MASSIVE Bijuu Bombs or whatever, brawler type members should scale. Especially if their speed isn't fast enough to dodge all of their attacks (Like Kakuzu)

At absolute worse, Kakuzu's durability should be upgraded.
Click to expand...
Bee states Yugito was stronger as an Edo but it really doesn't change much from earlier
 
Overall their purpose is to overpower these beings, regardless of their abilities to shoot MASSIVE Bijuu Bombs or whatever, brawler type members should scale. Especially if their speed isn't fast enough to dodge all of their attacks (Like Kakuzu)
Click to expand...

Hard disagree. Nowhere are they stated to overpower Biju.

At absolute worse, Kakuzu's durability should be upgraded.
Click to expand...

Also disagree. There is nothing to scale Yugito's transformation to; she is massively smaller than the 2-Tails is during the War arc, and is not shown to have AP anywhere close to the Biju Bomb.
 
Immortal360 said:
Bee states Yugito was stronger as an Edo but it really doesn't change much from earlier
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He only states she feels different, but that's not in reference to the Wiki's claim that the Bijuu grew in strength. Even if Yugito is personally amped by Obito.
 
Foliedeux said:
"Stronger than Jinchuuriki" doesn't need to imply they are stronger than every perfect Jinchuuriki ever. Unless you think Hidan > Killer Bee. Cringe.

Yes, Hidan has insane durability, it's his gig. I agree that all of them are Bijuu Level, but your argumentation isn't optimal nor do I think it's important by this sites standards that Hidan be upgraded.

I also could say I want to fight Jon Jones because I hate his attitude, does that mean I'd win?
Click to expand...
Nah, it doesn't have to. I'm more so worried about the Bijuu part specifically, because excluding Kurama, I and the wiki itself acknowledge the rest as being relative. The Hidan wanting to fight pain was kinda of a meme lol. I'm not so worried about Hidan, but there is definitely sufficent reasoning to establish him at that level.
 
Damage3245 said:
Hard disagree. Nowhere are they stated to overpower Biju.



Also disagree. There is nothing to scale Yugito's transformation to; she is massively smaller than the 2-Tails is during the War arc, and is not shown to have AP anywhere close to the Biju Bomb.
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How does Kakuzu fight the 2 Tails that is fast enough to tag him without being durable or strong enough to fight it?

What narrative implication is made that her size is relevant to her power or that she grew in strength? What statement is made by the cast to say this is the case?
 
Damage3245 said:
Hard disagree. Nowhere are they stated to overpower Biju.



Also disagree. There is nothing to scale Yugito's transformation to; she is massively smaller than the 2-Tails is during the War arc, and is not shown to have AP anywhere close to the Biju Bomb.
Click to expand...
I already explained why if anything, the Bijuu's should be weaker. They are nerfed by the Edo Tensei, and I've provided examples of Kishimoto drawing things inconsistently to scale.
 
Damage3245 said:
The Biju aren't brought back by the Edo Tensei.
Click to expand...
Ok... I'm starting to think you haven't watched Naruto...
download_8.jpg
 
Wuke said:
Well, for one, Akatsuki members are stated to be stronger than them anyway. And two, the akatsuki literally kill stronger variants of those jinchuurikis. LOL
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And what does this have to do with me correcting your misconception.

When you posted that the Bijuu were brought back by Edo Tensei?
 
So Sasori is Bijuu level... the same Sasori who uses puppets that got smashed and tagged by Sakura and Chio's puppets?... How is Sasori suppose to be Bijuu level.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
So Sasori is Bijuu level... the same Sasori who uses puppets that got smashed and tagged by Sakura and Chio's puppets?... How is Sasori suppose to be Bijuu level.
Click to expand...
For one, Sasori is holding back in the fight. Chiyo is also very strong, having fought the likes of Hanzo and Tsunade. Sakura would've died instantly if Chiyo hadn't been controlling her, plus, Oro and Sasori capture the 5 tails iirc
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
So Sasori is Bijuu level... the same Sasori who uses puppets that got smashed and tagged by Sakura and Chio's puppets?... How is Sasori suppose to be Bijuu level.
Click to expand...
Sasori > 3rd Kazekage > Rasa ~ War Arc Gaara > 1 Tails

Rasa brawled the one tails with his Golden Sand and sealed him away constantly.

Sasori losing to Chiyo and Sakura aren't anti-feats. Chiyo could dodge KCM Shadow Clone Naruto's Rasenshuriken while an Edo-Tensei and Sakura was specifically trained to hit harder than anybody else while having high evasion so she doesn't die as a medic. Her only feats are losing to Kakashi, (Who can brawl Kakuzu) and helping take down Sasori before her 100 healings. She also scares Naruto.
 
Arcker123 said:
Sorry but what’s the proof the bijuu got stronger during the war?
Click to expand...
None. They say it's due to size, and that Kurama was smaller when he had less chakra, which is true, but this assumes kishimoto always draws the bijuu to scale, as well as the fact that bijuu's obviously dont use all of their chakra at once, and have a specific output.
 
Foliedeux said:
Sasori > 3rd Kazekage > Rasa ~ War Arc Gaara > 1 Tails

Rasa brawled the one tails with his Golden Sand and sealed him away constantly.

Sasori losing to Chiyo and Sakura aren't anti-feats. Chiyo could dodge KCM Shadow Clone Naruto's Rasenshuriken while an Edo-Tensei and Sakura was specifically trained to hit harder than anybody else while having high evasion so she doesn't die as a medic. Her only feats are losing to Kakashi, (Who can brawl Kakuzu) and helping take down Sasori before her 100 healings. She also scares Naruto.
Click to expand...
This. Right. Here.
 
Stop relying on anime filler for scaling these characters.
 
Wuke said:
Because Jinchuuriki's are stated to be stronger than Bijuu, so if we have Akatsuki>Alive Jinchuuriki's>Edo Jinchuuriki's, then you upscaled me
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Wow you got all of that from me essentially saying "Those aren't Bijuu though, those are the Jinchuriki" when you posted an image of the Jinchuriki and called them Bijuu
 
Wuke said:
For one, Sasori is holding back in the fight. Chiyo is also very strong, having fought the likes of Hanzo and Tsunade. Sakura would've died instantly if Chiyo hadn't been controlling her, plus, Oro and Sasori capture the 5 tails iirc
Click to expand...
Foliedeux said:
Sasori > 3rd Kazekage > Rasa ~ War Arc Gaara > 1 Tails

Rasa brawled the one tails with his Golden Sand and sealed him away constantly.

Sasori losing to Chiyo and Sakura aren't anti-feats. Chiyo could dodge KCM Shadow Clone Naruto's Rasenshuriken while an Edo-Tensei and Sakura was specifically trained to hit harder than anybody else while having high evasion so she doesn't die as a medic. Her only feats are losing to Kakashi, (Who can brawl Kakuzu) and helping take down Sasori before her 100 healings. She also scares Naruto.
Click to expand...
SO I'm getting two different answers regarding Sakura... either Sasori was holding back which should lower his durability and Sakura would've died without Chio, or Sakura was just that strong and fast. Which one is it.

Also, did we see how Sasori killed the 3rd Kazekage. He uses poison a lot so it doesn't mean he physically beat him.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
SO I'm getting two different answers regarding Sakura... either Sasori was holding back which should lower his durability and Sakura would've died without Chio, or Sakura was just that strong and fast. Which one is it.

Also, did we see hoe Sasori killed the 3rd Kazekage. He uses poison a lot so it doesn't mean he physically beat him.
Click to expand...
The former. Sasori scaling above is due to the fact he possesses the puppet, which can use the iron sand, which is why the third kazekage was >rasa
 
Damage3245 said:
Stop relying on anime filler for scaling these characters.
Click to expand...
The only anime filler is "Chiyo dodges Rasenshuriken from KCM Shadow Clone" but that is consistent with the manga since KCM Naruto fought her and Kimimaro and couldn't beat either of them. The anime also has good ties to being canon to the manga, which is its own argument.

Regardless I have formed strong cases not using the anime, the anime was only supporting evidence.
 
Also, did we see hoe Sasori killed the 3rd Kazekage. He uses poison a lot so it doesn't mean he physically beat him.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

So much speculative reasoning going on in this thread to justify these upgrades.
 
Wuke said:
The former. Sasori scaling above is due to the fact he possesses the puppet, which can use the iron sand, which is why the third kazekage was >rasa
Click to expand...
So then he's only 6-C with 3rd Kazekage/Iron Sand.
 
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